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Old 12-30-2008, 10:02 PM    (permalink
illmatic74
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Originally Posted by Larry View Post
If only Shanny didn't draft defense so poorly,trade draft picks for overated players(Robertson and Bly) and sign over the hill vetereans(Mcree,Webster, Engleberger), he would be coaching this weekend instead of looking for work.
That's about right
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:05 PM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
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It's a shocking move because Shanahan just seemed like one of those guys who'd be coaching his team forever

But really, it could work out for Denver. Getting a real GM in there will solve the drafting problems (Shanny was decent as an offensive drafter and TERRIBLE on defense) and bringing in a defensive minded coach will solve most of the problems. Of course, the risk for backfire is that Cutler regresses in a new offense, and they might have to actually get a real RB now.

I'm not sure what he'll do now. He could easily get a job this year but it might serve him well to take a year off
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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As a raider fan i love it seeing rat face gone from t he donkeys ....but my dislike for the donkeys aside, i will go on the record and say will be one of the worst mistakes denver broncos will ever have made. Shanny is a brilliant coach he is a winner and with the way the NFL is with hire and fire every other year, the broncos were one of the only teams that had some kind of coaching stability for a long time as much as i hated the broncos i envied that about them just as much and wished raiders had half of what they had. Raiders made a mistake letting him go in the 80s and broncos will do the same, as someone stated before 2 non winning seasons all those years is a accomplishment that most teams envy plus ass 2 rings to that the guy deserves his stay. Teams always come and go with greatness regardless of how good the coach is but Shanny was a year or 2 away from getting another ring! .... makes me sick to my stomach to admit that but they had a nice bunch of talent on offense.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure he isn't having to look for work. PLenty of teams should come calling his way. Hopefully he goes to the Lions and rebuilds that mess.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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I didn't read through all three pages so I apologize if I'm repeating something someone else already brought up.

Obviously I'm surprised by this move.

Could it be possibly that the organization has their eye on a young coach- and now was the only time they'd be able to get him before someone else does? I mean think about it- that offense is in EXCELLENT shape for the future. Perhaps the organization saw Shanny getting a bit burned out and wanted to get one of their guys now to grow with this young offense. Two names that come to mind are Josh McDaniels and Jason Garrett. Both those offensive coordinators are hot names and would probably love to coach that offense. Also, both missed the playoffs and could have been contacted as early as Sunday night about whether they'd consider the position or not.

Just a thought...
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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I was shocked when I heard this. Incredible...
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm not entirely surprised that Shanahan has left, its the nature of his departure that shocked me. I never envisioned him being fired especially as he's very close to Pat Bowlen. I always thought he would leave Denver by the 'Mike Holmgren' route once he realised he needed a break or the team just needed a new direction. Never thought Bowlen would make that decision for him.

Perhaps Bowlen wanted to bring in a new GM and Mike said 'no thanks' leaving Bowlen with no choice. Just a theory.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
I'm not entirely surprised that Shanahan has left, its the nature of his departure that shocked me. I never envisioned him being fired especially as he's very close to Pat Bowlen. I always thought he would leave Denver by the 'Mike Holmgren' route once he realised he needed a break or the team just needed a new direction. Never thought Bowlen would make that decision for him.

Perhaps Bowlen wanted to bring in a new GM and Mike said 'no thanks' leaving Bowlen with no choice. Just a theory.
Sums up my thoughts.

They could have handled this better.

Then again, they could have tried to and he just said no.

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Old 12-31-2008, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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A SB ring buys you 5 years right? Well in that case his ten years are up.

njx, I think people are just surprised. He is one of those coaches that is the face of the franchise, the first person opposing fans think of....whenever those guys are fired, it's a big deal....no matter how unsuccessful they had been recently or in this case, the last ten years.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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I don't think there's outrage as much as surprise. He's been there over ten years, and then bam Tuesday afternoon suddenly it's no longer the case. If anything, even the media are pointing out that Shanny the GM hurt this team the last few years more than Shanny the HC could help.

