The Pats Big 3

bored of education · 02-12-2009, 09:46 AM

Wilfork, Warren and Seymour.

What are the contrct situations for these guys. I think they should def. keep Wilfork but the other 2 are expendable, Seymour had a great 3-4 years and is still very solid. warren is in his peak right now and is a top 3-3 3-4 DE.

They had a tough season as a collective this pat year but what do you think the Pats should do with these 3? Seymour is older yes, Warren is peaking right now and Wilfork is a dirty monster.

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 10:36 AM

I think that's a fair assessment. I'm pretty sure we'll try to keep them all if we can. We've demonstrated before that we're willing to advance substantial financial resources into keeping that line together. Might not be able to do that, but I think we'll try. Seymour is STILL the best player on the line, IMO. He had a real great year last and is finally starting to put his prior years of injury behind him. He's probably the most likely to leave out of any of them though. Both he and Wilfork are free agents after this year. Makes us trading Cassel all the more imperative. Pretty sure we have Warren under contract for a few more years.

bored of education · 02-12-2009, 11:06 AM

When Seymour is healthy he is a friggen beast. They may have the most talented front 3..well they should..they are all 1st rounders. :D

But I thought they all were becomming from agents in consecutive years, I maybe wrong though for the 5th time ever. Keeping those three makes your LBs alot better.

Geo · 02-12-2009, 11:12 AM

Wilfork, Seymour, and Jarvis Green are all free agents after 2009. Warren is signed through 2013.

I expect Wilfork to definitely be re-signed. Maybe one of Seymour and Green, who turn 30 years old and 31 years old respectively this season, though.

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 11:14 AM

Wilfork won't be allowed to leave. He's the key to it all. Seymour has a decent chance of coming back too IMO. Some things need to be moved around to work, but the Patriots are good at that and principally want Seymour back.

bored of education · 02-12-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

Wilfork, Seymour, and Jarvis Green are all free agents after 2009. Warren is signed through 2013.

I expect Wilfork to definitely be re-signed. Maybe one of Seymour and Green, who turn 30 years old and 31 years old respectively this season, though.

Interesting. They def. need to extend/re-sign Wilfork.

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bored of education

Interesting. They def. need to extend/re-sign Wilfork.

I would think we would go as far as to franchise him if we couldn't work a deal out with him. We can't afford to lose him.

bored of education · 02-12-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

I would think we would go as far as to franchise him if we couldn't work a deal out with him. We can't afford to lose him.

A beast of a NT like him are a dime a dozen. Look at how solid hampton has been for Pitt for years. It is probably one of the hardest positions to replace with even a 'solid' NT.

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bored of education

A beast of a NT like him are a dime a dozen. Look at how solid hampton has been for Pitt for years. It is probably one of the hardest positions to replace with even a 'solid' NT.

Yeah, far and away the guy on our defensive line. Enables everyone else to get loose.

3-4 DE is much easier to find if you're looking. I think we'll take a look at one of the defensive tackles next year if we get the chance. Wouldn't mind finding a way to land Vince Oghobaase.

Geo · 02-12-2009, 12:04 PM

I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

I don't think we will. We have some holes to be filled for this year before we can start looking towards the future. If he somehow fell to the second, yeah, I could see it...but I don't think we would use our first round pick on him.

bored of education · 02-12-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

That is the reason I made this thread. I really think they would take a look at him even though they have other needs. He might just be the BPA at that time.

FlyingElvis · 02-12-2009, 01:05 PM

BPA always seems to be the way, and even when they clearly have a guy targeted (Mayo) they manage to value him right while correctly predicting what the teams around them will do with their picks.

Keeping Seymour, Green and Wilfork is a stretch. Wilfork is the youngest and clearly the most difficult to replace so I'd say he stays. However, I also think he will demand top dollar and that could make it tough.

I won't be surprised if they draft a replacement at one of those spots and 'shock' everyone on draft day. I don't know enough about the prospects to say I like anyone in particular, but if there's a solid option that could play situationally in 2009 while warming up & learning to take over the spot in 2010 I'd be ok with it. But I still think I'm the only Pats fan on here that doesn't believe CB is a pressing need.

Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE & OT
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB OLB CB

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE & OT
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB OLB CB

I think that's the biggest discussion here. What we actually need. By that system, I would have something like this.

Absolute must = S & CB
Need = OLB and RT
Need by 2010 =DE
Jury still out = HB WR TE

nepg · 02-12-2009, 01:18 PM

Seymour had his best year as a pro in 2008. Ty Warren had a "down" year because of injuries, and Wilfork was his standard self. Warren's signed through 2013, but I think Seymour and Wilfork are on the last year of their respective contracts. The Pats will keep these guys together because it's going to be nigh impossible to replace them.
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thule · 02-12-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

Names I've heard that have been surrounding the Pats are Brandon Pettigrew and Rashad Johnson.

