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Old 12-02-2010, 03:09 PM    (permalink
nepg
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The Vikings are one of the classic NFL teams... It just seems completely wrong to move a team like that. There are teams that I could care less about like the Jaguars, Titans, Texans, and even the Saints... But Minnesota has a pretty strong history with the Vikings.

Contrary to what I've read, Minnesota fans are pretty good from what I've seen. I've not been to a Vikings game, but they swarm all over KC when the Twins come to town. The only other team that has fans that flood KC like that is the Cardinals.

However, this does have all the makings of a Seattle Supersonics situation... It seems like the voters just don't want to be strong-armed into a stadium the way Pittsburgh and Orlando were with the Penguins and Magic.
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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I don't see why the Wilfs would want to move into someone else's stadium where they would have to share the revenue and possibly sell off a stake of the team. One of the main reasons they bought the team was so that they could develop a "sports tourism destination". Basically a stadium surrounded by restaurants, hotels and stores that they would own and lease out. They are real estate developers by trade so this type of thing is what they are good at. I think they'll get a sweetheart deal done at the 11th hour that probably isn't in the best interest of the state, but would be great for the Wilfs.
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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All of this **** is just posturing... letting this info out puts more pressure on Minnesota to get a stadium done and I hope it happens.

I just hope Minnesota is smart and goes back to an outdoor stadium. They went to 4 Super Bowls when they had that advantage. Not one in the dome.

Plus, it's cheaper anyway
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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All of this **** is just posturing... letting this info out puts more pressure on Minnesota to get a stadium done and I hope it happens.

I just hope Minnesota is smart and goes back to an outdoor stadium. They went to 4 Super Bowls when they had that advantage. Not one in the dome.

Plus, it's cheaper anyway
They don't want an outdoor stadium and that's part of the hold up. They want a stadium with all the bells and whistles, retractable roof, tons of luxury suites etc. They want a $800m stadium when they could probably build a stadium like Ford Field which cost $400m 10 years ago, so maybe around $500m today with inflation factored in.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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They don't want an outdoor stadium and that's part of the hold up. They want a stadium with all the bells and whistles, retractable roof, tons of luxury suites etc. They want a $800m stadium when they could probably build a stadium like Ford Field which cost $400m 10 years ago, so maybe around $500m today with inflation factored in.
I get it. They want a Super Bowl there.

But from the team's standpoint, they should go back outside.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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The Raiders are a candidate, but they'll probably end up sharing a stadium with the 49ers in Santa Clara.
Not happening, they talked with Davis but he wasnt interested.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Not happening, they talked with Davis but he wasnt interested.
Nevermind then, the Raiders have to be considered candidate number one if that's the case.

Al would be all over a new stadium like stink on ****. Only obstacle would be if he's interested in selling a minority ownership to the stadium owner.

Overall, wonderbredd's probably right in that the Wilf's are meeting with the LA people as a negotiating tactic with the Minnesota politicians. I've said before that I think LA is far more valuable to the league as a relocation threat to bully taxpayers into paying for their stadiums. Put an actual team there and all that leverage disappears.

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Old 12-02-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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JW why did the LA Rams and the LA Raiders fail at LA the first place? was it because the city never wanted to build them stadiums also?
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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If Los Angeles really wanted an NFL team, then the Rams and Raiders BOTH wouldn't have left.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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JW why did the LA Rams and the LA Raiders fail at LA the first place? was it because the city never wanted to build them stadiums also?
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If Los Angeles really wanted an NFL team, then the Rams and Raiders BOTH wouldn't have left.
Again, both of those teams left because they were an extreme competitive disadvantage in the stadiums they played in. They both played in run-down buildings that didn't have luxury boxes and were never meant to host football games in the first place.

Both were actively seeking a new stadium for a long time and left when they couldn't get them.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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The Vikings are one of the classic NFL teams... It just seems completely wrong to move a team like that. There are teams that I could care less about like the Jaguars, Titans, Texans, and even the Saints... But Minnesota has a pretty strong history with the Vikings.

Contrary to what I've read, Minnesota fans are pretty good from what I've seen. I've not been to a Vikings game, but they swarm all over KC when the Twins come to town. The only other team that has fans that flood KC like that is the Cardinals.

However, this does have all the makings of a Seattle Supersonics situation... It seems like the voters just don't want to be strong-armed into a stadium the way Pittsburgh and Orlando were with the Penguins and Magic.
Nobody ever imagined the Minnesota North Stars leaving either. Hockey is the sport that Minnesotans identify with.

For them to move to Dallas was unbelievable.

The thing about Vikings fans is this: Their loyal fans are GREAT. As good as any in football. Die-hards, who have never once in their life (most of them) even seen their team make it to a Super Bowl.
And none of them have ever seen the Vikings win a Super Bowl.
But these die-hard fans are still bleeding purple. Great fans.

However, the percentage of die-hards among overall Minnesotans is so much less than, say, Packers or Chiefs or Steelers fans.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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NFL stadiums are also much more expensive to build than baseball/college football ones.

That said, I live in Minneapolis and from my observations it seems like the Vikings are, at best, 3rd fiddle to the Wild and the Twins. There seem to be almost as many Packers fans as Vikings ones. It's just a historically poorly run organization that does very little to endear itself to the public, as evidenced by this move. I will personally vote down any measure that doesn't ensure the owners pay at the very least 40-50% of the stadium cost, which so far they haven't even come close to.

