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Old 11-19-2008, 01:12 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
You didn't learn your lesson on young, skinny, point guards who can't shoot with Shaun Livingston?

Not that his failure was entirely his fault.
Apparently not. :D
It's him or a big and where we are in the order so far, it looks like him. The only big I would be entirely satsfied with is Thabeet, but I'm greedy and theres alot of basketball to be played.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:12 AM    (permalink
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Apparently not. :D
It's him or a big and where we are in the order so far, it looks like him. The only big I would be entirely satsfied with is Thabeet, but I'm greedy and theres alot of basketball to be played.
I like Rubio but I dont think he would be a good pick for the Clippers. I think Mike Taylor will do just fine. He can really push the ball up court and score. He provides a nice spark. He is just raw.

DeRozan wouldnt be a bad pick. I think he will be a stud but what would they do with Eric Gordan? Sit him? That would be tough to do after picking him so early last year.

SF is already taken. Thornton is going to be a future all star.

I think they need another big man. If we landed Blake Griffin, I would get a serious hard one. He is just the type of player the Clippers need. Camby isnt too great of an offensive threat. He is a stud on defense but not too great on offense. Kaman shows up some nights, like last night, and disappears on others. Another big man would really help the Clippers out.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think of Sam Young?
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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I watched the Memphis/Chattanooga game today and I'm really impressed with Robert Dozier. Very long and athletic. He reminds me a lot of a more polished Hakim Warrick. Probably a late 1st round pick at best though.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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I watched the Memphis/Chattanooga game today and I'm really impressed with Robert Dozier. Very long and athletic. He reminds me a lot of a more polished Hakim Warrick. Probably a late 1st round pick at best though.
You happen to see Jeremy Saffore of UTC in that game? He went to my high school. 7'2 center. He's not very good. At all.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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You happen to see Jeremy Saffore of UTC in that game? He went to my high school. 7'2 center. He's not very good. At all.
Don't think he played. Especially considering that Memphis killed them on the glass all game
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Don't think he played. Especially considering that Memphis killed them on the glass all game
He probably did play then. He's 7'2 and 225 lbs. Needs to put weight on baaaad.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think of Sam Young?
Very skilled and one of the more underrated prospects...probably will never be a star but he'll be a consistent contributor
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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DeMar Derozan has been awfully unimpressive so far this season. No diaper dandy.
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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James Harden with 33 points and 12 rebounds today!!!!
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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Top players so far this year.
Blake Griffin-Has been incredibly dominant this year. Best player in draft (Rubio is expected to not come out this year). Could be a more athletic Boozer/West type.
James Harden- Maybe the most advanced offensive player in this class. Has a chance to be a Ginobli/Roy type Shooting guard.
Hasheem Thabeet- One of the most athletic big man in the world right now. Will have a long career in the NBA with his shot blocking ability.
Stephen Curry- Is just as good of a shooter as Redick but has some PG skills and can play decent defense(Redick has the defensive ability of a cone).
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:31 AM    (permalink
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I wish Thabeet had a remotely NBA ready offensive game.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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I think Johnny Flynn will be this years DJ Augustin. Pure PG with an average offensive game who can probably step in and lead a team as a rookie. If the Wizards weren't looking to be a top 5 lock I'd love for them to get Flynn seeing how we have very little options when it comes to a real PG
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Any Penn State players that are any good?
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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What's everyone's view on GT forward Gani Lawal??? He's averaging 22 ppg and 11 rpg so far this season and was impressive last night against Penn State.
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Any pure SG/SF top 5 prospects? Ones that maybe have an outside shot?
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Any pure SG/SF top 5 prospects? Ones that maybe have an outside shot?
James Harden is legit!
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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please everyone stop giving the Bulls a guard...unless it's a guard who is a game changer, the Bulls will not draft one just so they can get rid of Hinrich/Gordon...they would still have 4 guards if we trade one of those

unless we trade Hinrich/Gordon AND Hughes, and receive a legitimate forward/center that can hold his own on offense and defense, they will not draft a guard unless he will have a game changing impact
Gordon is gone after this season. Thabo has been rarely played by Vinny. Hinrich doesnt appear like he will be around much longer. (constant trade rumors) So a SG is a big need. The only thing the Bulls have is Derrick Rose, every other position needs help.

