Rod Marinelli fired

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I'll take Calvin off of your hands if he doesn't really look all that good to you. He looks all that good to me, lol.

Did I say that no one looked good? No, I said there weren't a ton of guys that looked good, ie. what you'd like to get out of a draft which is like 3 starters. Yes, CJ is a beast. Anyone else from that draft look all that great so far?

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Agreed we need better personnel bottomline. A good experienced coach with heavy input on personnel might help. But also we do need better coaches because Marinelli and his staff were not good coaches either. Millen pretty much did what he wanted until this year when he made moves Marinelli wanted. Both Millens moves and Marinellis moves were epic failures.

Technically we do have a new GM from last offseason. Problem is Mayhew has the stink of Millen on him. However, Millen had the final say in all football decisions so I won't penalize Mayhew for that. I'll give him a chance but I won't expect much from another inexperienced GM. Who knows maybe he disagreed with Millen on some of the picks and Millen just did what he wanted.

It's a collective effort as well. We'll see if we change any other scouts or pro personnel other than the one other change we made. Plus we'll see how much input the head coach has on personnel decisions as well. So far Mayhew has made 2 moves. One great move on a trade for Roy and he picked up Daunte for cheap and now has the option to release him for nothing. I don't expect much so anything he does will suprise me. The head coach decision is the most crucial.

Not all that cheap for Culpepper. He has a clause in his contract that pays him a bonus if he played in something like 5% of the teams snaps after he was aquired, plus a few other million dollar incentives that without checking right now, I'm pretty sure he hit. Think he played in 5% of the snaps? I'm pretty sure he did.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by ironman4579

Did I say that no one looked good? No, I said there weren't a ton of guys that looked good, ie. what you'd like to get out of a draft which is like 3 starters. Yes, CJ is a beast. Anyone else from that draft look all that great so far?

Gerald Alexander is a decent free safety but he was on IR most of this year.

Manny Ramirez wasn't a good guard but he's young and cheap and strong. He'll be back. We need 2 guards but he'll be on the roster.

2008

Gosder in this years draft was a bright spot at Right Tackle for our Oline. He'll be there for years anchoring the right side. He wasn't the problem on the line. LT and interior line.

Kevin Smith looked good his rookie year. 8 tds and 4.1 ypc behind a dreadful line. He can get the short yardage stuff and can make a guy miss, has a great attitude and runs hard.

Avril had a decent season as well as a rookie. 5 sacks. Needs to bulk up to be a starter but is at the least a situational guy.

There is some young raw talent from this years draft, plus Calvin is an absolute monster and Alexander is decent when healthy(at least he was as a rookie).

However, the young guys plus Ernie Sims were all we had and Redding every now and then but without a nose tackle or Mike, Redding isn't a dominant player. Everyone else on the team blew. The rookies did their job except for Dizon who is way too small. But when rookies are you're best players, you get 0-16.

[Geo]

Kevin Smith can make some killer cuts.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by ironman4579

Not all that cheap for Culpepper. He has a clause in his contract that pays him a bonus if he played in something like 5% of the teams snaps after he was aquired. Think he played in 5% of the snaps? I'm pretty sure he did.

It was a million dollar bonus but I don't think he met any of the scenarios. It wasn't 5% it was at least 50%. Culpeppers contract hike kicks in next year but its all salary and roster bonus so if we cut him before March 1st, we save a ton of money. 5 mill I think. Whatever it was it was a smart contract for this year just like Boddens contract was smart. We can cut Bodden before his 8 mill bonus kicks in and save a ton of money. Based on Boddens play, he may be gone. Depends on the new coaches scheme. Bodden is clearly not fit for zone. Culpepper should be gone. If anything we'll resign Orlovksy hopefully to a 1-2 year deal and most likely draft a QB.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by Geo

Kevin Smith can make some killer cuts.

