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View Poll Results: Who do you feel has/had the better D?
2000 Baltimore Ravens 120 88.89%
2008 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 11.11%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-19-2008, 12:14 PM    (permalink
RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
Here's the better point.

James Harrison. 15 sacks. 8 forced fumbles.

w.t.f.
whats your point you have a guy thats really good and that means nothing when your talking about total defense. were not comparing any one person
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Originally Posted by Metsox
mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
How much credit goes to Dick LeBeau for the defense, all of it? I know Tomlin is a defensive minded guy but his specialty isn't the 3-4 so I'm not sure if he has any hands on with what goes on.


And is LeBeau one of those guys who doesn't want a HC position? Find it hard to believe no one would want to give him that shot to implement his system elsewhere.
He had the job in cincy for a few years, didn't work out so well though
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LaMarr Woodley, Norse God of Thunder/Baby Jesus/Killer of all things QB, set an NFL record by getting multiple sacks in three consecutive playoff games. Don't **** with LaMarr.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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:)

Its kind of cool to see espn make an article about this. Ive said for several weeks now that this Steelers defense is the best Ive seen since that 2000 Ravens defense.

While i disagree with their top 10 rankings, I'll only discuss the 2 defenses being compared.

We cannot say the Steeler defense is better. Why? They haven't won the championship yet. If they can do what Baltimore did in the playoffs, then we can have this debate, until then, we cannot.

What stands out to me the most about Baltimore is their ridiculous run defense. 2.7 ypc? Are you kidding me?

And while I am a harsh critic of Ben Roethlisberger, he is infinitely better than Trent Dilfer, regardless of what the offensive statistics tell you.

Having that said, I absolutely love the Steelers defense, and I almost prefer it over the Ravens D (emphasis on almost). If I could build a dream defense in today's era, it would look like Pittsburgh's defense. I favor the 3-4, I favor their pass rush, and I favor their DC.

The #s are damn near equivalent, physicality is close, but to me the difference is this:

Ravens pass coverage > Pittsburghs

Pittsburgh pass rush > Ravens

They are closer than people think. I LOVE the package when they move Timmons outside and Harrison inside. Offenses have no idea who is coming.

I love this defense. I absolutely love this defense.

But do I love it more than that 2000 Raven unit? I don't know yet.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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i want to emphasize the point on "today's era"

bc this Steeler's defense is more adapt at handling the spread offense than Baltimore's was.

but that doesn't mean that its better. and I think Baltimore would have been fine against the spread as well bc they had such fast zone defenders and Ray in his prime could cover the entire middle of the field by himself.

I wish Haynesworth and KVB were healthy for this week's game. Bc Tennessee's D is a poor man's 2000 Ravens. It wouldve been nice to see those 2 go head to head.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
i want to emphasize the point on "today's era"

bc this Steeler's defense is more adapt at handling the spread offense than Baltimore's was.

but that doesn't mean that its better. and I think Baltimore would have been fine against the spread as well bc they had such fast zone defenders and Ray in his prime could cover the entire middle of the field by himself.

I wish Haynesworth and KVB were healthy for this week's game. Bc Tennessee's D is a poor man's 2000 Ravens. It wouldve been nice to see those 2 go head to head.
adams/siragusa vs haynesworth/kvb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsox
mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
John Wall
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES View Post
adams/siragusa vs haynesworth/kvb
adams/siragusa.

they rushed Boulware on passing downs anyway. so its like having best of both worlds.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
adams/siragusa.

they rushed Boulware on passing downs anyway. so its like having best of both worlds.
lol yea that team was sick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsox
mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
:)

Its kind of cool to see espn make an article about this. Ive said for several weeks now that this Steelers defense is the best Ive seen since that 2000 Ravens defense.

While i disagree with their top 10 rankings, I'll only discuss the 2 defenses being compared.

We cannot say the Steeler defense is better. Why? They haven't won the championship yet. If they can do what Baltimore did in the playoffs, then we can have this debate, until then, we cannot.

What stands out to me the most about Baltimore is their ridiculous run defense. 2.7 ypc? Are you kidding me?

And while I am a harsh critic of Ben Roethlisberger, he is infinitely better than Trent Dilfer, regardless of what the offensive statistics tell you.

Having that said, I absolutely love the Steelers defense, and I almost prefer it over the Ravens D (emphasis on almost). If I could build a dream defense in today's era, it would look like Pittsburgh's defense. I favor the 3-4, I favor their pass rush, and I favor their DC.

The #s are damn near equivalent, physicality is close, but to me the difference is this:

Ravens pass coverage > Pittsburghs

Pittsburgh pass rush > Ravens

They are closer than people think. I LOVE the package when they move Timmons outside and Harrison inside. Offenses have no idea who is coming.

I love this defense. I absolutely love this defense.