My personal board for the Bulls looks like:
1:Blake Griffin
2:James Harden
3:Hasheem Thabeet- I really like him as he continues to improve.
After them I am not a fan of many of the other lottery guys right now. There is also Stephen Curry but I severely doubt that Vinny would like that.
Others:Josh Heytfelt, Jordan Hill, Jerome Jordan, Gerald Henderson


I like the Curry pick, but the other poster was right when he said that Vinny wants a bigger G to help Derrick. Budinger is not very good defensively so he is not the pick.
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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I will have a rather extensive first round mock posted sometime later tonight. It will have full explanations for every team. There are some risers, some fallers, some random talk, many picks you guys will object to, but you know the drill.

Would just like to point out that my mock drafts especially around this time are really off. Here the first 8 picks of the first full mock I did last year:

1: Miami Heat


Derrick Rose, PG, Memphis
Reasoning: Derrick Rose is probably the hottest name on draft radars right now, but I have had him pegged as the #1 pick all season long, even prior to this season, but him going the first pick makes more sense than ever. He will definitely not slip by the 2nd pick, and although Miami is the one of the spots where we could see Beasley going, I still think they will go Rose. Beasley will probably give you more immediate impact because of his scoring and rebounding but building a team around Rose, Wade, hopefully Marion and Haslem as well as Daequan Cook is pretty scary. If they are able to land Rose all they would need is a free agent addition of a solid big and they will be right back into the thick of things in the East. With Beasley I still see them as a lottery team. A team with zero chemistry and a little offensive movement.

Prospect Analysis: They used to say that the hardest thing to find in the NBA is a quality Center. I no longer think thatís true though. With the direction the NBA is pointing towards, you can win and be a contending playoff team with no real dominant inside force as long as you have good guard play. I think in fact the hardest thing to find is a real point guard. There are a handful of NBA teams who would have 10+ more wins every year if they had a special point running their team. Derrick Rose is one of the best point guard prospects I have seen in a very long time. There really are no holes in his game. Athletically he might be the most athletic pure point I have seen the past 10 years. He has uncanny vision especially in the open court. Offensively his athletic ability puts him on another level when driving to the hoop, as he can finish at the rim like a Dwayne Wade. His outside shot is solid. Defensively he has the skill set to be an all defensive performer. Great on ball guarding skills and understands how to play the passing lanes. As for negatives he sometimes plays with too much energy. Gets caught trying to do to much and needs to slow the game down. While with other players we will be talking about their attitude issues, Rose is quiet and laid back and has no record of disciplinary issues.

2: Seattle Sonics

Jerryd Bayless, PG, Arizona.
Reasoning: This pick will probably shock everyone. Iím sure that every single person in this situation would have this pegged as the Michael Beasley pick, but not only do I think Seattle should do this, I think they actually will seriously think about doing it. Their fans will kill them for not taking Beasley, but I just think they have so many pieces to build this franchise the right way, that Bayless would just be the perfect pick. Kind of like the Jeff Green pick. Not the sexiest pick, but in terms of building this team into a future title contender this would be the best pick. You get great character, and great leadership. The Sonics have long been very unhappy with their PG situation. Ridnour has been a pest to the team never performing consistently the way they want him to, even being benched often for Earl Watson. This year Ridnour finally began to show the type of player he is, a bench role player at best. Watson leaves a lot to be desired. Bayless would finally give them stability at the PG spot which they have long yearned for. Not only can Bayless run the point for them and create for Durant and crew, but Bayless can assert himself on offense and take control when need be, as the Sonics don't really have a guy like that aside from Kevin Durant. Jeff Green is taking strides to becoming an assertive offensive player but started the season rough becoming hesitant when he first missed shots. He was like this his first few years at Georgetown so I expect him to eventually break out of that. Secondly I just don't really like the Beasley fit in Seattle. Everyone knows this is Durants team and he needs his shots so I'm not sure how it would work with two guys who play so similarly offensively in terms of their need to handle the ball. Second his fit isn't great. Beasley is best suited to be a 3 in this league but with Durant and Jeff Green essentially SF's there wouldn't be much room. Plus they have other wings like Gelabele and Wilkins. Their front court isn't as bad as people think it is, and Beasley wouldn't be that great of an upgrade playing down low. If they can get Wilcox back, with Wilcox and Collison you have two very solid big men. Elson is a big body, Petro has shown potential, and there are always those losers Swift and Sene who you hope can one day do something. I just really think that this team would benefit more from taking a guy like Bayless.