He's great for a zone blocking scheme. I think we have to keep the zone blocking scheme for Kevin Smith to be succesful. Which is why Colletto was demoted to the O-line coach IMO instead of released. Smart move actually unless there is a better zone blocking scheme guy Oline coach out there.

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Manny Ramirez wasn't a good guard but he's young and cheap and strong.

That doesn't really contradict my statement. Alexander is decent, but he could still be upgraded. Bullocks is the only safety on our team I really like all that much.

2008

Gosder in this years draft was a bright spot at Right Tackle for our Oline. He'll be there for years anchoring the right side. He wasn't the problem on the line. LT and interior line.

Kevin Smith looked good his rookie year. 8 tds and 4.1 ypc behind a dreadful line. He can get the short yardage stuff and can make a guy miss, has a great attitude and runs hard.

Avril had a decent season as well as a rookie. 5 sacks. Needs to bulk up to be a starter but is at the least a situational guy.

I didn't comment on this years draft as I think it's too early to say anything. But weren't you the guy that was saying that Rod had more control this year and that was part of the reason why the Lions blew? I mean even three decent players out of a draft is better than anything we've had in about the last 10 years. Not a defense for Rod or anything, but it kind of contradicts what you were saying. And I still think it's too early to comment on this draft anyway. Kevin Smith could be Kevin Jones 2.0 for all we know.
.

Left some comments for you.

[BRAVEHEART]

I think Kevin could excel anywhere. With the kind of o-line play that he was given, and what he made with it shows his skills right there.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by ironman4579

Left some comments for you.

Overall Rods personnel moves were terrible, moreso in free agency such as Chuck Darby,Dwight Smith, Nece etc than in the draft. The big one was Darby for Rogers which was Marinellis fault and a huge reason we suck beccause our run D was putrid. Millen still did what he wanted in the draft but Rods mold of players caused us to give up talent for attitude. For instance Darby and Dizon over more talented players. This years draft defenders flew off the board, so we were stuck with Cherilus who was a good pick though. Gosder had a good year. Kevin Smith was offensive too and Avril was the lone defensive bright spot. Its not one persons fault, but Marinelli had more say this year and the team got worse. Millen had already failed and put the team in a terrible situation, but Rod made matters worse.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/12/29/lion...nts-spagnuolo/

Good news Xio. We requested permission for Spagnuolo. As did the Browns.

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

It was a million dollar bonus but I don't think he met any of the scenarios. It wasn't 5% it was at least 50%. Culpeppers contract hike kicks in next year but its all salary and roster bonus so if we cut him before March 1st, we save a ton of money. 5 mill I think. Whatever it was it was a smart contract for this year just like Boddens contract was smart. We can cut Bodden before his 8 mill bonus kicks in and save a ton of money. Based on Boddens play, he may be gone. Depends on the new coaches scheme. Bodden is clearly not fit for zone. Culpepper should be gone. If anything we'll resign Orlovksy hopefully to a 1-2 year deal and most likely draft a QB.

Actually, it was 5%.

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf...ppers_dea.html

He also met one of the other incentives, which was the Lions giving up less sacks than last year. Thus, we are paying him around $1.37 million dollars for 5 games, four TD's, and 6 INT's.

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Overall Rods personnel moves were terrible, moreso in free agency such as Chuck Darby,Dwight Smith, Nece etc than in the draft. The big one was Darby for Rogers which was Marinellis fault and a huge reason we suck beccause our run D was putrid. Millen still did what he wanted in the draft but Rods mold of players caused us to give up talent for attitude. For instance Darby and Dizon over more talented players. This years draft defenders flew off the board, so we were stuck with Cherilus who was a good pick though. Gosder had a good year. Kevin Smith was offensive too and Avril was the lone defensive bright spot. Its not one persons fault, but Marinelli had more say this year and the team got worse. Millen had already failed and put the team in a terrible situation, but Rod made matters worse.

