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Old 01-17-2009, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by giantsfan View Post
He's a disgusting athlete and physical has everything to dominate the position. That said I think he's going to be a major disappointment his first year or two in that scheme before he adjusts and the light comes on.

By then his cap number rises, and so does his age. Not only that he may have to get into LB shape too. The worse thing is paying a guy money based on production at DE positon and then saying ok to his demand to move to another position. So in essence your paying for brand name, production at one spot, and moving him to another spot where he never played. Could it be done? Yeah, but it's a risk, and if I am team I say screw you, I am paying you top dollar to play at a spot we know you can AND have excelled at!
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Maybe so, but he'd still be a pass rusher. He's as athletic as human beings get, too. Difficult to imagine how an O-line would deal with Peppers and Merriman coming from different crazy angles. Rivers and Peppers are both legends in the state of NC, send Philip on a recruiting trip! :D

Yeah, don't worry, I know it's impossible.
Easily.. You'd leave a hole somewhere else in coverage sending them, so limit your drop, slide the line towards one LB, and run a 3 step drop and routes associated with them.

In a world of madden it sounds cute, but in terms of real football it's still a risk.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Easily.. You'd leave a hole somewhere else in coverage sending them, so limit your drop, slide the line towards one LB, and run a 3 step drop and routes associated with them.

In a world of madden it sounds cute, but in terms of real football it's still a risk.
Depends on the defense.

If it's a 3-4 where they Rush Peppers about 90% of the time, I dont' see much risk.

If it's a zone 3-4 system where they rush him about 65% of the time and drop him in coverage 35% of the time. That would be more of a concern.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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I've heard some rumors out there that the Panthers may franchise Peppers and try to trade him?
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Honestly I know this doesn't matter much since it happened once a game if that, but carolina has been using peppers in zone coverage for a while, though he'd have to learn the nuances of it he wouldn't be completely lost with basic assignments. His instincts against the run are what scare me most about this move. And yes there is a big risk in this move, however there's also big upside since he's had some really disappointing stretches at DE in recent years.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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That's a risky move, as far as I can tell. I'm not sure the Panthers can afford for Peppers to be 14% of their entire 2009 cap and they certainly risk him just going ahead and signing the franchise deal before they can trade him. Which would mean they'd pretty much be at the mercy of other teams who know that they would have to dump the guy.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Makes sense if they can't re-sign him.

If he leaves as a free agent, all they will get as compensation is a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round. Even trading him for a 2nd round pick is better that that.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Peppers won't have trouble dropping weight to play OLB. He's always had trouble keeping it up. I think there's been a couple years where he was down to 260 at the end of the season
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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They've got a Patrick Kerney, Darryl Tapp and Lawrence Jackson under the cap :P

Unless one of those guys leaves I doubt they invest more there.
Tapp is a good backup, and Jackson did pretty much nothing this year. Jackson might pull a Mario and go from sucky to awesome....but I'd rather not take the chance. The Hawks pass rush was terrible last year with Kerney out, and wasnt that great when he wasnt hurt either.

LDE- Kerney
DT- Mebane
DT- Bernard/Bryant
RDE- Peppers

Thats a good DL, and not so loaded that it would put them in cap hell. Peterson, Tatupu and Hill (if he's retained) playing behind that line would be awesome.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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I've heard some rumors out there that the Panthers may franchise Peppers and try to trade him?
That would be smart, get something for him, don't give him away a la the Chargers giving away Drew Brees & Michael Turner over the course of 2 or 3 seasons.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I think it's a terrible fit, to be quite honest.
I concur. It sounds like he just wants to go to a scheme where he's got a better chance to get sacks.

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Didn't Abraham play stand up end a lot though?

