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Old 02-16-2009, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
1. You don't get too much experience buried at the bottom of the depth chart holding the water for the QB holding the clipboard.
He wasn't buried at the bottom of the depth chart. He got a ton of reps in pre-season and got a lot of good looks in 2007.

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2. Teams figured out the spread, that's a coaching error not Thiggy's
The only reason he was somewhat effective at one point is because of a great coaching move to go with the spread. When teams figured it out, there wasn't much they could do because Thigpen couldn't operate in a normal offense for reasons I've already mentioned.

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3. One thing I think ROokie(essentially) qb's problems' are is they lock onto recievers. that one SD game we played, we should've won but Thiggy was locked onto TG. That can be fixed.
I agree, sometimes young QB's lock onto receivers. It's a horrible habit that is tough to break. It screams of someone who just is not a good candidate to be a starting QB in the NFL...

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4. Our team cashed it in at the very last game. I think any team would do that with as bad of a season as we had.
They were playing the Bengals. If it was a good team, they might be able to use this excuse. The last thing the Herm Edwards Era Chiefs lacked was heart and the willingness to play to the last down. They just plain got thumped by the Bengals' defense.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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He wasn't buried at the bottom of the depth chart. He got a ton of reps in pre-season and got a lot of good looks in 2007.



The only reason he was somewhat effective at one point is because of a great coaching move to go with the spread. When teams figured it out, there wasn't much they could do because Thigpen couldn't operate in a normal offense for reasons I've already mentioned.



I agree, sometimes young QB's lock onto receivers. It's a horrible habit that is tough to break. It screams of someone who just is not a good candidate to be a starting QB in the NFL...



They were playing the Bengals. If it was a good team, they might be able to use this excuse. The last thing the Herm Edwards Era Chiefs lacked was heart and the willingness to play to the last down. They just plain got thumped by the Bengals' defense.

What do you mean he wasn't buried at the bottom of the chart? He was essentially the emergency qb for 2007(Croyle, Huard, Thiggy) When Thiggy was playing in pre-season he was playing against guys that were going to get cut.

That's the one thing I see Thiggy getting held back from, not operating in a normal offense.

If you had The Greatest Tight End to ever play the game, anyone would lock onto him. I think that can be easily fixed.

Bengals Defense> 1985 Bears(Just kidding). From the looks of the game, it looks like they gave up big time.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:00 AM    (permalink
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FYI, Peyton Manning had a 56.7% completion percentage in his rookie year. That's what...two more completions than thiggy in every 100 passes? I'm not saying that Thiggy is the answer, but he's definately justified him at least competing for the starting postion next season and look at a guy that could take a year or two to start. The guy has so much upside it's hard not to think he could develop into a viable quarterback.
Also, outside of Alberts and Watters, we got no one on our offensive line. Also, Watters is getting old quick. I'd think we'd go Alex Mack in the second round, and Curry in the first, that'd help out our bleeding line and inept pass rush.
Peyton Manning also wasn't playing in the pistol offense. He played in a pro style offense, the offense that if Thigpen had played in all season he would have been absolutely HORRIBLE in.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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They do only have a few big needs. MLB, SLB, and a pass rusher (which they might already have in Babin)... The starters they have at those positions are good back-ups, so outside of a veteran corner, depth isn't a huge concern.

They couldn't run the ball due to a combination of 1) right side of the line sucked, and 2) no one respected the pass because Thigpen can't read defenses or go through progressions. Teams knew this. When you have Bowe and Tony Gonzalez, someone is open... But defenses weren't worried about those other options (Bradley turned out to be a pretty good 3rd option, and all of their RBs are good receivers) because they knew Thigpen couldn't progress past his 2nd option before he tucked it and ran, took a sack, or forced a bad throw.

They also didn't run the ball a lot because they were trailing most of the game. You can't run the ball if you can't get teams off the line with your passing game.
I think we may have a difference of opinion on strategy here. I believe that good teams use the run to set up the pass, not the other way around. You are correct about the right side of the line, however, Bowe and Gonzalez are essentially the same type of receiver. Both are possession guys, guys that you get the ball to and see if they can break a tackle to get some extra yards. The Chiefs do not have a reliable deep threat that can break coverage and get over the top of safeties consistently. Jamaal Charles may have that ability but you aren't going to get that from a running back.

