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Old 03-03-2009, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Oh trust me I saw it in him in the preseason of 2007. If you have any tapes...watch him break tackles. Just unbelievable. With Ward out of the picture, I expect Bradshaw to absolutely burst on to the scene and tear it up.
Yup, going back to his Marshall days he showed the same burst and ability to break tackles. That's why more I see of Jacobs the more I miss the skill set Barber had for us.

Ward is a good player, and has a mix of physical element, ability to break tackles and can catch the ball, but I think we played it well. We didn't really need to sign him again, and I am glad the FO and staff realized this.

It's a good signing for the Bucs. Ward got his money and is a good success story, and hopefully the Bucs get what they paid for. Would I be surprised if he didn't do as well? No, because I think Ward had the benefit of our OL, FB, and running concepts, which I haven't seen used by other teams. But I wish him well, I liked him as a player, and story on how we got him.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Ward and Graham make a solid RB duo.

Tampa is a QB away from being a SB contender. I compare them very favorably to Minny.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Oh and to chime in on the Ward/Bradshaw debate...Bradshaw is better. Much better actually.

I see Bradshaw as having Brian Westbrook potential. I think that highly of him.

I think our team as a whole did not perform as well in the playoffs vs last year because we didn't use Bradshaw.

last year's playoffs when we won the SB, Bradshaw was the MVP of our run game.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Look Bradshaw has better ability and as giants fans we know this, but the question is with a bigger spotlight and the longer leash that comes with it will do something stupid to get himself in trouble again, as well as obvious questions about how he'll hold up getting more carries and more attention. That's why I don't want to premature about crowning him better than ward, wardclearly wasn't the most physically talented RB, but he was a very steady and consistent contributer in a variety of ways and you didn't have to worry about him screwing up on or off the field. From all i've read ahmad's been a good soldier so far in his career but there's still the concern that he won't handle a heavier workload.

That said i'm very optimistic our running game will be significantly more explosive this season and should be just as consistent and productive with bradshaw stepping in as the number two and ware battling a rookie for the number three spot.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Look Bradshaw has better ability and as giants fans we know this, but the question is with a bigger spotlight and the longer leash that comes with it will do something stupid to get himself in trouble again, as well as obvious questions about how he'll hold up getting more carries and more attention.

I always thought Bradshaw's legal troubles were blown kind of out of proporiton. He stole a playstation. Big whoop.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I always thought Bradshaw's legal troubles were blown kind of out of proporiton. He stole a playstation. Big whoop.
Theft in a young adult makes me really question a guy's mindset. Granted there are a lot of other morally reprehensible things I don't mind, but there's just something about a disrespect for property rights that really irks me.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Look Bradshaw has better ability and as giants fans we know this, but the question is with a bigger spotlight and the longer leash that comes with it will do something stupid to get himself in trouble again, as well as obvious questions about how he'll hold up getting more carries and more attention. That's why I don't want to premature about crowning him better than ward, wardclearly wasn't the most physically talented RB, but he was a very steady and consistent contributer in a variety of ways and you didn't have to worry about him screwing up on or off the field. From all i've read ahmad's been a good soldier so far in his career but there's still the concern that he won't handle a heavier workload.

That said i'm very optimistic our running game will be significantly more explosive this season and should be just as consistent and productive with bradshaw stepping in as the number two and ware battling a rookie for the number three spot.
Your wrong, up until these last two years ward didnt do much of anything, and the reason he was consistent was because his OL and BJ. He has good vision and pounds through the whole, but he's not special. He doesn't make more than one or two people miss, i dont think ive seen that ever.

He wouldve been off our team if it wasnt for a new GM. Bradshaw is not a troublemaker, he came into a slump, i suspect because he hadnt been given the confidence because he had still not been given a chance to shine. He proved himself and had to settle for the role he already had. Bradshaw is a prototypical RB, yes he's small, but hes fast, hes agile, hes quick, he has the best vision on the team, he can break a tackle and in the middle of that break another, just do ridiculous ****, but he doesnt have the confidence or the experience to hold onto the football