No, he did not.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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The J-E-T-S are going to trade Favre and Gholston for Peppers and I am going to be a happy man. Peppers will play both sides of the ball and be an unstoppable force.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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What is the state of Delhomme in Carolina? I know he had a terrible postseason, but I haven't heard much about him before or since that. If he is on his way out, what are the chances the panthers and the patriots do some sort of Cassell/Peppers trade (not necessarily straight up, some variation). Patriots employ a 3-4, and the panthers would be in the market for a QB.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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That's a risky move, as far as I can tell. I'm not sure the Panthers can afford for Peppers to be 14% of their entire 2009 cap and they certainly risk him just going ahead and signing the franchise deal before they can trade him. Which would mean they'd pretty much be at the mercy of other teams who know that they would have to dump the guy.
The Panthers have a large amount of cap room coming, realistically speaking the worst that will happen is the Panthers will release / restructure Lucas who's been somehwat of a liability to ease his 9 million cap figure in 09. That would give us the amounts we need to increase gross to 15 million per year and still give pep 17mill if it comes to that.

The smartest thing the panthers could do is tag Peppers and trade him to a 3-4 or even 43 team for a first rounder and early 2nd day pick and go hard in free agency for either Suggs or Haynesworth and when I say hard, I mean like a freight train. Then use that first rounder to try and get which ever DLine piece they miss on.

There's an insane, option I heard posed this morning, which is Fox and Trgovac get sacked, Cowher comes to coach in his home state, Brayton, Lewis and Kemoeatu become the three man line, Hilee Taylor and Charles Johnson move to OLB and Pep stands up.

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I concur. It sounds like he just wants to go to a scheme where he's got a better chance to get sacks.
I tend to agree. It sounds a little weird for me to say this, but maybe Pep wants that DPOY award really, really badly. Though OLBs are amazing players in their own right and they work on every play, I believe its easier for an OLB on a contender to get sacks, than it is for a Defensive end and with OLBs being either winning or coming close to winning it for nearly 3 years its hard to deny that standing up and gunning for QBs nets big bonus $$$$$.

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The J-E-T-S are going to trade Favre and Gholston for Peppers and I am going to be a happy man. Peppers will play both sides of the ball and be an unstoppable force.
We've got linebackers who can't play defensive end, and we've got a turnover prone aging QB. We need neither.



I think being in North Carolina his whole life is making him want a scenery change for some personal reason. He's played highschool, college and now pro all at home and has been under intense scrutiny every where he's been in NC. Add to the teams foolish attempt to motivate him in 07 by making him a captain he's always been under a lot of pressure without standout help, a lot of the time. If he goes to a contender in a 34 he probably feels he can produce without a lot of the make or break of the defense being squarely on him.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Franchising him and trading him makes the most sense to me... Does he net a 1st rounder though? I mean hes certainly good enough but you know how GM's are with 1st rounders. I could definitely see some team giving like a 2nd and a 4th for him or something along those lines.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys cut Spencer, Ellis, and Carp, sign Peppers. Sounds a little Madden-esque to me, but then again so does Peppers coming out and saying he wants to be a 3-4 OLB.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Franchising him and trading him makes the most sense to me... Does he net a 1st rounder though? I mean hes certainly good enough but you know how GM's are with 1st rounders. I could definitely see some team giving like a 2nd and a 4th for him or something along those lines.
I really doubt the team accepts anything less. The Panthers have no first round pick and the defensive line hurt badly last year.

I think it depends on how they go in FA. The team needs a defensive line upgrade even with Peppers and first year defensive linemen drafted outside of the top 5 (even in the top 5) rarely, if ever, produce in their rookie year.

14.5 sacks and the game planning issues he caused is going to be near impossible to replace in the draft without a first round pick, or without throwing cash at someone.

Sign Suggs I could see with a trade for a DT or high pick perhaps. Sign Haynesworth to the money you wanted to sign Peppers to and then trade Peppers for high pick.

Sign both and trade him to whomever the highest bidder is. I really doubt we're going to see Peppers just walk into a new city without the Panthers getting something or someone in return.