I see that the Jaguars let Fred Taylor go. Apparently he has said that he wants to play until he passes Jim Brown on the all time rusher list. I know he is older and has an injury past, but I would go with Fred Taylor over Larry Johnson every single day of the week. I think a combination of Taylor, Charles and a hopefully healthy Kolby Smith would help whoever the QB is out tremendously.
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson's still damn good...and definitely still their best option at RB. They'd take a cap hit by trading or cutting him, so it's worth seeing if he can get himself together and be happy with this new regime for a year before cutting ties with him...

They've got the RBs to get the job done, they just didn't have the blocking or playcalling. And, again, teams weren't afraid of them throwing the football. If I could pick two free agents for them to grab, it'd be Jordan Gross and TJ Houshmandzadeh. I like Bradley, and Will Franklin has great potential, but when you can get a guy like Housh to go with Bowe and Gonzalez... Same with Gross - I think Richardson is damn good, but Gross is a sure-thing, All-Pro RT...

And you're still talking about a team that has $~15+ million in cap space to make a run at Matt Cassel or Karlos Dansby (both?) with...
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson's still damn good...and definitely still their best option at RB. They'd take a cap hit by trading or cutting him, so it's worth seeing if he can get himself together and be happy with this new regime for a year before cutting ties with him...

They've got the RBs to get the job done, they just didn't have the blocking or playcalling. And, again, teams weren't afraid of them throwing the football. If I could pick two free agents for them to grab, it'd be Jordan Gross and TJ Houshmandzadeh. I like Bradley, and Will Franklin has great potential, but when you can get a guy like Housh to go with Bowe and Gonzalez... Same with Gross - I think Richardson is damn good, but Gross is a sure-thing, All-Pro RT...

And you're still talking about a team that has $~15+ million in cap space to make a run at Matt Cassel or Karlos Dansby (both?) with...

If they ended up this off season getting TJ, Cassel, Gross I wouldnt care who they picked at number 3 even if its Eugene Monroe to play LT. That would be a good off season
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning also wasn't playing in the pistol offense. He played in a pro style offense, the offense that if Thigpen had played in all season he would have been absolutely HORRIBLE in.
The colts had a decent line at that time too. Also, we don't know how well Thiggy would have done because the smart thing to do was to put a guy who grew up in the spread, in the spread with a horrible offensive line. I agree, he would've been horrible, BUT he can improve on that, that's a somewhat easy coaching fix.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson's still damn good...and definitely still their best option at RB. They'd take a cap hit by trading or cutting him, so it's worth seeing if he can get himself together and be happy with this new regime for a year before cutting ties with him...

They've got the RBs to get the job done, they just didn't have the blocking or playcalling. And, again, teams weren't afraid of them throwing the football. If I could pick two free agents for them to grab, it'd be Jordan Gross and TJ Houshmandzadeh. I like Bradley, and Will Franklin has great potential, but when you can get a guy like Housh to go with Bowe and Gonzalez... Same with Gross - I think Richardson is damn good, but Gross is a sure-thing, All-Pro RT...

And you're still talking about a team that has $~15+ million in cap space to make a run at Matt Cassel or Karlos Dansby (both?) with...
Gross is also young. I don't see Pioli blowing all that money in one free agency.
You think Barry Richardson is good? I don't think he played that much this season bro...
I'd love to have housh. That'd be a scary,scary offense. Outside of Suggs and Peppers, what guy can KC take to fix their inept pass rush?
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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On Richardson, I'm going by what he was originally projected to be coming out of Clemson, why he fell, what I saw in pre-season, and the difference not having him made for Clemson... He answered all the reason he fell in the draft. He was in great shape, moved well, and really looked like a very good OL. He looked like he could play LT...

Damien McIntosh just somehow manages to get starting jobs...I don't know how he does it. He gets out-performed on the field by everyone else on the team, yet he's the starter. Maybe he's just amazing in practice? Combine that with Herm's loyalty, and that's probably why we didn't see much Richardson in 2008.

Bert Berry would be a decent temporary fix at DE while they try to find/develop a long-term solution. If Pendergast is indeed the DC, Jason Babin is perfect for that kind of defense, and really looked good in the short time he spent with the Chiefs in 2008. Johnston also looked pretty good later in the season.