Prospect Analysis: Bayless is one of my favorite players in all of College basketball. I had insisted since his junior year that I thought he was better than Mayo and I still stand by that. He is the next great combo guard. Arenas the best combo guard from Arizona, but Bayless has the PG skills that Arenas lacks. He plays the game with great intelligence and ease. For a guy who is a big time scorer, itís rare you say this but heís a team player and unselfish. He has great vision and real point guard skills. This isnít just a Ben Gordon who can ďrun pointĒ but isnít a point. Bayless can actually run a team. He has a great shot, especially his pull up. He can kind of do everything like Brandon Roy. Bayless will be productive from his first game in the NBA.

3: Minnesota Timberwolves:

Reasoning: No way Beasley would sneak past the Timberwolves. The Wolves would obviously be ecstatic if they landed Beasley. Yes they have Corey Brewer but he can play an array of positions. Beasley would like play a Hybrid 3-4 role helping out Al Jefferson down low. Beasley and Jefferson would form one of the best scoring and rebounding tandems, but a very suspect defensive duo.

Prospect Analysis: First of all for the positives he has the body of a man. He is the best inside outside threat in the draft. Currently he is dominating the college game inside both on the glass and offensively the post. There is no doubt that he is the most dominant college player out of the youngsters, but as an NBA prospect I have my worries. First to be mentioned is his past attitude issues. But since I havenít heard of anything recently on that, I wonít even talk about that as a negative. The first thing I notice about him is laziness. I donít know if itís because he thinks heís so much better than his competition, but I have never really ever seen him try his hardest or go all out. He seems to settle a lot of times at chucking up threes when he can drive and score every time down the court. My next issue with him is that Iím not really sure about his position. Everyone knows his future is at SF but I think his skills are better suited as a PF. I think these Carmelo comparisons arenít accurate. He doesnít have that fluidity or assertiveness on the perimeter to be Carmelo like. He is more like a big guy who can play the perimeter, rather than a perimeter player who can play down low. Again he has unreal athleticism and skills but there is just something about his game that scares me away. Kind of like Rudy G from a couple of years ago, but Rudy obviously has been able to shed away those problems.


4:New York Knicks

OJ Mayo, PG/SG, USC.
Reasoning: This just smells like a New York Knicks pick if I have ever smelled one. Personally just myself I have Mayo in the 7-15 range, but if a team falls in love with him, the Knicks easily could, then it would be no surprise to see him go in the top 5. First of all you have to consider the type of hype that OJ is coming in with and how that can be exploited into money playing at MSG. As for the actual team need, he can help the Knicks but won't really do anything to make them a playoff contender. Marbury is as good as gone, so he will fit in nicely kind of replacing whatever Marbury once brought to the Knicks. I don't really think he'll be better than Jamal Crawford but he'll put up some points, and give the Knicks fans some plays to ooh and ahh about.

Prospect Analysis: OJ Mayo was wayy overhyped too early in his career. He isnít the next LeBron or even Gilbert Arenas for that matter but he is still a lottery prospect. The thing I dislike about Mayo is that everything seems to have to be about him. Just the way he plays the game itís like heís trying to show off. He at times can completely ignore his teammates when heís trying to get his and even when heís passing itís almost like he only does it to try to prove that he can pass. He will make a great highlight pass but fail to make an important pass when it really matters. He kinda reminds me of Larry Hughes on steroids. But he shares those same negatives like Hughes. Stuck between the 1 and 2, poor shot selection, bad FG percentages, lots of turnovers, more about show than substance, etcÖ I think he will struggle like Hughes in his first few years truly finding who he is. However I am banking on him having a much better career than Larry Hughes, he will make a couple allstar games but will have on an off seasons.

