Free Agency/Trade Market - Page 13

ElectricEye · 12-18-2009, 12:21 PM

I'm serious about the rookie cap system. Who knows how much that will change the draft? It could be an opportune time to pick up a **** TON of cheap talent if trade into next year.

nepg · 12-19-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

I am pretty confident that we will use ou picks this year, we have to. If we don't then I won't know what to say. If we trade a pick for an actual player not a future pick I'd be OK with that given what we give up and get, but if we trade for a future pick again I'm going to ******* lose it.

They trade for picks so they always have leverage in the future if they need it. They still always use enough of their picks to come out with enough players to fill holes. You have to remember that there are only 53 spots on the roster. If they don't have 7 open spots after free agents, they're not going to make 7 picks.

In 2007 they were sorta forced to use all their picks, and so they had to draft guys that were crappy enough to make the practice squad. If a guy isn't going to be able to survive on the PS, they'll have to stick him on the PUP/IR for a minor injury...

So that's why they don't use all their picks. It's painful sometimes when they trade a pick with a guy you want sitting there, but that's just the way it goes... They have to waste as few of those picks as possible.

Don Vito · 12-19-2009, 09:58 AM

Yeah but we're always trading away our top picks, and that is where the best talent is. So it is frusturating, like this year we could have had Maualuga and Matthews but we traded out of the first then passed on Maualuga in the second. LB is our weakest point and we all knew it in April, so I can't really can't defend it.

nepg · 12-19-2009, 11:30 AM

The secondary was a bit more dire, and now it's not much of an issue going into the off-season. The Pats were also still holding out hope they'd land Peppers. I think they'll end up with Peppers for 2010.

AntoinCD · 12-19-2009, 11:55 AM

They always seem to keep picks that may be needed for what seems like a blockbuster move, whether in the draft or through a trade. Unless as was mentioned Peppers is that move nothing this year seems to be big enough. In the draft there is nobody worth trading up for at a position of need as most pass rushers will still be around the bottom of the 1st.

What I would hate is if they trade up for someone like Spiller, who dont get me wrong will be a great fit but not for a high price.

If they decided to go for a big trade up in this years 1st it realistically should only be for either Rolando McLain or Gerald McCoy should he fall

Nalej · 12-19-2009, 12:04 PM

I'd rather trade up for the DE/OLB from GT-- Dexter Morgan (haha)

nepg · 12-19-2009, 12:08 PM

I don't think they'll trade up. Honestly, I like the possibility of getting Spiller, but if he's not there, I'm guessing Devine and Best will be in this draft and will be available to them. And I think Devine is better.

Not really sure what I want them to do with their first 4 picks right now... It was a bit more clear a few weeks ago.

descendency · 12-19-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I'd rather trade up for the DE/OLB from GT-- Dexter Morgan (haha)

He's not an OLB. He won't drop into coverage well. He's purely a 43 DE.

ElectricEye · 12-19-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

He's not an OLB. He won't drop into coverage well. He's purely a 43 DE.

You don't know that.

Nalej · 12-19-2009, 05:51 PM

We need a pass rush... so all I want him to do is rush the passer
He'll learn everything else eventually

ElectricEye · 12-19-2009, 05:52 PM

I've actually seen Morgan drop back a few times and he looks fine. It would be a learned skill, but he's done nothing to suggest that he "can't" do it. Not anymore than any other DE/OLB convert.

Matthew Jones · 12-19-2009, 08:31 PM

I'm thinking the team could use talent at most positions on the team, unfortunately. At running back, there's a need for a guy who can take advantage of tired defenses and break off big runs - no one on the team right now is really a threat to get loose for a long touchdown. There's a possibility that at wide receiver a veteran wide receiver would come in handy - maybe Deion Branch? Offensive line depth is probably needed, and I could see an interior lineman being a pretty big need. Logan Manks could leave in free agency, which would be pretty bad, Dan Koppen has been muscled around way too much this year and last, and Stephen Neal gets injured too much to count. I don't see much of a future from any of the mid/late-round linemen we waste picks on.

Defensive line depth is also a huge need - this team could go out there tomorrow starting Mike Wright, Titus Adams, and Jarvis Green on the line. Wright and Green are pretty good situational guys, but when people go down, you're forced to use them all the time and that wears them down. Ty Warren is a very good defensive lineman and Vince Wilfork needs to be re-signed, but I could really go for a five-technique. I'll give Ron Brace a little while, even though it's looking like they misfired on that one. And obviously, linebackers are very necessary. Mayo and Guyton are a good combo inside, and I think Tyrone McKenzie will give good depth there, but aside from Tully Banta-Cain the team lacks any sort of pass rusher. Burgess and Thomas will be gone, so the team could use another two rushers or so. I don't think they can count on Crable to be healthy.

FlyingElvis · 12-21-2009, 09:59 AM

^ I think Crable has been part of the BB gaming of the IR system, frankly. Just a hunch since I haven't looked into too much but he's out this year from preseason with a groin injury. It doesn't get more suspicious than that, imo.

I completely agree on the OLB/DE picks. I think we need to take 2 early since we have none. TBC can still be situational pass rusher like he should be anyway.

