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Old 01-02-2009, 03:23 AM    (permalink
HellonEarth84
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Default Cassell's trade value?

I'm thinking a late 1st and early 4th with a team like Detroit.

They trade us the Cowboys pick that they got for Roy Williams, and the first pick in the 4th round.

Why? Because they need a QB who can win games. They don't have the luxury of waiting 2-4 years for a QB to develop (or BUST like Harrington did). They would still have the #1 pick overall, and 2nd, and two 3rd rounders.

Pats then have the 20th and 24th picks in the draft. Two 2nd rounders (Chargers pick), and possibly two 3rd rounders (Asante Comp).

Ideal trade for both teams. Ofcourse, Detroit could also throw a boat load of cash away for the #1 overall QB in the draft and risk getting the next Alex Smith.

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Old 01-02-2009, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see the pats trading away Matt cassell until they know is brady is ready to play next year.
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see the pats trading away Matt cassell until they know is brady is ready to play next year.
You're right but I think Hellonearth is just speculating. I think we'll franchise him but he is probably worth at least a mid-late first rounder. That Lions pick from Dallas sounds about right.
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Wait, if the Lions don't have the ability to wait 2-4 years for a QB to develop, who exactly does?
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Wait, if the Lions don't have the ability to wait 2-4 years for a QB to develop, who exactly does?
His point is that Cassel is more ready to play than the average college QB because he has starting NFL experience.

No team can wait 2-4 years for a QB to develop unless the QB is a developmental project as a backup, like the Pats with Cassel. That worked out pretty well for us.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Thanks Vito.


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Wait, if the Lions don't have the ability to wait 2-4 years for a QB to develop, who exactly does?

Certain teams can afford to re-build and develop a new QB. Like the Chiefs with Thigpen and the Seahawks with Seneca Wallace. Remember how patient NYG were with Eli Manning's development as well.

The Lions simply cannot take another risk. Atleast I wouldn't want to if I were the GM.

They've already wasted a lot of time and money on Joey Harrington. Do fans really want to waste another 2-4 years waiting to see if maybe an overpaid young QB can pan out? They just went 0-16 and have a shot at going 0-16 again next year if they have a rookie QB. That franchise has been a mess for many years now and needs a 'sure thing'. I also doubt their blue chipper Calvin Johnson will want to stick around for very long if he has to deal with QB issues in Detroit. That team needs stability at QB.

San Francisco is in a similar predicament after the Alex Smith BUST, and they are also a prime candidate to trade for Matt Cassell.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:38 AM    (permalink
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Thanks Vito.





Certain teams can afford to re-build and develop a new QB. Like the Chiefs with Thigpen and the Seahawks with Seneca Wallace. Remember how patient NYG were with Eli Manning's development as well.

The Lions simply cannot take another risk. Atleast I wouldn't want to if I were the GM.

They've already wasted a lot of time and money on Joey Harrington. Do fans really want to waste another 2-4 years waiting to see if maybe an overpaid young QB can pan out? They just went 0-16 and have a shot at going 0-16 again next year if they have a rookie QB. That franchise has been a mess for many years now and needs a 'sure thing'. I also doubt their blue chipper Calvin Johnson will want to stick around for very long if he has to deal with QB issues in Detroit. That team needs stability at QB.

San Francisco is in a similar predicament after the Alex Smith BUST, and they are also a prime candidate to trade for Matt Cassell.
The LIONS cannot take another risk huh? A franchise that's struggled as mightily as they have for as long as they have, cannot afford to take a chance on a potential franchise quarterback and should instead opt for the "safe" option huh? Sorry man, but I severely disagree with you on this point. Of all franchises, I believe theirs should be content in taking a chance on a guy like Matthew Stafford. Quite frankly, he has the type of ceiling that no other guy they'd be able to find in free agency/via trade. This high ceiling could very well then eventually lead them out of the basement they've been trapped in for far too long. Maybe you see something in Cassell that I don't see, but it is my opinion that the Lions cannot opt for the mediocrity that I see as Matt Cassell. If they have the option of drafting a true franchise quarterback to take command of their offense, they simply must do so. Detroit already made the mistake of going with a guy in a similar situation to Cassell when they went out and got Scott Mitchell way back; therefore I don't see them being overly enthused about the possibilities of acquiring Cassell. If I'm Detroit's GM I get my franchise QB with #1 and then get him a decent LT with the first from dallas.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:52 AM    (permalink
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No way should Detroit give up a first for Cassel.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:58 AM    (permalink
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Cassel's trade value is zero. Why? Because he is a FA, and the Pats can't risk franchising him and just end up failing to trade him. They would be screwed.
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:43 AM    (permalink
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Cassel's trade value is zero. Why? Because he is a FA, and the Pats can't risk franchising him and just end up failing to trade him. They would be screwed.
There are already reports in New England that Cassel is going to be franchised.
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:54 AM    (permalink
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The LIONS cannot take another risk huh? A franchise that's struggled as mightily as they have for as long as they have, cannot afford to take a chance on a potential franchise quarterback and should instead opt for the "safe" option huh? Sorry man, but I severely disagree with you on this point. Of all franchises, I believe theirs should be content in taking a chance on a guy like Matthew Stafford. Quite frankly, he has the type of ceiling that no other guy they'd be able to find in free agency/via trade. This high ceiling could very well then eventually lead them out of the basement they've been trapped in for far too long. Maybe you see something in Cassell that I don't see, but it is my opinion that the Lions cannot opt for the mediocrity that I see as Matt Cassell. If they have the option of drafting a true franchise quarterback to take command of their offense, they simply must do so. Detroit already made the mistake of going with a guy in a similar situation to Cassell when they went out and got Scott Mitchell way back; therefore I don't see them being overly enthused about the possibilities of acquiring Cassell. If I'm Detroit's GM I get my franchise QB with #1 and then get him a decent LT with the first from dallas.
This isn't Madden. It's real life. The bolded phrase sums your entire mentality up. "Take a chance". Since when can 0-16 teams afford to take chances.

