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Old 05-05-2011, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Me too man.

I really don't want any part of Vincent Jackson due to the character issues and entitlement stuff. He did end up being tagged before the deadline too, which eliminates that discussion a bit.
I agree. It'll be a happy day in hell before BB makes a deal with the Lord of No Rings.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Realistically all I want is an outside WR who can run a deep route and bring some coverage with him. Im not expecting another Randy Moss but someone who at least backs up one safety from clogging the middle. Hopefully that's Taylor Price. He showed a few signs of being capable in the season finale but that's clearly too small a sample size. If he can do it it solves a lot of issues. If not then I gotta think teams like the Jets and Ravens would have our number again. I have a feeling that BB is more than satisifed with what's on the roster though, rightly or wrongly
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Realistically all I want is an outside WR who can run a deep route and bring some coverage with him. Im not expecting another Randy Moss but someone who at least backs up one safety from clogging the middle. Hopefully that's Taylor Price. He showed a few signs of being capable in the season finale but that's clearly too small a sample size. If he can do it it solves a lot of issues. If not then I gotta think teams like the Jets and Ravens would have our number again. I have a feeling that BB is more than satisifed with what's on the roster though, rightly or wrongly
It's definitely understandable at the WR spot, since we have drafted a decent prospect two years in a row and they could develop.

It's so much more concerning on the defensive side of the ball. Starting TBC and V-Weazy at DE while we ignore both spots is just mind-boggling to me.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't necessarily say that. We've worked out a lot of wide receivers over the course of the pre-draft process. That shows that we at least have a desire and interest in upgrading the position. It's great to be hopeful about Price, but the failure rate for guys like him is so astronomically high that you really can't count on him for anything besides potential and an interesting ride.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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It's definitely understandable at the WR spot, since we have drafted a decent prospect two years in a row and they could develop.

It's so much more concerning on the defensive side of the ball. Starting TBC and V-Weazy at DE while we ignore both spots is just mind-boggling to me.
Yeah for sure. I'd prefer them to go after someone like Cullen Jenkins in FA which gives them the comfort room to cut both Gerard Warren and Marcus Stroud, thus freeing up a roster space. Although Warren was serviceable at times last year he is not going to be that much of an upgrade over some of the developmental guys.

At OLB Im not sure what they're going to do. The only guy I see worth taking in FA is Kiwi and he averages something like 4 sacks a year.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Kiwi has never been given a completely fair shake for the Gaints between injuries, Justin Tuck, JPP, and Michael Strahan. He's a good buy low guy for sure that could come in and exceed previous expectations in a hurry.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Kiwi has never been given a completely fair shake for the Gaints between injuries, Justin Tuck, JPP, and Michael Strahan. He's a good buy low guy for sure that could come in and exceed previous expectations in a hurry.
I sure hope so. Kiwi and Cunningham starting at OLB sounds a lot more palatible than TBC and anyone starting. Kiwi's experience standing up and playing in space may intrigue Belichick too.

What I dont want is to see them bring in a guy like Matt Roth. I'd prefer to let Eric Moore develop more in the system than waste a roster space on a guy like him.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Considering Moore has proved next to nothing outside of subpackages and is a great candidate to have diminishing returns there based on the history of guys like him both in the league and on our roster, I would have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. Roth has proved to be a successful, league average OLB in a 3-4. We have so few guys we can legitimately feel good about plugging into our base package at the moment. We could use a guy like Roth for that purpose for sure.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't necessarily say that. We've worked out a lot of wide receivers over the course of the pre-draft process. That shows that we at least have a desire and interest in upgrading the position. It's great to be hopeful about Price, but the failure rate for guys like him is so astronomically high that you really can't count on him for anything besides potential and an interesting ride.
I'm talking more talent / draft round / age. The WR spot has two young guys drafted with 3rds (including Tate who fell due to injury) vs. the DE spot that is populated by a bunch of round 6 & 7 fodder. There's "developmental" and then "way-*******-late-developmental." lol
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Considering Moore has proved next to nothing outside of subpackages and is a great candidate to have diminishing returns there based on the history of guys like him both in the league and on our roster, I would have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. Roth has proved to be a successful, league average OLB in a 3-4. We have so few guys we can legitimately feel good about plugging into our base package at the moment. We could use a guy like Roth for that purpose for sure.
**** it. Bring in Kiwi and Roth and let's trim the fat.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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**** it. Bring in Kiwi and Roth and let's trim the fat.
....but all those bench players no one else wanted might develop!
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Considering Moore has proved next to nothing outside of subpackages and is a great candidate to have diminishing returns there based on the history of guys like him both in the league and on our roster, I would have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. Roth has proved to be a successful, league average OLB in a 3-4. We have so few guys we can legitimately feel good about plugging into our base package at the moment. We could use a guy like Roth for that purpose for sure.
I dont think either guy is going to turn the defense into a great unit and dont personally think Roth is any better than Ninkovich. By bringing him in you know you are getting a player who is the definition of average and would be fine. However it seems that has been the approach for a few years at OLB and it hasn't worked.

