If a Tree Falls in the Forest and No One is Around to Hear It, Does It Make A Sound? - Page 2

TitleTown088 · 02-09-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH

Cogito ergo sum is a bunch of crap. What if the ability to think means one is actually not alive, but dead?

"I think therefore I am". I don't understand where you get the reference to death there...? Not criticizing, just curious.

jayceheathman · 02-09-2009, 08:56 PM

"What if the tree fell on Uncle Phil and he hurt the tree?"

Job · 02-09-2009, 09:05 PM

If a deaf man plays a guitar but no one's around to hear it, does he still play guitar?

WinslowBodden · 02-09-2009, 09:12 PM

I bet the animals hear it and **** themselves.

The Unseen · 02-09-2009, 09:16 PM

Depends on the definition of "sound." If sound is merely sound waves, then yes, it makes a sound. If sound is defined as the perception of sound waves, then no, it does not make a sound. I reject the idea that sound waves don't exist if someone is not there to perceive them. It requires only very little faith to assume that something that is tested to always occur like sound waves when something falls will occur when humans are not there to perceive it.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH · 02-09-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

"I think therefore I am". I don't understand where you get the reference to death there...? Not criticizing, just curious.

Err, I didn't mean death, I meant like non-existent, what Descartes was arguing against with his 'Cogito Ergo Sum'. Just because we are thinking doesn't mean that this couldn't be a figment of our imagination. Thinking doesn't necessarily mean we exist.

Brothgar · 02-09-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

You can answer this both ways:

1) Yes, sound is nothing more than vibration and the tree falling creates vibrations which travel through any medium and thus creates sound.

2) No, it does not make a sound because, if it's not perceived by me does it really exist? What I sense is nothing more than what my brain interprets. So, if I cannot experience it, is it real?

It depends on your views. I say yes but the argument for no can be made.

If you go def it doesn't mean that sound ceases to be at the moment of your loss of hearing. Sound can also be felt and seen. Atoms exist but you can't see every individual atom can you? you don't even see the atoms themselves.

I would recommend the movie "What the Bleep do we Know" although it is only sortof related

Quote:

This camera sees more than what is actually there because it has no perception and no judgement.

The Unseen · 02-09-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH

Err, I didn't mean death, I meant like non-existent, what Descartes was arguing against with his 'Cogito Ergo Sum'. Just because we are thinking doesn't mean that this couldn't be a figment of our imagination. Thinking doesn't necessarily mean we exist.

What do you mean by "exist," then? You say "just because WE are thinking doesn't mean that this couldn't be a figment of OUR imagination." If we may not exist, how could we have thought or imagination if we in fact didn't exist? Isn't something that doesn't exist something that had no qualities of any sort?

VoteLynnSwan · 02-09-2009, 09:29 PM

Sound waves are a form of energy. They in themselves are not sound. Sound is a perception, without ears, the energy of the sound waves does not vibrate an ear drum, and therefore does not make an audible sound. The waves themselves are not making the sound, the energy dissipated into the ear drum causing the drum to vibrate is what the brain perceives as sound.

What you're actually hearing is air being compressed at a certain frequency within the ear.

This thread has been pretty enlightening... I never had this belief till I read some of the posts here. Shockingly this forum has actually increased my understanding of something.

Brothgar · 02-09-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoteLynnSwan

Sound waves are a form of energy. They in themselves are not sound. Sound is a perception, without ears, the energy of the sound waves does not vibrate an ear drum, and therefore does not make an audible sound. The waves themselves are not making the sound, the energy dissipated into the ear drum causing the drum to vibrate is what the brain perceives as sound.

What you're actually hearing is air being compressed at a certain frequency within the ear.

This thread has been pretty enlightening... I never had this belief till I read some of the posts here. Shockingly this forum has actually increased my understanding of something.

But just because you do not precieve somthing does not make it stop from happening. Like if you cover your eyes your computer screen still exists in the same way that the sound of my voice still exists even though you do not hear it.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH · 02-09-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223

But just because you do not precieve somthing does not make it stop from happening. Like if you cover your eyes your computer screen still exists in the same way that the sound of my voice still exists even though you do not hear it.

But for sound to be sound, it must be perceived, otherwise it is not sound.

brat316 · 02-09-2009, 10:01 PM

its like asking does darkness exist or cold?