BTW Brady was merely "medicore" when he won his first SB. So were the Ravens and Bucs QBs when they won. Rothlisburger was pretty damn mediocre the year Pitts won the SB.

Pennington is the epitome of mediocre and he took the Dolphins to the playoffs this year.

Draft a rookie QB and the Lions aren't sniffing the play offs any time soon.

Oh yeah...and take a look at Matt Leinart who was drafted 10th overall and thought of as a "can't miss" prospect. Look at JaMarcus Russell who was drafted #1 overall. Now I'm not saying Stafford will BUST, but there's a very very very good chance that he will. QBs are 50/50...its a crap shoot that Detroit can't afford.

If Detroit drafts a QB #1 overall - they risk being the laughing stock of the NFL for another 5 years
If Detroit trade for Cassell with #20 overall - they get a proven NFL QB for a late 1st rd pick, AND a franchise LT with the #1 overall.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:13 AM    (permalink
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If Detroit trade for Cassell with #20 overall - they get a proven NFL QB for a late 1st rd pick, AND a franchise LT with the #1 overall.
No....if they trade for matt cassell they have a one year wonder quarterback who did great in the top offensive system of all time with Randy Moss and Wes Welker catching his passes.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:29 AM    (permalink
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The Lions aren't going to be making a run at anything for 3 or 4 years, even if they could trade a first for Peyton Manning. They'd be incredibly stupid to trade a first round pick for a $14-million one year rental who is going to get killed behind that line (even if they do draft a LT).

You guys have to keep that in mind...anyone who trades for a franchised Cassel gets a one year rental who:
a) sucks up $14 million of cap
b) has had one year of starting experience since 2000
c) has all of his experience playing for the best-run franchise in the NFL
d) has all of his experience throwing to two pro-bowl receivers
e) has all of his experience behind a very good line

If a franchise needs a starting QB badly enough to give up a first round pick and pay him like he's Tom Brady, it's a safe bet that Cassel is going to go into a situation in which he has crappy receivers, a horrible line, or both. That's a whole lot of cap room and trade value to spend on a one year guy who has never had anything but the very best.

Anyway, the best question for you: If a team can afford to pay a QB $14 million, why would they not just sign the best available AND use the pick on a franchise QB (also using the second first round pick on a LT, of course)? 2-3 years of Matt Stafford learning from a much, much cheaper Kurt Warner sounds pretty good when compared to what Cassel would cost them. Worst case scenario...Warner retires in two years, Stafford busts, and they're left with a crapload of cap room to get a really good franchise QB, like the Saints with Brees.

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Old 01-04-2009, 06:57 AM    (permalink
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^^^Good somebody agrees with me.

I just didnt say as much haha
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:04 AM    (permalink
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no way will the lions trade for cassell. no way. mayhew knows the situation and is willing to play hardball to get what he wants-see the dallas trade. if cassell isn't out there for free then he'd just go with another option. imo, i don't see cassell working with the lions without mcdaniels. and short of trading you guys the number 1 pick, somebody is going to be made rich by the lions, so it might as well be the top rated quarterback of this class.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
The Lions aren't going to be making a run at anything for 3 or 4 years, even if they could trade a first for Peyton Manning. They'd be incredibly stupid to trade a first round pick for a $14-million one year rental who is going to get killed behind that line (even if they do draft a LT).

You guys have to keep that in mind...anyone who trades for a franchised Cassel gets a one year rental who:
a) sucks up $14 million of cap
b) has had one year of starting experience since 2000
c) has all of his experience playing for the best-run franchise in the NFL
d) has all of his experience throwing to two pro-bowl receivers
e) has all of his experience behind a very good line

If a franchise needs a starting QB badly enough to give up a first round pick and pay him like he's Tom Brady, it's a safe bet that Cassel is going to go into a situation in which he has crappy receivers, a horrible line, or both. That's a whole lot of cap room and trade value to spend on a one year guy who has never had anything but the very best.

