Jets coach Mangini will not return - Page 4

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

yeah i agree that he's also at fault for the run game not being utilized. but his mistakes are so correctable. the issues raised just don't warrant the guy getting fired imo.

If poor coaching and the team falling apart against sub .500 teams and division rivals isn't a reason to fire a coach, what is?

I mean, come on. As much as Steelers fans loved to criticize Faneca, he really did make the night and day difference he was expected to. Last year D'Brickashaw Ferguson blamed his woes on having to cover Adrian Clarke's ***. As it turns out, that was apparently true.

All of the additions the Jets made this past offseason fell into either one of two categories.

1. Improvements. Damien Woody, Calvin Pace, Brett Favre (yes, Favre was an improvement over what we had last year).
2. Drastic Improvements. Alan Faneca and Kris Jenkins.

Jughead10 · 12-29-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

1. Improvements. Damien Woody, Calvin Pace, Brett Favre (yes, Favre was an improvement over what we had last year).

But he wasn't an improvement over what the Dolphins had this year. Favre is more of a reason you aren't in the playoffs than the coach. His play over the last 5 games was horrible. Something like 2 TDs and 9 INTs in that span. And you guys certainly didn't play any real hard opponents in those games.

captainjack27 · 12-29-2008, 03:24 PM

Mangini I don't think should have been fired. The biggest mistake the jets made was getting brett favre hands down.

keylime_5 · 12-29-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainjack27

Mangini I don't think should have been fired. The biggest mistake the jets made was getting brett favre hands down.

apparently, considering they guy they had on their roster until that trade happened and didn't have to give up prime draft picks to get just beat the Jets in their own house to win the division.

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

But he wasn't an improvement over what the Dolphins had this year.

But that just makes it worse. Kind of a "look what Pennington can do under a better coaching staff" kind of thing. Because the Dolphins don't exactly have Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin at WR if you know what i mean.

I'm not saying Favre isn't at fault too, but Mangini had to go.

The Great Jonathan Vilma · 12-29-2008, 03:29 PM

Favre sucked. Straight up sucked. He should be fired also....

captainjack27 · 12-29-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

apparently, considering they guy they had on their roster until that trade happened and didn't have to give up prime draft picks to get just beat the Jets in their own house to win the division.

I really couldn't stop laughing when the Jets lost last night. Good for Chad Pennington, always thought he was getting the shaft.

Paranoidmoonduck · 12-29-2008, 03:30 PM

I'm not clear that this wasn't the best move for the Jets. They want to find the right guy who's leading them to where they want to be and if Mangini wasn't felt to be the guy, then fine.

But I don't think he deserved to be fired, at least looking from the outside in. That team had a pretty strong turnaround this year.

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

I'm not clear that this wasn't the best move for the Jets. They want to find the right guy who's leading them to where they want to be and if Mangini wasn't felt to be the guy, then fine.

But I don't think he deserved to be fired, at least looking from the outside in. That team had a pretty strong turnaround this year.

They lost to Oakland, San Francisco and Seattle. After the win against Tennessee that had them pegged as a possible Superbowl team, they only won one game and that was due one of the biggest flukes you're ever going to see. And that game was against Buffalo, who was in last place in the AFCE.

The Jets turned it around. And then they turned it back.

NY+Giants=NYG · 12-29-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma

Favre sucked. Straight up sucked. He should be fired also....

I agree... He just looked lost, and uninterested this season, especially the end stretch. You guys got him to lead the ship, while he seemed to just be content on being the passenger while someone else led. I think he was a much better fit in GB. They will always love him there. Here in NY we have so many super stars so for us, the area isn't in awe of him. And quite frankly seeing him consistantly now, I have to say he is the most over hyped QB I ever seen. I still can't believe you guys went from 8-3 superbowl talk to this mess.

keylime_5 · 12-29-2008, 04:03 PM

Funny how little things like an offensive scheme and wide receiver play can change a QB's success from how it was in 2007 to how it was in 2008. I don't have any doubts that Favre would've had another 30+ TD and 3500 yard season in Green Bay.

TimD · 12-29-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 10

I have a terrible feeling, and this is the first time I have said this about any team.

Spags to the Jets.

i would love that. but i would be interested to see how Kris Jenkins, David Harris, Calvin Pace, and Vernon Gholston adapt to the 4-3. Yes Jenkins has already ran it but he had his best season arguably in the 3-4. Gholston is a question mark in any D. But our 2 best LBs may not be fit to this D.

TimD · 12-29-2008, 04:09 PM

Bill Cowher (HC) Josh McDaniels (OC) and Romeo Crennel (DC) for the WIN!!!

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

Funny how little things like an offensive scheme and wide receiver play can change a QB's success from how it was in 2007 to how it was in 2008. I don't have any doubts that Favre would've had another 30+ TD and 3500 yard season in Green Bay.

And this right here is why I'm not in favor of getting rid of Favre. In fact, I'd say the Jets are better off drafting a wide receiver after that turd of a season Laveranues Coles had. Now I know why Coles was so upset was Chad was dumped. He needs to have those floaters Chad threw when he was here.

keylime_5 · 12-29-2008, 04:11 PM

Gholston is best suited for DE in a 4-3, preferrably on the weakside, though he played effectively on the strongside at Ohio State. He's strong enough, it's just a question of want to. Pace quite obviously thrives in a 3-4 and struggles in a 4-3. New York would need a 3 technique DT to play next to Jenkins, and they'd have a load of DEs with Ellis, Gholston, Thomas, and Pace - though they'd be best putting Pace at SLB.

