The 3-4 Debate - Page 2

gpngc · 02-08-2009, 03:46 AM

Kendrell Bell fits in a 3-4...

HAHAHHAHAAHAHHA... sorry I had to. That was mean.

vidae · 02-08-2009, 10:22 AM

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

PACKmanN · 02-08-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae-KC

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

That is what me and a couple of other Packer fans on this site first thought. ugh. I think you guys run a 43 base with 34 looks.

Menardo75 · 02-08-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae-KC

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

I honestly think the hybrid defense is the best way to go. The only way to succesfully transition a defense is slowly. I wish some of the coaches thought that way...

TonyGfortheTD · 02-08-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae-KC

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

Why should they stick with the 4-3? The Defense sucks already, so it's not like they'll be losing a lot by making the plunge, the GM has always built a 3-4 D and knows how to do it quite well and the Head Coach has primarily been associated with teams that have also ran a 3-4.

I think as long as you can comfortably find a place for Dorsey in the 3-4, make the change. Regardless of the scheme, a lot of the front 7 will have to be completely rebuilt.

Romeo Crennel has experience making the transition over and he and Pioli know each other very well.

vidae · 02-08-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD

Why should they stick with the 4-3? The Defense sucks already, so it's not like they'll be losing a lot by making the plunge, the GM has always built a 3-4 D and knows how to do it quite well and the Head Coach has primarily been associated with teams that have also ran a 3-4.

I think as long as you can comfortably find a place for Dorsey in the 3-4, make the change. Regardless of the scheme, a lot of the front 7 will have to be completely rebuilt.

Romeo Crennel has experience making the transition over and he and Pioli know each other very well.

And we haven't hired a DC yet so all of this is speculation and kind of pointless!

Hermstheman83 · 02-08-2009, 10:39 PM

We're built for the 4-3, Tamba won't cut it as either a 34 DE or an OLB. Tank is a tweener when you think of the 34, we're not as bad as you guys' say we are. We put Glen Dorsey, the closest thing to a prototypical 3 gap Defensive Tackle as a 1 gap, take on all comers DT. stupid if you ask me. Our run defense improved(yea, it still sucked) but keep in mind that we were hit so hard with injuries that we had Rocky Boiman and Babin starting for us!

TonyGfortheTD · 02-09-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae-KC

And we haven't hired a DC yet so all of this is speculation and kind of pointless!

Not a whole lot of earth shattering news going on right now, so speculation as good as it gets. :/ Ugh offseason.

Right now this Defense really isn't built and primed to run any scheme.

villagewarrior · 02-11-2009, 12:55 PM

I could see the Chiefs slowly start switching over to a 3-4 but sticking with a 4-3 base for the next year or two. They just don't have the personnel to make the switch this year. Most of the D-Line doesn't fit a 3-4 scheme, and I don't see Hali as a good enough athlete to switch to a 3-4 OLB.

I could see the Chiefs using a pick or two to start bringing in 3-4 personnel if that is the path they choose to take.

bored of education · 02-18-2009, 08:55 AM

Does not look like it will happen with the recent signings for coaches. For that I am damn happy. I do love the hires and think the coaching staff, front office moves sre steps in the right direction. Lets see if it can continue through the draft and with FA signings!

nepg · 02-18-2009, 09:29 AM

I felt Dorsey would be a solid 3-4 NT going into the 2008 draft, but aside from Edwards, no other DLs or LBs fit into that kind of defense at all...
________
Chase_taylor cam

vidae · 02-18-2009, 10:58 AM

"Breaking News" on NFL Network: Adam Schefter reporting the Chiefs ARE switching to a 3-4 defense.

Unsure what that means but we'll see.

bored of education · 02-18-2009, 01:05 PM

oh goddddddddddddd

trade dorsey for a mid to late round 1st? but his ****** yer wont help his value

wtffff i am going awol

EFFING A!

vidae · 02-18-2009, 01:33 PM

Is it 100% sure that he can't play the 3-4 NT? Maybe, maybe not. That being said, our LB corp sucks bad so we definitely need to upgrade there. Curry round 1, Larry English round 2?!