That my friend is why. Ward isnt special, hes just good. Now no more repetitiveness because im tired of 20 giants fans saying the same thing. its really annoying
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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I don't think I disagree I'm just pointing that while Ward wasn't special, Bradshaw hasn't proven he's special either, at least not yet and while I'm optimistic he'll get there I'm not completely comfortable saying that he's already better than ward, because if that where the case wtf was coughlin doing not giving him double digit carries. I suspect the durability questions and fumbling questions are going to be the difference between bradshaw coming in and playing great and him losing carries to a gyu like ware who coughlin could trust more.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't think I disagree I'm just pointing that while Ward wasn't special, Bradshaw hasn't proven he's special either, at least not yet and while I'm optimistic he'll get there I'm not completely comfortable saying that he's already better than ward, because if that where the case wtf was coughlin doing not giving him double digit carries. I suspect the durability questions and fumbling questions are going to be the difference between bradshaw coming in and playing great and him losing carries to a gyu like ware who coughlin could trust more.
Bradshaw has proven he is special. The GM, Reese and the staff know this. Also any giants fan watching game in and game out knows that bradshaw has the skill set to do special things. Just watch the games since he has been drafted and watch his skill set. I was praying we wouldn't take back Ward because he would take more carries away from Bradshaw. Now with Ward gone, the BJ, Bradshaw, and Ware combo is something I know I will be looking forward to next season.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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I don't think I disagree I'm just pointing that while Ward wasn't special, Bradshaw hasn't proven he's special either, at least not yet and while I'm optimistic he'll get there I'm not completely comfortable saying that he's already better than ward, because if that where the case wtf was coughlin doing not giving him double digit carries. I suspect the durability questions and fumbling questions are going to be the difference between bradshaw coming in and playing great and him losing carries to a gyu like ware who coughlin could trust more.
ask the patriots staff if he's special, they spent alot of their time preparing for him
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Bradshaw has proven he is special. The GM, Reese and the staff know this. Also any giants fan watching game in and game out knows that bradshaw has the skill set to do special things. Just watch the games since he has been drafted and watch his skill set. I was praying we wouldn't take back Ward because he would take more carries away from Bradshaw. Now with Ward gone, the BJ, Bradshaw, and Ware combo is something I know I will be looking forward to next season.
Again not arguing with his skillset at all, but the problem is we have yet to see him stay that dangerous with the bigger workload.
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Old 03-03-2009, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Again not arguing with his skillset at all, but the problem is we have yet to see him stay that dangerous with the bigger workload.
Yeah but if the Giants and Reese had any reservations they would have brought back Ward. And usually the argument is the other way around. When you show nothing in limited time, people can say how can this player do well with more playing time. I feel very comfortable that in his limited time he showed alot to the coaches and FO.

I see your point, but I think this upcoming year barring injury it will truly be a 1-2 with 2 being more of a homerun threat.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Why wasnt Bradshaw used last year? Was it legal issues?
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Why wasnt Bradshaw used last year? Was it legal issues?
This is why alot of our fan based soured on Gilbride. It had nothing to do with legal matters some reason we stuck Bradshaw last and then when BJ got hurt, we mostly played Ward instead of sticking with the rotation system of Ward, Bradshaw and Ware. It's the rotation system that makes us dangerous.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Yeah but if the Giants and Reese had any reservations they would have brought back Ward. And usually the argument is the other way around. When you show nothing in limited time, people can say how can this player do well with more playing time. I feel very comfortable that in his limited time he showed alot to the coaches and FO.

I see your point, but I think this upcoming year barring injury it will truly be a 1-2 with 2 being more of a homerun threat.
Here's to hoping it works out well as I am excited, because you are right in that he's very explosive and incredibly tough to bring down as he has great balance to go along with a low center of gravity and strong legs that he never stops churning.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Here's to hoping it works out well as I am excited, because you are right in that he's very explosive and incredibly tough to bring down as he has great balance to go along with a low center of gravity and strong legs that he never stops churning.
And that's exactly what everyone likes about him. It's evident every time he touches the ball. He runs harder than Ward, much better vision than Ward, and his agility is much better than Wards. Ward is a RB that is the jack of all trades yet not a master of 1. So he goes everything well and has a skill set which is above avg in pass protection, pass catching, vision, agility and ability to break tackles. Stick him behind an elite OL and very good running concepts and it's not suprise he did well.

Let's not forget we evaluate backs very well. We had Tiki, BJ, Ward, Ryan Grant, Bradshaw, and Ware. Tiki retired, Grant got traded, and BJ, Ward, and Bradshaw were left. Now with Ward gone, the staff is very high on Bradshae and Ware.
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Ward and Graham make a solid RB duo.

Tampa is a QB away from being a SB contender. I compare them very favorably to Minny.
I disagree. Tampa still has ways to go before becoming playoff contenders, let alone SB contenders in my opinion. A good-franchise QB is an asset to every team and good QB play with solid play from the running game and defense can almost always lead to playoffs, but where are they going to get that QB? Also, Ward and Graham are an average, maybe slightly above average RB duo. When there are duos like Adrian Peterson + Chester Taylor, Michael Turner + Jerious Norwood, DeAngelo Williams + Jonathan Stewart, and Chris Johnson + Lendale White out there, Ward and Graham seem merely average. And that defense? The consistent players and personell (Brooks, Kiffin) are gone and who knows how the Bucs defense will handle that. Minny's defense and run game are far better than the Bucs.

I don't mean to hate on the Bucs or anything, but I think they are in rebuilding more right now. They have made some good moves in that process (Winslow, Ward), but still have some ways to go.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. Tampa still has ways to go before becoming playoff contenders, let alone SB contenders in my opinion. A good-franchise QB is an asset to every team and good QB play with solid play from the running game and defense can almost always lead to playoffs, but where are they going to get that QB? Also, Ward and Graham are an average, maybe slightly above average RB duo. When there are duos like Adrian Peterson + Chester Taylor, Michael Turner + Jerious Norwood, DeAngelo Williams + Jonathan Stewart, and Chris Johnson + Lendale White out there, Ward and Graham seem merely average. And that defense? The consistent players and personell (Brooks, Kiffin) are gone and who knows how the Bucs defense will handle that. Minny's defense and run game are far better than the Bucs.