Darkness is actually just the absence of light, and the same thing for cold the absence of heat.

Neither one really exists but you know its there

Brothgar · 02-09-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH

But for sound to be sound, it must be perceived, otherwise it is not sound.

that totally depends on your definition of sound.

Sound
n.

1. the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium.
2. mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 ft. (331 m) per second at sea level.
3. the particular auditory effect produced by a given cause: the sound of music.
4. any auditory effect; any audible vibrational disturbance: all kinds of sounds.
5. a noise, vocal utterance, musical tone, or the like: the sounds from the next room.
6. a distinctive, characteristic, or recognizable musical style, as from a particular performer, orchestra, or type of arrangement: the big-band sound.

scottyboy · 02-09-2009, 10:16 PM

Ray Rice hears everything, so it will always make a sound. game over

TitleTown088 · 02-09-2009, 10:33 PM

Ha, I love everyone giving their best scholarly insight. Some smart cookies we have here on SWDC.

Brodeur · 02-09-2009, 10:41 PM

There is living bacteria and plants everywhere so there is something that it is making a sound to.

ShutDwn · 02-09-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223

But just because you do not precieve somthing does not make it stop from happening. Like if you cover your eyes your computer screen still exists in the same way that the sound of my voice still exists even though you do not hear it.

There are still sound waves, but no, there is no sound without them hitting the eardrum and your brain interpreting the waves.

Sound waves and sound are different.

VoteLynnSwan · 02-09-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

There is living bacteria and plants everywhere so there is something that it is making a sound to.

well bacteria and plants have no perception of sound... they don't hear things.

Quote:

But just because you do not precieve somthing does not make it stop from happening. Like if you cover your eyes your computer screen still exists in the same way that the sound of my voice still exists even though you do not hear it.

the energy released by the falling tree does indeed exist... but it produces no sound. to put it another way... you can't see wind, and you can't hear energy. What you're hearing is the effect of the energy, not the energy itself.

You can then ask yourself the following question: How does sound proofing work? Well sound proofing either absorbs or reflects the energy caused by a sound wave. If you're in a sound proof enclosure, you can see things happening outside, but they appear to not be making any noise. Why? Because your ears are not absorbing any energy due to sound waves.

The same is true for a tree falling in the woods. If no one is around (assuming no animals around either) then no it does not make a sound... what happens is the kinetic energy of the falling tree is transformed partially to heat, and partially to sound waves, (potentially partially to light), (the ground also absorbs some of the energy, as does the tree, but we'll neglect that for the sake of this conversation). The portion of the energy that goes into producing sound waves propagates outwards, eventually dissipating. If no one hears this sound wave before it dissipates, then no, it did not make a sound.

giantsfan · 02-09-2009, 11:43 PM

Now you're just lying to people, I've totally seen wind, the same night I realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

eaglesalltheway · 02-10-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

What if we all see different colors?

How would we know? We grew up learning that it's a particular name, but what if it's actually a completely different color?

I think about that **** all the time. That is a mind****.

Brothgar · 02-10-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

What if we all see different colors?

How would we know? We grew up learning that it's a particular name, but what if it's actually a completely different color?

Truth is that we do. We don't see the full spectrum of waves only the ones in a relatively very small area of the wave spectrum. Some animals can see IR and UV we can't.

eaglesalltheway · 02-10-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223

Truth is that we do. We don't see the full spectrum of waves only the ones in a relatively very small area of the wave spectrum. Some animals can see IR and UV we can't.

He means if I see red as red, and you see red as blue, not different spectrums, just the colors in our visible spectrum.

brat316 · 02-10-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

its like asking does darkness exist or cold?

Darkness is actually just the absence of light, and the same thing for cold the absence of heat.

Neither one really exists but you know its there

here is the solution.

Also about the color thing, everyone see different shades of colors, and we were told this color you see is called this. So ever time we see that color automatically we think back and be like its called this.

wicket · 02-10-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH

Cogito ergo sum is a bunch of crap. What if the ability to think means one is actually not alive, but dead?

Jeah but cogito ergo sum is usually mistranslated, even in philosophical books. The idea behind is not that the fact of being alive is proved by the thinking but that the thinking makes being alive superior to being dead. Our cognitive function is what makes us human beings. (dunno if im explaining it well)