I completely agree on the free agent moves. The overall point I was trying to make in my original post was that no other coach is going to be much more successful with the complete lack of talent outside of a few guys. Without a complete roster overhaul, I wouldn't expect much more next year. I'll sit here and argue all day with anyone that thinks we have even a decent amount of NFL talent on this team.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by ironman4579

Actually, it was 5%.

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf...ppers_dea.html

He also met one of the other incentives, which was the Lions giving up less sacks than last year. Thus, we are paying him around $1.37 million dollars for 5 games, four TD's, and 6 INT's.

Yep you were right. I don't know why I thought it was 50%. Maybe it was the time he needed he to play once he got here to get to that is what I was thinking. Either way he reached it. It was a move that needed to be made to get Culpepper because we were desperate at QB. 1 mil for Culpepper, a vet QB, is fine because 1) we were able to make any other move we needed 2) we are were/are under the cap 3) we will be under the cap by a good number next year 4) Culpepper will be cut before that 2.5 mil roster bonus or 2.5 mil salary. We took a shot that Culpepper still had something left when we were desperate. Don't think it was a bad move at all and it doesn't hurt us for the future. It wasn't a great move or anything, just a nothing move for a desperate team at the time. Now if they keep Culpepper at 5 mil, now thats a bad move.

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Yep you were right. I don't know why I thought it was 50%. Maybe it was the time he needed he to play once he got here to get to that is what I was thinking. Either way he reached it. It was a move that needed to be made to get Culpepper because we were desperate at QB. 1 mil for Culpepper, a vet QB, is fine because 1) we were able to make any other move we needed 2) we are were/are under the cap 3) we will be under the cap by a good number next year 4) Culpepper will be cut before that 2.5 mil roster bonus or 2.5 mil salary. We took a shot that Culpepper still had something left when we were desperate. Don't think it was a bad move at all and it doesn't hurt us for the future. It wasn't a great move or anything, just a nothing move for a desperate team at the time. Now if they keep Culpepper at 5 mil, now thats a bad move.

Well, we shall see.

[Xiomera]

The Lions don't have to pay Daunte a $1 million bonus for giving up last sacks than last season, as was reported.

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf...er_review.html

[Xiomera]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/12/29/lion...nts-spagnuolo/

Good news Xio. We requested permission for Spagnuolo. As did the Browns.

God I hope it happens. I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by ironman4579

I completely agree on the free agent moves. The overall point I was trying to make in my original post was that no other coach is going to be much more successful with the complete lack of talent outside of a few guys. Without a complete roster overhaul, I wouldn't expect much more next year. I'll sit here and argue all day with anyone that thinks we have even a decent amount of NFL talent on this team.

I think we need a major overhaul too obviosuly and are devoid in many areas not all of talent. The 3 rookies I named plus Calvin and Sims are all we have. But we need a coach that can also evaluate talent too. I know two things 1) Marinelli can't evaluate talent so him being any factor in an defensive overhaul shouldn't and obviously now with the firing won't happen and 2) Marinelli can't be a good headcoach (based on the staff he stocked not Millen(Barry,OC Colletto,Cullen,Lake etc), his focus on the Dline solely(not even the entire D), inability to adapt his scheme and clock management. He's strictly a Dline guy.

No coach will be successful with this current roster I agree. But I think Billick or Spagnuolo could be successful with a roster molded to their specifications. Rod already had a team molded to his specifications and it clearly failed.

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Xiomera

The Lions don't have to pay Daunte a $1 million bonus for giving up last sacks than last season, as was reported.

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf...er_review.html

Well that's good to know.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/12/29/lion...nts-spagnuolo/

Good news Xio. We requested permission for Spagnuolo. As did the Browns.

Better than that, the Lions were granted permission by the Giants to interview Spags.

[Xiomera]

Originally Posted by Geo

Better than that, the Lions were granted permission by the Giants to interview Spags.

It's official. He's my #1 choice (behind Cowher, but he ain't coming here).