ElectricEye · 12-21-2009, 10:14 AM

**** MLB, we need OLB's. We need to cut pretty much all of them outside of Tully, who isn't a starter anyway.

FlyingElvis · 12-21-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

**** MLB, we need OLB's. We need to cut pretty much all of them outside of Tully, who isn't a starter anyway.

Agreed. Especially now that "Mancrush Maualuga" is a Bengal. :(

AntoinCD · 01-07-2010, 01:23 PM

Ok so Josh Cribbs is probably out of Cleveland now. My question is would it be worth going after him, paying him approximately 3 mill a year? He would immediately upgrade the return game, led the Browns on special teams tackles and on offense would mean we could pass on someone like Spiller and focus on defense and o line. What would you give for him? Do you want him? I'd give the last second rounder for him

FlyingElvis · 01-07-2010, 01:32 PM

I'd give any second rounder for him & the money it would take - assuming it's in the neighborhood of 3 million per year. He's young, incredibly talented, upgrades any return game to top 3 in the league and would (imo) excel as a WR2 with Moss on one side & Welker in the slot. Plus he looked very good in the wildcat for Cleveland this season.

The guy was excellent on a terrible team. He would be a beast in a situation like we have.

My only hesitation would be the chance at missing on a potential stud pass rusher if we gave up one of our earlier second round picks. If we could manage it as a draft day trade based on the available talent I would be all for it.

ElectricEye · 01-07-2010, 08:40 PM

Would love to have Cribbs. I think he can really be a weapon a team with an offense like ours.

noondog · 01-12-2010, 10:12 AM

Sorry for trollin, but I wanted to throw a trade idea by you for your thoughts on it...

Do you think that the Pats would trade their second or third 2nd round pick to Detroit for Julian Peterson?

This is the way I see it: The Pats are going to remain legit SB contenders for at least the next couple of years imo. Peterson would project very well as a pass rushing OLB who has the veteran presence, leadership and general demeanor that the Hoody seems to covet. In the type of defensive system that NNE runs, I think that he could easily return to his Pro Bowl form. His salary for the upcoming season is $7.5 mil...

In return, the Lions get a pick that would help them continue to grow their young core of players.

Thoughts?

Don Vito · 01-12-2010, 10:16 AM

I like Peterson but I think our youth movement is in full swing too, I can't see us giving up a draft pick for a player this year. We need top young talent, but if we bring a vet in anywhere I could see it being at LB whether in FA or possibly a trade.

Like I said I'm a Peterson fan but he is 31 and if we gave up a second rounder for him I'd be pretty upset.

nepg · 01-12-2010, 10:22 AM

Peterson doesn't fit the Pats. He's a smaller pass rushing LB... The Pats will typically roll with the bigger is better theory. Belichick has passed on a lot of players due to their lack of size.

They're going hard after Peppers this off-season.

Razor · 01-12-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Peterson doesn't fit the Pats. He's a smaller pass rushing LB... The Pats will typically roll with the bigger is better theory. Belichick has passed on a lot of players due to their lack of size.

^^This! And this i the reason why I think that he'll be taking a good look at Kindle and Sapp. Kindle is imo proven, has great size and upside. Sapp has much more upside, especially physically, so I could see BB drafting him a bit higher than most of us would like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

They're going hard after Peppers this off-season.

I really hope not. He doesn't fit the scheme and his motor runs hot and cold. I don't think he's a team player or a lockerroom leader - the Patriots need both desperatly. Besides that, I don't think he would fit under the cap.

FlyingElvis · 01-12-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noondog

Sorry for trollin, but I wanted to throw a trade idea by you for your thoughts on it...

Do you think that the Pats would trade their second or third 2nd round pick to Detroit for Julian Peterson?

This is the way I see it: The Pats are going to remain legit SB contenders for at least the next couple of years imo. Peterson would project very well as a pass rushing OLB who has the veteran presence, leadership and general demeanor that the Hoody seems to covet. In the type of defensive system that NNE runs, I think that he could easily return to his Pro Bowl form. His salary for the upcoming season is $7.5 mil...

In return, the Lions get a pick that would help them continue to grow their young core of players.

Thoughts?

I agree with what the Don said. It is now looking like a full bore restocking is under way for our defense. At his age, Peterson doesn't really fit into the mix well. But if you'd like Adalius Thomas we might consider it. ;)

NE's second round pick might be ok but not with either of the higher picks from Tenn & Jax. We have no 3rd round pick b/c it was sent to Oakland for Burgess. Another fading pass rusher . . . which would probably make me personally want to steer clear of doing something like that again this coming off season.

I'd rather see NE try to get a guy like Peppers (as long as it costs $$$ only, no picks) than Peterson. At least Pep's bad years are 6 and 7 sacks versus the 2 and 3 sack season Peterson has as bad years. Though I doubt NE goes after Peppers at all b/c he'd have to play a new position and would cost a ton of $$$ in an off-season where we have to work out new deals for Wilfork and Mankins.

nepg · 01-12-2010, 01:12 PM

They were set to go after Peppers last year. Jason Taylor was the backup plan, but he chose Miami. They want an athletic, full-sized 4-3 DE at OLB. That's what they had with McGinnest, and it's what Belichick has always looked for.

FlyingElvis · 01-12-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

They were set to go after Peppers last year. Jason Taylor was the backup plan, but he chose Miami. They want an athletic, full-sized 4-3 DE at OLB. That's what they had with McGinnest, and it's what Belichick has always looked for.

But they won't pay top dollar and I don't expect Peppers to take a big discount. I'd love to see him get a shot under BB but I doubt they make a big push for one of the most expensive FA's to hit the market. If he's tagged you can completely forget about him. No way in hell NE pays his high dollar contract and gives up picks for him.