IndyColtScout · 02-18-2009, 01:58 PM

NFL network reports Chiefs are switching to the 3-4.

Like the Broncos, you guys will need some work. I think DJ, Pollard, Page (if he stays), Carr/Flowers will work out in the 3-4. However, I'm not a huge fan of Dorsey or Hali in the 3-4. You guys will get there. Heck, you might just suprise some people.

bored of education · 02-18-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyColtScout

NFL network reports Chiefs are switching to the 3-4.

Like the Broncos, you guys will need some work. I think DJ, Pollard, Page (if he stays), Carr/Flowers will work out in the 3-4. However, I'm not a huge fan of Dorsey or Hali in the 3-4. You guys will get there. Heck, you might just suprise some people.

I wouldn't mind seeing a hybrid. :) Wishful thinking.

I like the coaching staff they put together and I trust the decisions being made. I may not like them but I trust them.

nepg · 02-19-2009, 08:28 AM

I had Dorsey projected as someone who could play NT in a 3-4. But it's the rest of the DL that they'll have problems with. Very undersized.

Brian Johnston can bulk back up to his pre-draft weight, and he'd be a good DE, Turk and Tank would be short DEs, Boone might be able to hold his own at NT, Ron Edwards can play DE, Hali doesn't fit at all... Overall, they're very-much on the short side.

For LB's, Babin, Gilberry, and Studebaker are 3-4 OLBs (not starters). Edwards and DJ are the only guys I'd trust at ILB (and DJ only because he's a star LB).

My thinking for the switch is that the Chiefs think they can get Julius Peppers. It will take a bit of work to get the defensive line updated to where it needs to be to run a 3-4. I'm confident in Dorsey being able to play the nose. Maybe they're thinking Tyson Jackson or Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd round (or both?), and maybe Zach Potter later?

Going 3-4 cripples their ability to get a lot better very quickly, but it could work out for them...
________
ZOLOFT LAWSUIT

Splat · 02-19-2009, 10:42 AM

More wood on the 3-4 fire.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0...and-notes.html

"A source close to Romeo Crennel said Tuesday night the former Cleveland head coach and former New England defensive coordinator is not close to joining the Kansas City staff as a defensive coordinator. It is possible, at some point, the source said, that Crennel could join former New England colleague Scott Pioli as a defensive consultant."

villagewarrior · 02-19-2009, 01:12 PM

Interesting. You could probably pack a few pounds on McBride, Johnston, and Gilberry and they would have adequate size for a 3-4 DE, but I just don't see any true 3-4 DEs or NTs. I personally don't think Dorsey fits this scheme. What I saw when we drafted him is that he should be put in a gap and allowed to penetrate. I don't see him as being able to command 2-3 blockers every play as a 3-4 down lineman.

I also don't see Tamba Hali fitting in here, and I don't know if these defensive ends that the Chiefs have are athletic enough to be 3-4 linebackers. I would say Donnie Edwards needs to be healthy since he has experience in this system, and I think Derrick Johnson is athletic enough to play the scheme, although I worry about his already shaky consistency.

I'm not sure who Studebacker is, and I don't know where Tank Tyler fits in, although he may have to play the nose until they can find a more suitable one. We got a ton of linebackers and I'm not sure where they fit in, although I do hope this kills the Pollard to LB stuff, since he is most definitely not a 3-4 linebacker. This is a headscratcher, but I'm interested.

nepg · 02-19-2009, 01:22 PM

Studebaker projected as a possible 3-4 prospect coming out of college. He's bounced around the league a bit. Again, he's a backup...

Dorsey is certainly able to play the nose. The main ingredients are base and strength. Dorsey is super strong, and has a great base. The only real question with the guy is whether he can get and stay healthy...

Haven't heard the Pollard to LB talks... If they're true, I still wouldn't rule them out. The Pats have been toying with the idea of developing a safety into a 3-4 LB for a few years now. They just about had Tank Williams ready to go last off-season, but he got injured.