5:Memphis Grizzlies

Deandre Jordan, C, Texas A&M
Reasoning: This is probably another pretty big shocker in my mock draft. I'm sure that most at this point in the draft would expect to see Galinari, Gordon, or Lopez. However I think this is the direction the Grizzlies will take, and should take. It is clear this team is in an obvious rebuilding mode after the Pau trade for cap room and draft picks, as well as their shopping of Mike Miller. I really think we could see the Grizzles move Mike Miller for further cap flexibility and young talent. They have a solid core built around their stud Rudy, and a 3 headed PG monster in Con, Crittenton, and Lowry. It is obvious that they need to go big man. Since they are in a rebuilding mode and obviously won't challenge in the west any time soon, I think they would be willing to wait on Jordan, and that this would be a very logical pick. He is a possible franchise big man and if all works out the Grizzlies would have a pretty impressive group of young players.

Prospect Analysis: (Wrote this prior to the season, but I still stand by many of my critiques) I know absolutely no one shares this same opinion as me, but I like better as a prospect than Greg Oden. But Iíll tell you why I think that. Physically Jordan is just as impressive as Oden. While Oden has a much stronger body he is a finished product. Jordan is still yet to grow into his body and is actually longer. What separates them though is their fluidity. Oden is mechanic and robotic and a slower mover, while Jordan runs the floor like a guard and doesnít have that 2 second change of direction adjustment that Oden and most other big men have. I think Andrew Bynum will be a perennial Allstar, where as Oden will be a good defender ala Dalambert but not much more. Oden will probably make the Allstar team because of his name but why I mention this is because I see a lot of Andrew Bynum in Deandre Jordan. And if he can maximize his potential I think he can be even better. Jordan is a great rebounded and shot blocker and very active on the offensive side, yet only taking smart shots. Mark my words, he will be the #1 overall pick in the 2008 NBA draft.
Updated Prospect Analysis: I'm sure after reading that many will blast me as you can all see how high I was on him prior to the season, and no I won't guarantee he will be the first pick anymore, lol, but I still think he is an excellent prospect. If you are willing to wait on the kid he could really develop into something very special.

6:Milwaukee Bucks:

Brook Lopez, C, Stanford.
Reasoning: I struggled a bit with this pick, but in the end it just really seemed like the most sensible pick. I thought at first giving them an athletic 3 man to guard and complement Redd well like Anthony Randolph or Gallinari, but when you think about it they are really pretty stacked at the 3 spot. I see Yi and Charlie V both as 3ish tweeners, so they need a true big man, and Lopez is probably the best big man available. Bogut has been solid but that's it, but really they could both be playing together. Wouldn't be a very versatile duo, but they would be pretty tough inside.

Prospect Analysis: I really didn't expect Lopez to make the kind of jump he did this year after a solid year last year. I didn't even have him on my preseason list of top 25 draft prospects because I didn't think he was going to declare, but he put together a very nice season. At times in the tournament playing unstoppable on the offensive side of the court. He obviously has nice size and length. Decent array of post moves, developed a nice hook shot, pretty good rebounder and decent defender. As for his negatives he isn't overly strong and could get pushed out of position in the NBA. Isn't a dominant scorer and has no real go to move. He also is not the greatest athlete and just stands in with the crowd in that aspect. I think Lopez will be a pretty solid pro, I don't even think he will ever make an allstar game, but if you are looking for a solid big who can start the next 10 years and average 15+8 than he is your guy.

7:LA Clippers:

Darren Collison, PG, UCLA.
Reasoning:This is probably the highest possible pick that Collison could go at, but I really like his fit with the Clippers. Other than already have home town fans, the Clippers are really in limbo with their PG situation. They really are in need of long term stability at the position. I know there is still a lot of hope in place in Shaun Livingston as he is recovering from his injury, but really how much can we expect from him. Prior to his injury he was still a big work in progress, so I think it would be foolish to bank on him as your PG of the future. If he comes back and develops into a shell of the player he could have been than good for the Clips, but they really do need a contingency plan. They are solid in the frontcourt with Kaman, Brand, and Thornton, so I see them going guard with this pick.