Any disgruntled top tier needs anyone can see.

Panthers might need a topflight tight end, DE or DT, QB (maybe) for Pep. Not much else. 12-4 teams don't have a lot of holes and a lot of teams in need of Peppers probably won't want to give up another key piece of their DLine.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Imagine how ugly things will get behind closed doors if Peppers is franchised and stays in carolina after this.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Depends on the defense.

If it's a 3-4 where they Rush Peppers about 90% of the time, I dont' see much risk.

If it's a zone 3-4 system where they rush him about 65% of the time and drop him in coverage 35% of the time. That would be more of a concern.
You do that in the NFL, and become predictable teams will scheme towards it. Teams will realize he is rushing and compensate via slide protections or move the pocket towards him blitzing. You want to maintain defensive intergrity without being predictable. So he has to do other things. Again, this is real football, not a video game. He has to be able to do all the other things a OLB in a 3-4 can do.

It would also depend on the creativity of the system and how many odd and even fronts they deploy. But I am more concerned on how he plays OLB in this system. Yes obviously the rushing part is the talked about feature but how does he do in space in coverage? You have to be more than a 1 trick poney in the NFL. If his one trick is pass rushing and is ok at everything else, i would OCs scheme towards his side, and then run coverage beaters to his vacated zone specifically Oblique- high/lows and weak and strong side floods.

My point is there is alot more to it then, he is a good pass rusher, so let's stand him up and do that.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Easily.. You'd leave a hole somewhere else in coverage sending them, so limit your drop, slide the line towards one LB, and run a 3 step drop and routes associated with them.

In a world of madden it sounds cute, but in terms of real football it's still a risk.
I know the difference between the real world and Madden; there are a ton of looks an aggressive 3-4 can come up with to send 3 legit rushers right here in the real world. Slide the line towards one side and most of the time you will find yourself with one of the rushers getting blocked by a tight end or a fullback. The D will take that matchup over the course of a game any time.

PS if Carolina were smart they'd hire a 34 coach and switch, Peppers is their cornerstone.

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Old 01-17-2009, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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I know the difference between the real world and Madden; there are a ton of looks an aggressive 3-4 can come up with to send 3 legit rushers right here in the real world. Slide the line towards one side and most of the time you will find yourself with one of the rushers getting blocked by a tight end or a fullback. The D will take that matchup over the course of a game any time.
It depends how many guys are in the protection. Mind you don't have to block everyone, especially backside. Usually you focus the line and scheme to one side and then make or designate the others as HOT. It truly depends on the protection. But I have faith in the offensive scheme to hold up, hence my point that he has to be a complete OLB. If he is a complete OLB in a 3-4 system he will have success. What made him Julius Peppers was being a complete 4-3 DE, and a sick one. All I am saying is there are ways to scheme towards him if he can't be complete.
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Old 01-17-2009, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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The one thing that is bad for Peppers is that the Panthers aren't going to care where Peppers ends up.

They're going to tag him and pawn him to the highest bidder.
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Old 01-17-2009, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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I wish Dallas had the cap room. Come on, uncapped NFL! I'm ready!
Icky.

Wouldn't it cost the Panthers nearly 17 mil to tag him and keep him?
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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What is the state of Delhomme in Carolina? I know he had a terrible postseason, but I haven't heard much about him before or since that. If he is on his way out, what are the chances the panthers and the patriots do some sort of Cassell/Peppers trade (not necessarily straight up, some variation). Patriots employ a 3-4, and the panthers would be in the market for a QB.
Delhomme isn't going anywhere. He should, but he's not under this coaching staff. Irregardless, Cassell doesn't fit for Carolina. Ignoring the question of can he play outside New England, he's no good for the scheme. The Panthers offense is built on running the ball and throwing up deep balls to Smith. If Cassell couldn't throw up deep balls to Moss with all the benefits of the NE offense, he ain't doing **** in Charlotte
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