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

I think we need a major overhaul too obviosuly and are devoid in many areas not all of talent. The 3 rookies I named plus Calvin and Sims are all we have. But we need a coach that can also evaluate talent too. I know two things 1) Marinelli can't evaluate talent so him being any factor in an defensive overhaul shouldn't and obviously now with the firing won't happen and 2) Marinelli can't be a good headcoach (based on the staff he stocked not Millen(Barry,OC Colletto,Cullen,Lake etc), his focus on the Dline solely(not even the entire D), inability to adapt his scheme and clock management. He's strictly a Dline guy.

No coach will be successful with this current roster I agree. But I think Billick or Spagnuolo could be successful with a roster molded to their specifications. Rod already had a team molded to his specifications and it clearly failed.

No argument from me. My point was never that Rod was a good HC. Simply that anyone that thought bringing in someone else to coach the current roster would lead to a dramatic turnaround is fooling themselves.

[Xiomera]

Originally Posted by ironman4579

No argument from me. My point was never that Rod was a good HC. Simply that anyone that thought bringing in someone else to coach the current roster would lead to a dramatic turnaround is fooling themselves.

I think it's safe to say that over 50% of this roster will be overturned though. It doesn't make us any better automatically, but it'd be damn hard to assemble a less talented squad.

[ironman4579]

Originally Posted by Xiomera

I think it's safe to say that over 50% of this roster will be overturned though. It doesn't make us any better automatically, but it'd be damn hard to assemble a less talented squad.

That's certainly my hope Xio.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Originally Posted by Xiomera

I think it's safe to say that over 50% of this roster will be overturned though. It doesn't make us any better automatically, but it'd be damn hard to assemble a less talented squad.

And the good news is a lot of the contracts either expire or on 1-2 year deals other than Redding or Backus or players we want like Calvin,Sims,Gosder.

Lenon,Cody,McDonald,Peterman,Stanley Wilson George Foster, Rudi Johnson Orlovsky are up. Only Orlovsky should be resigned to 1-2 year deal IMO.

Kitna,Culppeper are mostly salary/roster bonus. Both gone.

Mulitalo,Fisher,Keith Smith,Dwight Smith,Nece,DeVries,Darby all saves us money if gone. Brian Kelly already gone.

Backus is actually cuttable and it wouldn't hurt the cap too bad in 2009, but I think we hang on to him. Reddings number doesn't start rising way high until next year so Redding will be back.

Boddens contract is the only big decision. 8 million roster bonus is a lot of money. All depends on the scheme but getting burnt in this last game doesn't help his cause. Then again he's a man corner and had no safety help and will will have a lot of holes to fill on defense. We can absorb it, but we'll see.

[lionsfan81]

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

And the good news is a lot of the contracts either expire or on 1-2 year deals other than Redding or Backus or players we want like Calvin,Sims,Gosder.

Lenon,Cody,McDonald,Peterman,Stanley Wilson George Foster, Rudi Johnson Orlovsky are up. Only Orlovsky should be resigned to 1-2 year deal IMO.

Kitna,Culppeper are mostly salary/roster bonus. Both gone.

Mulitalo,Fisher,Keith Smith,Dwight Smith,Nece,DeVries,Darby all saves us money if gone. Brian Kelly already gone.

Backus is actually cuttable and it wouldn't hurt the cap too bad in 2009, but I think we hang on to him. Reddings number doesn't start rising way high until next year so Redding will be back.

Boddens contract is the only big decision. 8 million roster bonus is a lot of money. All depends on the scheme but getting burnt in this last game doesn't help his cause. Then again he's a man corner and had no safety help and will will have a lot of holes to fill on defense. We can absorb it, but we'll see.

I reallyyyyyy pray we don't resign Bodden. In no way is he worth 8 million dollars. Even when he played "man" defense for the Browns he was only average. That's why the Browns felt he was so easy to let go. From many Browns fans I remembered reading how he would get burned a lot, but have a few INTs that would glorify him in highlight reels.