But do I love it more than that 2000 Raven unit? I don't know yet.
good post

one thing i find interesting, is that in today's game, we see more teams favoring the 3-4, and why not? the top sacking teams in the nfl are 3-4 teams... including guys like ware, porter, and harrison who are racking up sacks left and right in the 3-4 scheme...
but the ravens D was a standard 4-3... nothing tricky about them (a very different D we see today in the ravens "organized chaos"). The 2000 Baltimore D was strictly, line up your 11 vs. our 11 and we will dominate you no matter wat...<-- i like that
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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good post

one thing i find interesting, is that in today's game, we see more teams favoring the 3-4, and why not? the top sacking teams in the nfl are 3-4 teams... including guys like ware, porter, and harrison who are racking up sacks left and right in the 3-4 scheme...
but the ravens D was a standard 4-3... nothing tricky about them (a very different D we see today in the ravens "organized chaos"). The 2000 Baltimore D was strictly, line up your 11 vs. our 11 and we will dominate you no matter wat...<-- i like that
the Titans are the closest to it in that sense.

The 3-4 is just a more versatile D, and it disguises blitz packages better. Its also the hardest D to build up though. So it has its pros and cons.

One thing I remember about Baltimore's D: when i saw it back then, i remember telling myself "i don't know if anyone can score on these guys"

i don't have that same sentiment with this Steeler D yet.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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2000 Ravens D no question
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
10.3 PPG

imo thats the only thing i need to know. How many yards they allowed, i dont really care. if my team only needs to score a TD and a FG to tie a game its unreal
Right because when the offense turns the ball over on our own 20 and the d holds them to a field goal its the defense's fault....also we are playing with the worst punter in the nfl and are lucky to have him kick it 25 yards. points are skewed by field position, yards shows what the defense actually gives up.
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Right because when the offense turns the ball over on our own 20 and the d holds them to a field goal its the defense's fault....also we are playing with the worst punter in the nfl and are lucky to have him kick it 25 yards. points are skewed by field position, yards shows what the defense actually gives up.
yea but the ravens had incredible redzone def that year i still havent found the stats for that yet ive been looking. but i remember that year and we would force turnovers or make them kick fgs
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Originally Posted by Metsox
mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES View Post
the ravens def dominated in the playoffs

against the broncos we won 21-3
againsst the titans 24-10
against the raiders 16-3


THEN BEAT DOWN THE GIANTS 34-7 IN THE SUPERBOWL
Exactly, until Pitt does anything close to that in the playoffs, this is really a stupid argument.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Right because when the offense turns the ball over on our own 20 and the d holds them to a field goal its the defense's fault....also we are playing with the worst punter in the nfl and are lucky to have him kick it 25 yards. points are skewed by field position, yards shows what the defense actually gives up.
Absolutely terrible... while I agree that stats are not everything in football, lending credence to yards allowed in measure of a defense is absolutely the wrong measuring stick.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Until the Steelers D wins a championship, then I go 2000 Ravens D, all the way.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Interesting fact: James Farrior was 218lbs. during the Dallas game. He's been playing at around 220 or under all year. He's having a great year too. That's around what Jack Lambert played at 30 years ago.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08354/936233-66.stm
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Can I give this a bizzump? I still expect Ravens to reign supreme, but the Steelers defense was nearly #1 in every category in a year where the league has seen the most scoring ever, they won the Super Bowl despite not great offensive play or a running game. I say we reopen this discussion!
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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I still think the Ravens are better. And it was the offense in the end that won it for the Steelers after a little breakdown by the d
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:05 PM    (permalink
Shane P. Hallam
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Maybe in the Super Bowl, but they did hold that Cardinals offense for 3 quarters, including a 100 yard TD to end the half.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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The Superbowl pretty much takes the Steelers out of this discussion. Their defense really didn't play all that well outside of Harrison's TD.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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I can see it, though they did dominate three quarters. I can see the argument against though! But I do think it is a big difference in terms of who these defenses faced in the SB.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Every game that year you legitimately thought the Ravens would shut out the opponent. No one ever thought that about the Steelers D.
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

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Old 02-08-2009, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Baltimore, and it's not that close. This year's Pittsburgh secondary wasn't amazing. The front 7 is pretty nasty, but i'd still take that Ravens defense any day of the week.
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Old 02-08-2009, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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I can see it, though they did dominate three quarters. I can see the argument against though! But I do think it is a big difference in terms of who these defenses faced in the SB.
Yeah.


Kerry Collins and that fearsome NYG offense.

Or Kurt Warner and that Arizona offense.
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Yeah.


Kerry Collins and that fearsome NYG offense.

Or Kurt Warner and that Arizona offense.
Yeah the one that helped put a 40 burger against the Vikings in the NFC Title game that year.
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