Although to be fair to Shanahan, he did bring in talent to the defensive side of the ball. Actually put a good deal of focus and resources into it, draft-wise, the last two years. But since Dumervil, who was a 4th round pick in 06, those picks have yet to really contribute/help change things for the better.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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i'm really entertained by all the outrage and calls of "mistake" from people who have seen, at most, two broncos games this season.
It's because the passing offense looks so damn sexy... they forget / don't understand that Shanahan was also entirely responsible for the utter ruin of the defense. The poor drafts, failed FA's, revolving door of DC's, front office power struggles... Shanahan was so absorbed with having total control that it came to the point where there was really no one else left to blame.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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which i fully get. it'd be like kryzerklhsdfakj at duke getting axed. but at the same time, it's disgusting to me how many people have bought the ESPN kool aid hook line and sinker. he's not a genius and he hasn't been in ten years. period. if someone would like to debate that, i'd be more than willing to rebut, point for point, any "evidence" you think you may have.

we can start with the "any running back" crap that killed the offense this year when our group of third tier backs were all getting hurt. alex gibbs installed the scheme that made it work. alex gibbs taught rick dennison that scheme. that was not and has never been a shanahan scheme, no matter what talking head feels like giving him the credit for it.

seriously, does anyone have *anything* else? i'd love to hear about his "genius" over the last decade.
No one will take up that challenge.

Gruden, Billick, and Shanahan were all labeled "offensive geniuses" by the media, or in Gruden's case....self-proclaimed....but they never measured up to that. Shanahan latched onto a scheme, Gruden latched onto Callahan, and I don't know how Billick attained his "genius" status. Granted years of patience because of SB wins that they didn't even have the main influence over.

It's weird, fans around the NFL have the same view on Gruden and Billick as they have of Shanahan....they think they are great coaches, for no real reason. (probably because no fans of other teams actually watch them play, as you said)

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Old 12-31-2008, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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and the passing offense wasn't even that sexy! man. it's like the entire season's worth of frustration has caught up now. our offense was mostly flash and trash all season, it just looked ok because cutler, royal and marshall are fantastic players.
Didn't he draft all of them though?
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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- I'll take your word for Shanahan failing as a gameday coach, njx. From what I saw, less in comparion, he did some good things. Helped some of his offensive players succeed. However, it seemed to me, Shanahan and the gamecalling dropped off more after the first 15 scripted plays than for any other WCO coach in the league. Quite the drop-off. I'm not arguing he did enough to save his job or even merit another year, although I did think before today he would have another year and be fired next summer.

- In terms of gameplans and adjustments, I don't doubt that he was mediocre at this point. Especially as the running game fizzled down the last number of years.

- Is he a bad coach in terms of his hires? Heck, at the time I thought hiring Jim Bates as DC would be a good (maybe even great) thing myself, and that turned out to be a total nightmare. As was this season, to which I was really surprised that Shanahan said he would keep the current DC. So in terms of a DC, I'd say he's been poor, sure.

Although from '03 to '06, the Broncos were Top 10 in scoring defense. In '07 and '08, they were 28th and 30th respectively, which obviously brings the team as a whole down and prevents them from returning to the playoffs. That doomed him, especially when they had a chance to make the playoffs in each of the three seasons and he couldn't accomplish the goal once.

- Crappy players? Well, you would know better than I. I would think they came in with talent, and some of them haven't had the chance to show it. Carlton Powell for sure, the rookie missed the year to injury, but I think he's a solid DT to at least have in rotation. Moss, Crowder, and Thomas have played for two DCs in their first two years, and it's likely to move to three on both counts. But if a player can play, they'd probably show flashes of it at least, alluding to your point.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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No one will take up that challenge.

Gruden, Billick, and Shanahan were all labeled "offensive geniuses" by the media, or in Gruden's case....self-proclaimed....but they never measured up to that. Shanahan latched onto a scheme, Gruden latched onto Callahan, and I don't know how Billick attained his "genius" status. Granted years of patience because of SB wins that they didn't even have the main influence over.