Anyway, the best question for you: If a team can afford to pay a QB $14 million, why would they not just sign the best available AND use the pick on a franchise QB (also using the second first round pick on a LT, of course)? 2-3 years of Matt Stafford learning from a much, much cheaper Kurt Warner sounds pretty good when compared to what Cassel would cost them. Worst case scenario...Warner retires in two years, Stafford busts, and they're left with a crapload of cap room to get a really good franchise QB, like the Saints with Brees.
just because the patriots had franchised him and then traded him to whatever team, that team doesnt have to pay the franchsie tender..they can sign him to a longer deal and avoid paying him the 14mil tender
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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i'm not even saying cassell is going to be awesome, but he is a pretty good alternative to drafting a QB for some teams (maybe not the lions, but who knows)...put him in an offense like minnesota where he can be a game manager and add life to that passing game and he will thrive IMO
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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no way will the lions trade for cassell. no way. mayhew knows the situation and is willing to play hardball to get what he wants-see the dallas trade. if cassell isn't out there for free then he'd just go with another option. imo, i don't see cassell working with the lions without mcdaniels. and short of trading you guys the number 1 pick, somebody is going to be made rich by the lions, so it might as well be the top rated quarterback of this class.
The Roy Williams trade was due to Jerry Jones throwing whatever it took to get him, not Mayhew playing hardball.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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I agree with the trade once we do franchise Cassell only if Brady is healthy though.
I do think we can get a late 1st rd pick for him.

... and while MC was throwing to two Pro Bowlers- so was Matt Leinart.
Bulger was throwing to Holt, Avery, McMichael and running with S. Jackson.
Anderson/Quinn/Dorsey were throwing to Edwards/Stallworth/Winslow.
Obviously it takes more then just havin good receivers to succeed.

As for OL... MC was sacked more then any other QB this year (47)
i'm not saying we have a bad OL but it did stink it up at times this year.
MC can go to a team and be an immediate contributor.

...also, while Stafford has all the tools you look for in a QB... I think he has BUST written all over him. I just don't like his game.
I think it'll take a lot of grooming for him to succeed. MC has already been groomed.



Again, As long as Brady has been labled healthy again... I think the Pats should trade and receive at least a 1st rd pick.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Tom Brady is better than Matt Cassell.
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Last edited by yodabear : 01-04-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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(mainly Trey Wingo)
Just because he yells whenever he speaks doesn't mean he has an opinion.

Lynch Wingo.

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Old 01-04-2009, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
The Lions aren't going to be making a run at anything for 3 or 4 years,

Even if they don't make a run, they atleast need some glimmer of hope instead of another bust who sits on the bench for 2 years and then comes in and shows everyone how much of a waste he was.

See: Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, Ryan Leaf, Skili Smith, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, JP Losman.

Do you remember what happened the last time the Lions drafted a QB in the Top 5? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Harrington

That bust set the entire franchise back.

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Harrington was first given the label of "Savior" by fans and media in Detroit - then deemed a "bust" when he did not meet high expectations. Many speculate that his premature start in the NFL, along with lack of surrounding talent, poor coaching, and questionable offensive lines have affected his performance severely. However, many fans cited his lack of mobility in the pocket, his forced passes (resulting in many interceptions) and his general unwillingness to take hits/sacks when necessary.
What makes you think Stafford will be any different. All these overhyped QBs get the SAVIOR label from fans like you.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Tom Brady is better than Matt Cassell.
Going to have to start calling you Captain Obvious.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by HellonEarth84 View Post
Even if they don't make a run, they atleast need some glimmer of hope instead of another bust who sits on the bench for 2 years and then comes in and shows everyone how much of a waste he was.

See: Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, Ryan Leaf, Skili Smith, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, JP Losman.

Do you remember what happened the last time the Lions drafted a QB in the Top 5? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Harrington

That bust set the entire franchise back.



What makes you think Stafford will be any different. All these overhyped QBs get the SAVIOR label from fans like you.
So let me get this straight, all high drafted QBs coming out, no matter of their skill level, are destined to be Alex Smith, Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington...........I would like to think that other guys at the top of the draft would be the argument to your statement: Namath, Bradshaw, Elway, Aikman, Manning, Manning, McNab, Palmer, Ryan, (Stafford?)
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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As a Lions fan there is a few problems with this.

1st nbd but we don't have a 4th round pick.
2nd We have to question MC's ability to play outside the system. Since a BB QB hasn't failed yet. Is that system or amazing luck. (2 late round picks becoming starters let alone stars) If it came with the your OC I could see it happen.
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