Prospect Analysis:He is one of my favorite players in college basketball. Lightning quick, scorers mentality while still getting his teammates involved. Good defender, there isnít much not to like about the kid. He is smallish and frail though and will also need to learn how to make an impact when you have to slow the game up and canít just go 100 mph at all times. Has long arms which makes him a pretty good defender. He is a very smart player, who will be solid but never spectacular.

8: Charlotte Bobcats

Kevin Love, PF, UCLA.
Reasoning: My string of surprise picks kind of continues. But this is just one of those picks that I can see the Bobcats making. In past drafts we know that they are into college proven players, (Okafor, Felton, May, Dudley), so Love seems like a logical pick. To be honest if he entered this draft I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan take Hansborough first round, lol. Anyways I don't think that Love's ceiling is that high, but he will definitely be a solid NBA contributer for a long time. A smart heady player, and very tough and gritty in the post. He is a very good passer and that will be needed hitting guys like JRich and Gerald Wallace. Basically in drafting Love, the Bobcats get what they wanted Sean May to be.

Prospect Analysis: Kevin Love is the most skilled bigman in the country. Heíd be a top 5 pick if it werenít for his lack of athleticism. Trust me he will have troubles getting his game off with the type of bigger, faster, stronger, and quicker guys he will face. His craftiness though will make him a very solid NBA player. On whatever team he eventually lands on he will definitely complement an athletic big very well.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
Any pure SG/SF top 5 prospects? Ones that maybe have an outside shot?
Yup Turtle Power is absolutely right. James Harden is such an impressive player. He should be a top 5 pick or the NBA scouts aren't doing their jobs.

Also I know it sounds bad, but it's kind of cool that the Wizards suck. As a draft dude it's boring when the Wizards are picking in the late teens, it's more like getting leftovers, top 5 though is exciting, it's a shame there aren't enough quality bigs.
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Yup Turtle Power is absolutely right. James Harden is such an impressive player. He should be a top 5 pick or the NBA scouts aren't doing their jobs.
It is such a shame that he is not getting the pub he really deserves. Not being a pre-season all-american was bad enough, but he has won PAC-10 player of the week for 2 weeks straight and I still feel he is a relative unknown across the country.

Also, anyone who hasn't seen him and wants to check him out can watch him against Nebraska this Saturday at 2pm EST.
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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It is such a shame that he is not getting the pub he really deserves. Not being a pre-season all-american was bad enough, but he has won PAC-10 player of the week for 2 weeks straight and I still feel he is a relative unknown across the country.

Also, anyone who hasn't seen him and wants to check him out can watch him against Nebraska this Saturday at 2pm EST.

He'll get his deserved recognition by the end of the year. When he drops 40 on UCLA the rest of the country will see the light.
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He'll get his deserved recognition by the end of the year. When he drops 40 on UCLA the rest of the country will see the light.
My favorite thing about Harden's game is how effortless it seems. He just drives to the basket not necessarily to score, but to get contact. He has such great court vision it is insane. I am starting to get sick of people wanting to draft Stephon Curry. The more I watch his game the less I see it translate to the NBA. He really is mostly a spot shooter with not much height. If he gets picked in the lottery by a team like JJ Reddick, that would be a failure of a pick in my eyes.
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My favorite thing about Harden's game is how effortless it seems. He just drives to the basket not necessarily to score, but to get contact. He has such great court vision it is insane. I am starting to get sick of people wanting to draft Stephon Curry. The more I watch his game the less I see it translate to the NBA. He really is mostly a spot shooter with not much height. If he gets picked in the lottery by a team like JJ Reddick, that would be a failure of a pick in my eyes.
I don't think anyone is mentioning Curry over Harden, but Curry is a lot better than Reddick. Better athlete, some actual PG skills, and most importantly is he can create his own shot and penetrate inside. Reddick was just run off screen. It's awfully funny how a guy with a shooting video sucks and shooting. Curry I would definitely take in the late teens- mid 20's if I needed some shooting and had a big point guard.
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I'm almost done with my first full mock of the season, stay tuned. I'm at pick 27 right now, only 3 more picks but my fingers are tired. I'm gonna eat dinner expect it to be posted in about an hour or so.
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