Sure Moore only really played in sub packages but he wasn't on the team long and kinda got deep-ended a little. I'd want to give him a full offseason to get truely acclimated in the defense. In 4 games this year he had 33% of his career sacks. I think he has a genuine upside in the system that a guy like Roth doesn't
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Sure Moore only really played in sub packages but he wasn't on the team long and kinda got deep-ended a little. I'd want to give him a full offseason to get truely acclimated in the defense. In 4 games this year he had 33% of his career sacks. I think he has a genuine upside in the system that a guy like Roth doesn't
When you get 2 sacks in four games and it's actually HALF of your career sacks, that's nothing to hang your hat on as a thirty year old with over 7 years of experience in professional football. That's the very definition of a player who doesn't have upside.

Moore got some sacks because we turned him loose and let him rush, something that we didn't really let other players in our system do. He wasn't significantly better than Shawn Crable was in his limited experience here and we had no problem whatsoever parting ways with him. If we had let Cunningham, TBC, or theoretically Roth just try to get after the passer, they could likely have similar results. It's nice that we had a player get some pressure on the quarterback for a little bit, but we're not talking about a player we should be comfortable with starting or have any expectations on at all. No other team in the league would be comfortable with that...why should we?

When you haven't one a playoff game in five years, the excuse of us knowing better than every other team in the league sort of runs it's course too.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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When you get 2 sacks in four games and it's actually HALF of your career sacks, that's nothing to hang your hat on as a thirty year old with over 7 years of experience in professional football. That's the very definition of a player who doesn't have upside.

Moore got some sacks because we turned him loose and let him rush, something that we didn't really let other players in our system do. He wasn't significantly better than Shawn Crable was in his limited experience here and we had no problem whatsoever parting ways with him. If we had let Cunningham, TBC, or theoretically Roth just try to get after the passer, they could likely have similar results. It's nice that we had a player get some pressure on the quarterback for a little bit, but we're not talking about a player we should be comfortable with starting or have any expectations on at all. No other team in the league would be comfortable with that...why should we?

When you haven't one a playoff game in five years, the excuse of us knowing better than every other team in the league sort of runs it's course too.
I think system has to do with a lot of it but I agree with you saying we shouldnt be comfortable with it. Im just not sure there's guys out there this year who would make me comfortable.

Also just a side note but we did get to the Superbowl 3 years ago
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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When you haven't one a playoff game in five years, the excuse of us knowing better than every other team in the league sort of runs it's course too.
I'm still not sure where this "5 years" business started, or how it gained any traction without someone stepping up and shutting it down.

2007 was the infamous 18 win season. That means 08, 09, 10 without a playoff win.

It's only been 3 seasons. Kind of the definition of media vs. journalism, I guess, and another example of how journalism is dead.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Also just a side note but we did get to the Superbowl 3 years ago
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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I think the fact I've heard and been repeating a few times incorrectly was excluding the 07 season. Or I heard someone else say it incorrectly and it stuck in my brain. Either way, fact of the matter is we haven't had this crazy success level that we used to be able to hang on for befuddling/stupid roster choices. I fully expect this team to do everything in it's power to contend for Super Bowls, and we haven't made moves towards doing that since 2007.

I've heard "there is no window" thing before, but I really don't believe that. Of course we should always be looking for the ability to win in the future, but you've got to seize the opportunity to win a championship when you've got it.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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I think the fact I've heard and been repeating a few times incorrectly was excluding the 07 season. Or I heard someone else say it incorrectly and it stuck in my brain. Either way, fact of the matter is we haven't had this crazy success level that we used to be able to hang on for befuddling/stupid roster choices. I fully expect this team to do everything in it's power to contend for Super Bowls, and we haven't made moves towards doing that since 2007.
I agree with that definitely. It seemed as though going out and getting Moss and Welker we were definitely gearing up for a big campaign. Everything since then seems to be with one eye on the future more than anything. I understand stockpiling draft picks to use as leverage, I understand drafting Ryan Mallett etc. These will help them be a good side for longer but not neccessarily better in the short term
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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...that's fine if you're not a few steps/players away from getting back to the Super Bowl and being a strong candidate to win...but it just seems like we're in rebuilding mode yet again, to a certain extent anyway.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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The main thing has been dealing with internal contracts. They just haven't had the flexibility to go after free agents.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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BB will want Manny Lawson. Awesome special teamer, great in coverage, great edge setter. Mediocre to bad pass rusher.

Basically Rob Ninkovich+
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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I would take Lawson. Very good all around skillset, and he's still got some upside as a pass rusher. Notched 6.5 a few seasons ago. I'll take that kind of production.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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We really need to pick up somebody. Kiwanuka is the guy I really want us to grab but I see Lawson being a very likely candidate to be brought in. He is really intelligent, athletic, and is great in coverage. Yeah he may not be a great pass rusher, but I don't think that really matters to us. He is a better player than Banta-Cain at least.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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There's still a chance he finds a way to get to the quarterback more often too, even if it is unlikely. He's still just 26 years of age. A change of scenery and some new coaching has historically shown to do some good for players like Lawson.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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At the point we're at I'd take anyone of them.

How many of our FA's do you think will come back?
If we don't bring back Light I'm afraid the Mallet pick will be the steal of the whole draft. Just the thought of seeing Solder against DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller or Dummervil, James Harrison, Freeny, Wake and anyone in the Giants line, I hope Brady's insurance is good because he'll get sacked a lot.
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