The Chiefs would have a lot of work to do to convert to a 3-4, but I'm guessing they're just moving to a 3-4 base, and will switch it up quite a bit.
________
Bondage Webcams

villagewarrior · 02-19-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Studebaker projected as a possible 3-4 prospect coming out of college. He's bounced around the league a bit. Again, he's a backup...

Dorsey is certainly able to play the nose. The main ingredients are base and strength. Dorsey is super strong, and has a great base. The only real question with the guy is whether he can get and stay healthy...

Haven't heard the Pollard to LB talks... If they're true, I still wouldn't rule them out. The Pats have been toying with the idea of developing a safety into a 3-4 LB for a few years now. They just about had Tank Williams ready to go last off-season, but he got injured.

The Chiefs would have a lot of work to do to convert to a 3-4, but I'm guessing they're just moving to a 3-4 base, and will switch it up quite a bit.

I think Dorsey is most definitely strong enough to play the nose, but is he wide enough? I don't see him being able to consistently take up the 2-3 blockers that will be necessary to run a successful 3-4 scheme.

The Pollard thing has been rolling around as a result of A) His poor pass coverage and B) The cover 2's ability to take oversized safeties and create very fast linebackers out of them. That is essentially what Indianapolis did with Cato June, and people thought the Chiefs might try the same thing with Pollard. I doubt that will happen now that the 3-4 is allegedly being implemented.

I would like to see Pollard put in a Polamalu-esque role, kind of let him rove around a bit. I don't envision him having the same coverage ability, but I think he could play a huge role in run game support and against the short passing game. Actually, Page might be more valuable in that role cause I like his coverage ability, but we would need to take a look at a FS that can cover the Deep 3rd. Didn't see enough of Morgan on defense to know whether he can do it or not.

bored of education · 02-19-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

I think Dorsey is most definitely strong enough to play the nose, but is he wide enough? I don't see him being able to consistently take up the 2-3 blockers that will be necessary to run a successful 3-4 scheme.

The Pollard thing has been rolling around as a result of A) His poor pass coverage and B) The cover 2's ability to take oversized safeties and create very fast linebackers out of them. That is essentially what Indianapolis did with Cato June, and people thought the Chiefs might try the same thing with Pollard. I doubt that will happen now that the 3-4 is allegedly being implemented.

I would like to see Pollard put in a Polamalu-esque role, kind of let him rove around a bit. I don't envision him having the same coverage ability, but I think he could play a huge role in run game support and against the short passing game. Actually, Page might be more valuable in that role cause I like his coverage ability, but we would need to take a look at a FS that can cover the Deep 3rd. Didn't see enough of Morgan on defense to know whether he can do it or not.

I think Morgan is the best safety on the roster. Give him the chance and he could be a stud. I love Pollard but he is a SS only. He is atrocious in pass coverage and bites on way to many play actions.

Splat · 02-19-2009, 01:52 PM

I'm not saying Dorsey will be a great but no body knows how he will do IF we do go 3-4 or how they even plan on using him I think we all need to relax and see how this plays out before we give up on the kid and start screaming for a trade.

Ho0k Em' · 02-19-2009, 10:04 PM

I don't think our personnel is that far from making the switch.

DE- Turk
NT- Tank
DE- Dorsey
WOLB- Hali
MLB- DJ
MLB- Curry(assuming he's the pick)
SOLB- uhhhh IDK

nepg · 02-19-2009, 10:50 PM

The DL's are on the severely short-side. Hali is too unathletic to play LB and not big/strong enough to play 3-4 DE. They don't have any starter-quality guys for OLB in a 3-4...

Lots of work to be done all-around... Main focus for UFA would switch to Chris Canty & Igor Olshansky (and Mike Wright), and a string of hopeful solutions at OLB:
Tully Banta-Cain
Rosey Colvin
Clark Haggans
Darryl Blackstock
Shantee Orr

Most of those guys would come cheap...so maybe it works... The LB's would all be 1-2 year deals on the cheap side and be solid; the DE's would cost a bit more with 3+ year deals and form a defensive line that'd be worth the price...

In the draft, they could still look out for Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd/3rd round, but not feel as pressured to pull the trigger.
________
Avandia lawsuits