FlyingElvis · 02-12-2009, 01:26 PM

No ILB anywhere in there, Electric? Was that an oversight, or are you expecting one of the young guys to be the long term solution alongside Mayo?

I have to bump that OLB spot up, though. You're right on that one, since Vrabel & Thomas are both up there in age. Even if one of the young guys becomes a solid long term solution (c'mon Crable!!) we still need a second OLB and I'm not convinced Woods is anything more than a special teams guy.

Amended version:

Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE RT OLB
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB CB

(OT changed to RT for accuracy)

nepg · 02-12-2009, 01:28 PM

If Tyson Jackson somehow fell to #48, I don't see anyway they can pass him up... To lock up a guy like that for 4 years at a 2nd round pick's salary? No brainer. I don't see how he falls there though... It will be interesting to see what happens with Matt Cassel. I think the Pats definitely will want Jackson at the right spot, but at #23, they have huge possibilities staring them in the face... Adding depth might not be an option.
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ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

No ILB anywhere in there, Electric? Was that an oversight, or are you expecting one of the young guys to be the long term solution alongside Mayo?

I have to bump that OLB spot up, though. You're right on that one, since Vrabel & Thomas are both up there in age. Even if one of the young guys becomes a solid long term solution (c'mon Crable!!) we still need a second OLB and I'm not convinced Woods is anything more than a special teams guy.

Amended version:

Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE RT OLB
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB CB

(OT changed to RT for accuracy)

I just don't see ILB as a need right now. I don't really get why people think it's such a pressing need. We already got our super star at the position in Mayo last year. All we really need now in a thumper who can play the Ted Johnson/Tedy Bruschi role. Don't think it's even a direct "need" right now either. Vrabel is a much better fit inside than outside right now. I suppose if I had to, I would say that it's a need for 2010, but I think the best option is for us to draft a young OLB who can rush the passer and put Vrabel inside for the time being.

FlyingElvis · 02-12-2009, 01:43 PM

hhmmm . . . maybe. I suppose a combo of Vrabel & Tedy inside w/Mayo would work, but that would only be a one year solution. I guess it comes down to the youth on the roster at the outside spots with no names at all on the roster for the inside. But you're saying it's not a pressing need followed by saying 'we need a thumper' to go with Mayo.

I'm not saying trade the farm to get a blue chipper, but it has to be a day one consideration. With some depth at the position this year I'd like to see it done this April.

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

hhmmm . . . maybe. I suppose a combo of Vrabel & Tedy inside w/Mayo would work, but that would only be a one year solution. I guess it comes down to the youth on the roster at the outside spots with no names at all on the roster for the inside. But you're saying it's not a pressing need followed by saying 'we need a thumper' to go with Mayo.

I'm not saying trade the farm to get a blue chipper, but it has to be a day one consideration. With some depth at the position this year I'd like to see it done this April.

I don't even think it would be a combo though. Vrabel isn't an outside linebacker anymore. He's most a step. He's fine inside where he can just come up and hit put I don't trust him with the responsibility of being a full time OLB anymore. He's played inside for the entire year(for the most part anyway) a couple of years ago.

I defiantly think we need a thumper type, but guys like that are pretty easy to find. Don't think we have to worry about it this year. It might be nice to pickup some depth at that position this year, but I don't think we have to take an inside linebacker anywhere before the fourth round. Jaspar Brinkley would be the perfect guy to get, IMO. At the very least, gives us a bit of depth and could probably start in a couple years.

FlyingElvis · 02-12-2009, 01:58 PM

Vrabel is definitely done at OLB. The problem is he was pushed around quite a bit when he was moved inside. But perhaps Mayo is enough to offset that. When it was Tedy & Vrabel inside together it was . . . painful to watch.

Ok, I'm off to review the ILB prospects then.

nepg · 02-12-2009, 02:10 PM

Well Crable is the type of player that can play either inside or outside in a 3-4. Brian Cushing fits that mold as well if you were looking at 2009 draft prospects. I'd like Clay Matthews, but it looks like he'll be overdrafted.
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hannah73 · 02-12-2009, 02:24 PM

So few ILB would fit the pats, ie how are they at taking on blockers? That's difficult to project from someone in a 4-3 who didn't have to do it.

Jaspar Brinkley comes to mind. He has the size anyway.

Not sure how he is in coverage.

ElectricEye · 02-12-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Vrabel is definitely done at OLB. The problem is he was pushed around quite a bit when he was moved inside. But perhaps Mayo is enough to offset that. When it was Tedy & Vrabel inside together it was . . . painful to watch.

Ok, I'm off to review the ILB prospects then.

He did? I don't know. I think he handled it quite well. He hasn't been asked to do it extensively since AT came to town, but I really thought Vrabel was at his best when he was playing inside, outside of a couple years ago when he really went off.