There are a lot of sports teams/things to do in the Twin Cities, I honestly don't think the Vikings would be that missed beyond the hardcore fan base.
There is no way the Vikings are 3rd fiddle to the Wild and Twins. Throughout the rest of the state, where you don't have easy access to Target Field and the Xcel Energy Center, the Vikings are definitely the top team. Even in the state of Hockey there is no way the Wild are more popular than the Vikings.

As far as LA is concerned I still find it funny that the NFL desperately wants to up-root a franchise and move it to a market where that had 2 other NFL teams that it wasn't able to keep. Have they given any thought to the fact that there just might be too many sports to follow in LA? You have other professional teams and 2 major college football programs. The people of LA just don't seem to care that much.

However, it would be interesting if the Vikings moved if only for the irony of another MN professional team being whisked off to LA.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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There is no way the Vikings are 3rd fiddle to the Wild and Twins. Throughout the rest of the state, where you don't have easy access to Target Field and the Xcel Energy Center, the Vikings are definitely the top team. Even in the state of Hockey there is no way the Wild are more popular than the Vikings.

As far as LA is concerned I still find it funny that the NFL desperately wants to up-root a franchise and move it to a market where that had 2 other NFL teams that it wasn't able to keep. Have they given any thought to the fact that there just might be too many sports to follow in LA? You have other professional teams and 2 major college football programs. The people of LA just don't seem to care that much.

However, it would be interesting if the Vikings moved if only for the irony of another MN professional team being whisked off to LA.
Six million television households will grant you multiple opportunities. As I've said all along, the Los Angeles situation has been grossly misrepresented. If either team had gotten a new stadium, they'd still be here.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Six million television households will grant you multiple opportunities. As I've said all along, the Los Angeles situation has been grossly misrepresented. If either team had gotten a new stadium, they'd still be here.
And there will be a brand spanking new stadium for whatever team the eventually do get to move in there.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Whatever happened to the talk about Jacksonville possibly moving to LA? I thought they were the front-runner since they have so much trouble selling their games out and getting any support from their fan-base.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Whatever happened to the talk about Jacksonville possibly moving to LA? I thought they were the front-runner since they have so much trouble selling their games out and getting any support from their fan-base.
Eh, teams that move usually do so because of stadium issues, rarely sellout issues. And the Jags have sold out all of their games this year I think, and iirc, signed with some sponsors prior to this year that would make moving expensive due to the buyout.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Whatever happened to the talk about Jacksonville possibly moving to LA? I thought they were the front-runner since they have so much trouble selling their games out and getting any support from their fan-base.
they have a stadium lease that runs for the next 20 years.

no attendance issues ever moved a team. if they were the case, the Cardinals would have left AZ in the 90s
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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they have a stadium lease that runs for the next 20 years.

no attendance issues ever moved a team. if they were the case, the Cardinals would have left AZ in the 90s
I remember a highlight on ESPN from the early part the 2000s when they had Josh McCown and Emmitt Smith running the show there, and they were trying to lead a 4th quarter comeback.

Chris Berman was doing the highlight and said "They could come back! All 3 Cardinals fans are on their feet!" and the camera showed a large section of the stadium, right around midfield, and there LITERALLY were 3 fans sitting within the camera view.

They'd also pan the crowd and you'd see twice as many jerseys for the visiting team there than Cardinals fans......
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Nobody ever imagined the Minnesota North Stars leaving either. Hockey is the sport that Minnesotans identify with.

For them to move to Dallas was unbelievable.

The thing about Vikings fans is this: Their loyal fans are GREAT. As good as any in football. Die-hards, who have never once in their life (most of them) even seen their team make it to a Super Bowl.
And none of them have ever seen the Vikings win a Super Bowl.
But these die-hard fans are still bleeding purple. Great fans.

However, the percentage of die-hards among overall Minnesotans is so much less than, say, Packers or Chiefs or Steelers fans.

Pretty much exactly this, the casual Vikings fan is an absolute joke. One foot on the bandwagon and one foot off. But the true fans are fantastic.

As for the whole 3rd fiddle thing, MAYBE second fiddle to the Twins, but they're definitely more popular than the Wild. If you try to strike up a conversation about the Wild it's going to fizzle out quickly, even if they're doing well.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Yup, for better or for worse, the Jags are married to Jacksonville for the foreseeable future.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:14 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
Pretty much exactly this, the casual Vikings fan is an absolute joke. One foot on the bandwagon and one foot off. But the true fans are fantastic.

As for the whole 3rd fiddle thing, MAYBE second fiddle to the Twins, but they're definitely more popular than the Wild. If you try to strike up a conversation about the Wild it's going to fizzle out quickly, even if they're doing well.
There are more Vikings fans in general, but there are more hardcore Wild fans.

I can get a Viking ticket at market price on gameday unless it's against the Packers. It's damn near impossible to get Wild tickets at any point.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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I can get a Viking ticket at market price on gameday unless it's against the Packers. It's damn near impossible to get Wild tickets at any point.
How much of that has to do with a considerably better stadium and less seats being available though? I mean the Metrodome holds what 65,000 and Xcel holds like 20,000 and is from what I read a far better arena.

I'm one of the few Vikings fans around probably where the Minnesota part really isn't a huge issue. Outside that it would most likely rip apart the NFC North where we have close to, if not, the best rivalries in the NFL I have no geographical ties, that doesn't mean I want them to move, really I just what is best for the team.

I would expect that this is more of a negotiating technique than a thought that has really been entertained at this point. It can quickly change, but at this point that is how I see it.

Also... LA has got to be the best place for them... the consistency with stealing the other Purple and Gold Minnesota team as well, it worked out pretty damn well for the Lakers. What is with Minny teams and the Purple and Gold by the way?
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