It's weird, fans around the NFL have the same view on Gruden and Billick as they have of Shanahan....they think they are great coaches, for no real reason.
You hate on Gruden way too much. Its not his fault the defence collapsed. Everyone knows he has nothing to do with the defence. Lets see anyone get out as much as he did with the Bucs offensive players.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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You hate on Gruden way too much. Its not his fault the defence collapsed. Everyone knows he has nothing to do with the defence. Lets see anyone get out as much as he did with the Bucs offensive players.
I COMPLETELY agree. The defense did collapse, and he does make due with mediocre players.

but there is a reason we continue to stock our offense with mediocre players.........BOY BLUNDER's ego. Not only does he want to stay the face of the franchise, which he couldn't do with an LT or Brady, but he wants to prove that he is such a genius he can win with ****.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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No one will take up that challenge.

Gruden, Billick, and Shanahan were all labeled "offensive geniuses" by the media, or in Gruden's case....self-proclaimed....but they never measured up to that. Shanahan latched onto a scheme, Gruden latched onto Callahan, and I don't know how Billick attained his "genius" status. Granted years of patience because of SB wins that they didn't even have the main influence over.

It's weird, fans around the NFL have the same view on Gruden and Billick as they have of Shanahan....they think they are great coaches, for no real reason. (probably because no fans of other teams actually watch them play, as you said)


Billick latched on to Randall Cunningham, Randy Moss, and Cris Carter.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Billick latched on to Randall Cunningham, Randy Moss, and Cris Carter.
There you go!

I didn't even realize he was the coordinator for them............
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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I COMPLETELY agree. The defense did collapse, and he does make due with mediocre players.

but there is a reason we continue to stock our offense with mediocre players.........BOY BLUNDER's ego. Not only does he want to stay the face of the franchise, which he couldn't do with an LT or Brady, but he wants to prove that he is such a genius he can win with ****.
Jeez, you are completely overanalyzing this. If gruden could get premium talent instead of putting all the resources into the defence there is no doubt in my mind he would. You think he wanted Talib last year?
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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Jeez, you are completely overanalyzing this. If gruden could get premium talent instead of putting all the resources into the defence there is no doubt in my mind he would. You think he wanted Talib last year?
Yeah, I think he did.

He averaged over 20 yards per catch playing receiver in college.

He wanted the next Neon Deion. A guy who could possibly play both ways.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I think he did.

He averaged over 20 yards per catch playing receiver in college.

He wanted the next Neon Deion. A guy who could possibly play both ways.
I sure hope you are being sarcastic. Considering Talib did not get one look on offence the whole season. Also if Gruden's ego was so big, dont you think he would have stuck with Dexter?
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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I sure hope you are being sarcastic. Considering Talib did not get one look on offence the whole season. Also if Gruden's ego was so big, dont you think he would have stuck with Dexter?
Semi-sarcasm. I do believe he mentioned it during Aqib's first press conference.

If his ego wasn't massive Dexter would have been benched the first time he took a nose dive instead of a hit.

It lasted as long as it did BECAUSE of his huge ego.

and that will be the reason Dexter will be on this team for years instead of being cut.

Dexter will be the starting KR/PR in TC next year, with Peanut winning it right before the season starts. I guarantee it.

Last edited by Bruce Banner : 12-31-2008 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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He's still an excellent coach but I think he was just too complacent in Denver for whatever reason. A change of scenery is best for both parties. I just hope he goes to an NFC Team.
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:30 AM    (permalink
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which i fully get. it'd be like kryzerklhsdfakj at duke getting axed. but at the same time, it's disgusting to me how many people have bought the ESPN kool aid hook line and sinker. he's not a genius and he hasn't been in ten years. period. if someone would like to debate that, i'd be more than willing to rebut, point for point, any "evidence" you think you may have.

we can start with the "any running back" crap that killed the offense this year when our group of third tier backs were all getting hurt. alex gibbs installed the scheme that made it work. alex gibbs taught rick dennison that scheme. that was not and has never been a shanahan scheme, no matter what talking head feels like giving him the credit for it.

seriously, does anyone have *anything* else? i'd love to hear about his "genius" over the last decade.
He made Jake Plummer look like a competent quarterback. That in itself is genius.
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Old 12-31-2008, 06:53 AM    (permalink
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njx for HC pelase
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