This is kinda getting ahead of things though, I have a feeling Spanguolo is gonna wind up in Detroit.

And as far as Cowher goes, it really doesn't seem like he's gonna coach anywhere this year.

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimDris

i would love that. but i would be interested to see how Kris Jenkins, David Harris, Calvin Pace, and Vernon Gholston adapt to the 4-3. Yes Jenkins has already ran it but he had his best season arguably in the 3-4. Gholston is a question mark in any D. But our 2 best LBs may not be fit to this D.

I'd be more worried about Harris and Pace than Jenkins and Gholston. I look at it this way. If the Jets want to switch back to the 4-3, IMO they need to bring back Jonathan Vilma.

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

Gholston is best suited for DE in a 4-3, preferrably on the weakside, though he played effectively on the strongside at Ohio State. He's strong enough, it's just a question of want to. Pace quite obviously thrives in a 3-4 and struggles in a 4-3. New York would need a 3 technique DT to play next to Jenkins, and they'd have a load of DEs with Ellis, Gholston, Thomas, and Pace - though they'd be best putting Pace at SLB.

This is kinda getting ahead of things though, I have a feeling Spanguolo is gonna wind up in Detroit.

And as far as Cowher goes, it really doesn't seem like he's gonna coach anywhere this year.

If Spanguolo wound up with the Jets, I'd guess Calvn Pace would fill the role Mathias Kiwanuka was before Osi got hurt. But just the same, if I'm Spanguolo, I'd staying right where I am for the time being and pick my shot.

Menardo75 · 12-29-2008, 04:18 PM

Favre really got a lot worse as the season went on. The only Jet game I really watched all of was the game against my team. The way they called plays in that game was almost like they were scared of Favre going crazy. They seemed to play it really conservative with him from what I saw.

I just don't get it now. You knew what you were getting when you traded for him. Doesn't make sense that they trade for him then play an offensive scheme to pretty much hold him back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

If Spanguolo wound up with the Jets, I'd guess Calvn Pace would fill the role Mathias Kiwanuka was before Osi got hurt. But just the same, if I'm Spanguolo, I'd staying right where I am for the time being and pick my shot.

I think he would be a bad hire considering all the money they spent to bring in guys to run the 3-4.

TimD · 12-29-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

I'd be more worried about Harris and Pace than Jenkins and Gholston. I look at it this way. If the Jets want to switch back to the 4-3, IMO they need to bring back Jonathan Vilma.

thats who i meant by our best 2 LBs. Do you think HArris could play the 4-3 MLB spot

derza222 · 12-29-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimDris

i would love that. but i would be interested to see how Kris Jenkins, David Harris, Calvin Pace, and Vernon Gholston adapt to the 4-3. Yes Jenkins has already ran it but he had his best season arguably in the 3-4. Gholston is a question mark in any D. But our 2 best LBs may not be fit to this D.

Jinx would be absolutely fine in the 4-3. Gholston would probably be better in the 4-3 to be quite frank. Harris is a question mark but I think he could be alright. Pace is a big question mark because he didn't seem to click till he was in the 3-4, same goes for Thomas though he isn't exactly a stud in the 3-4. Serviceable though. Kenyon Coleman probably doesn't have a good fit, Ellis stays outside at end presumably with Thomas and some of our other guys. Mosely moves inside, not sure what happens with DeVito. We'd definitely need a guy to start next to Jenkins inside, figure out what the best fit for Harris is and find somebody to start by him. Not sure who starts at WLB, and Pace I presume is SLB but not sure I like that fit too much.

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

I just don't get it now. You knew what you were getting when you traded for him. Doesn't make sense that they trade for him then play an offensive scheme to pretty much hold him back.

Because this is the Jets we're talking about here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

I think he would be a bad hire considering all the money they spent to bring in guys to run the 3-4.

Well, think of it this way.

Move Gholston and Thomas to RDE, move Calvin Pace to SLB, trade David Harris to Baltimore, likely for a first rounder and bring back Vilma and there you go, conversion back to the 4-3.

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimDris

thats who i meant by our best 2 LBs. Do you think HArris could play the 4-3 MLB spot

Nope. If the Jets move back to the 4-3, I thinkhe's gonna have to be traded to a team like Arizona or Baltimore.

Menardo75 · 12-29-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

Because this is the Jets we're talking about here.

Well, think of it this way.

Move Gholston and Thomas to RDE, move Calvin Pace to SLB, trade David Harris to Baltimore, likely for a first rounder and bring back Vilma and there you go, conversion back to the 4-3.

Highly doubt they get Vilma back, and Calvin Pace was a bust until Arizona started running a little 3-4.

Crickett · 12-29-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

Highly doubt they get Vilma back, and Calvin Pace was a bust until Arizona started running a little 3-4.

Yep, but that was Arizona and Spags knows what to do with guys like Calvin Pace.

Menardo75 · 12-29-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

Yep, but that was Arizona and Spags knows what to do with guys like Calvin Pace.

And what is that exactly?