For the draft... Larry Eglish, Paul Kruger, Roberty Ayers, Connor Barwin, Cody Brown, Brandon Williams, David Veikune, Tim Jamison, and Henry Melton are some pretty good options for the 2nd through 4th or 5th rounds...

And I don't see any reason for the Chiefs to not spend money. The only guy they need to get extended is Derrick Johnson. Worst case, they use the money they save by cutting LJ next year to get that done... They drafted a lot of guys recently who are going to be very good starters for a long time. They only have like 6 free agents, and the only two that should be brought back (Page & Niswanger) are RFA's.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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On Richardson, I'm going by what he was originally projected to be coming out of Clemson, why he fell, what I saw in pre-season, and the difference not having him made for Clemson... He answered all the reason he fell in the draft. He was in great shape, moved well, and really looked like a very good OL. He looked like he could play LT...

Damien McIntosh just somehow manages to get starting jobs...I don't know how he does it. He gets out-performed on the field by everyone else on the team, yet he's the starter. Maybe he's just amazing in practice? Combine that with Herm's loyalty, and that's probably why we didn't see much Richardson in 2008.

Bert Berry would be a decent temporary fix at DE while they try to find/develop a long-term solution. If Pendergast is indeed the DC, Jason Babin is perfect for that kind of defense, and really looked good in the short time he spent with the Chiefs in 2008. Johnston also looked pretty good later in the season.

For the draft... Larry Eglish, Paul Kruger, Roberty Ayers, Connor Barwin, Cody Brown, Brandon Williams, David Veikune, Tim Jamison, and Henry Melton are some pretty good options for the 2nd through 4th or 5th rounds...

And I don't see any reason for the Chiefs to not spend money. The only guy they need to get extended is Derrick Johnson. Worst case, they use the money they save by cutting LJ next year to get that done... They drafted a lot of guys recently who are going to be very good starters for a long time. They only have like 6 free agents, and the only two that should be brought back (Page & Niswanger) are RFA's.

I am not a fan of stop gap fixes for a team rebuilding. Wh sign an older guy like Bert Berry and spend the money on a younger talent that the franchise could have around beyond a year or two. I do feel that Barry Richardson will be the RT next year (depending on who KC drafts or picks up via FA).
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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I am not a fan of stop gap fixes for a team rebuilding. Wh sign an older guy like Bert Berry and spend the money on a younger talent that the franchise could have around beyond a year or two. I do feel that Barry Richardson will be the RT next year (depending on who KC drafts or picks up via FA).
Because you know Berry is going to produce a pass rush for you, and you also know he's not likely to play much longer. He'll come cheap.

The Chiefs are in a position to win starting in 2009, so while they still need to keep building their young talent, they also need to bring in guys that can get the job done now.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Because you know Berry is going to produce a pass rush for you, and you also know he's not likely to play much longer. He'll come cheap.

The Chiefs are in a position to win starting in 2009, so while they still need to keep building their young talent, they also need to bring in guys that can get the job done now.
That may be true. I don't think Bert will come cheap though. Stop gaps with the right talent behind them are fine, but KC doesn't have that talent their yet.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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Old 02-18-2009, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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That's why I listed 9 guys they could grab in the draft.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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That's why I listed 9 guys they could grab in the draft.
Yeah their are plenty of guys that will be available in the 2nd-4th rounds.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Whoa whoa whoa...did I just read that LJ is still a damn good running back? nepg, I must say I disagree with most of what you say, but you sure do make for some good conversation.

I can handle a great RUNNING running back, that can't block or catch, so long as he doesn't beat women and doesn't complain after the city turns on him. But when he beats women, bitches that the offense moved away from him after his 4 game suspension, bitches that the city doesn't like him after years of piss poor attitude, and goes on the radio making it sound like it's the city's fault that he isn't liked...then I'm done with him.

Plus, I believe the majority of running backs have a shelf-life, and LJ has hit his. So maybe not Fred Taylor (although I do think a FT/Kolby Smith thunder to Jamaal Charles lightning would be effective), I am definitely on the Get LJ Out of Town Bandwagon. Would've traded him 2 years ago.
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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Also, due to Herm's maniacal insistence on keeping the same offensive line together all year last year, I am willing to give Barry Richardson a break, however, if he again fails to get on the field or even into uniform during the season, I'm moving on from him as well.
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