I don't mean to hate on the Bucs or anything, but I think they are in rebuilding more right now. They have made some good moves in that process (Winslow, Ward), but still have some ways to go.
A ways to go from being playoff contenders? HAHAHA!

You do realize we were 9-3 at one point staring a 1st round bye right in the eyes. You don't just go from that to being a bottom-dweller overnight because you blew 4 games and cut some old, mediocre players.

Minny's defense is not better than ours. Not in personnel or scheme. New doesn't necessarily mean worse. Indianapolis loses "key players" on defense every year and have no problem. As long as our pass rush improves, which is a near-guarantee considering how bad it was last year, we will remain as one of the top defenses in the league.

The change in QB should not be the area of focus. The change in coaching staff should. Gruden's offense handcuffed us. We were always settling for FGs or punts. Our offense will become more dynamic with McCown at the helm, plus the addition of Winslow and likely a draft pick at WR. McCown doesn't have tons of experience, but he's proven himself when he gets opportunities.

The addition of Ward means that we have 3 backs who can play. It's not easy to establish a run game with 72 year old, 165 lb. Warrick Dunn taking the bulk of the carries. I'm not saying this means we're gonna be unstoppable, but for every negative change there's been a positive change.

I'm sorry but every team in our division has a shot at the playoffs. We're all about equal right now and the regular season will decide the rest. This is especially hilarious coming from a Falcons fan. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you guys supposed to be 5 years from making the playoffs? And the Saints were SB contenders right?
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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^^^

I enjoy reading your posts more than I do any other Bucs fan etk, and that includes those on other boards too.

It seems impossible to find a Bucs fan nowadays that can successfully balance an intelligent critical eye and a healthy amount of optimism.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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A ways to go from being playoff contenders? HAHAHA!

You do realize we were 9-3 at one point staring a 1st round bye right in the eyes. You don't just go from that to being a bottom-dweller overnight because you blew 4 games and cut some old, mediocre players.
Usually I would think so too. But when you lose to Oakland and SD at home with playoffs on the line, I think the team has a lot more troubles to be worried about.

Quote:
Minny's defense is not better than ours. Not in personnel or scheme. New doesn't necessarily mean worse. Indianapolis loses "key players" on defense every year and have no problem. As long as our pass rush improves, which is a near-guarantee considering how bad it was last year, we will remain as one of the top defenses in the league.
Well with all the players and personnel last year, Minnesota had Tampa beat in yardage defense (TB had a better scoring defense though). In terms of who has a better defense, it could go either way. I would rather have a defense with Jared Allen (who really picked it up in the 2nd half of the season), Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Chad Greenway (115 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 3 FFs), and Antoine Winfield than Gaines Adams, Barrett Ruud, Ronde Barber, and Tanard Jackson. I know I am just naming some players from the squads, but Minny's defense looks a lot better to me. And how will the Bucs defense handle the leaving of such a great DC, Monte Kiffin? Just the news of him leaving alone might have caused a breakdown for the Bucs defense. Now with a new DC, HC, and possibly a new scheme (? i dont know what the deal is for this one. i just saw someone post something about this), we will have to see how the TB defense handles the change. The talent and coaches can make a top 10 D with the Bucs, but I don't see it, not in the first year.

Quote:
The change in QB should not be the area of focus. The change in coaching staff should. Gruden's offense handcuffed us. We were always settling for FGs or punts. Our offense will become more dynamic with McCown at the helm, plus the addition of Winslow and likely a draft pick at WR. McCown doesn't have tons of experience, but he's proven himself when he gets opportunities.
I agree that Gruden may have handicapped the Bucs offense, but to say that the Bucs offense is going to be more dynamic with Luke McCown at helm may be stretching it. McCown is a journeyman back up QB who has started 7 games in his 5 year career, and that has happened for a reason. His numbers did look good for a 4 game stretch at the end of 2007, but how is he going to handle a full season? No one knows, but adding Winslow was a great idea.

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The addition of Ward means that we have 3 backs who can play. It's not easy to establish a run game with 72 year old, 165 lb. Warrick Dunn taking the bulk of the carries. I'm not saying this means we're gonna be unstoppable, but for every negative change there's been a positive change.
Derrick Ward is a great signing. I would say that he might have flourished in NY because of the great offensive line there and because he was going up against tired defenses, but Tampa Bay has a good run blocking offensive line and he should be a good addition. I don't expect 5.6 YPC again, but he will help the Bucs a lot. The trio of Derrick Ward, Earnest Graham, and Cadillac Williams (i am assuming you meant him?) is a good trio. Still nothing more than solid though.

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I'm sorry but every team in our division has a shot at the playoffs. We're all about equal right now and the regular season will decide the rest. This is especially hilarious coming from a Falcons fan. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you guys supposed to be 5 years from making the playoffs? And the Saints were SB contenders right?
Equal right now? The Panthers are coming off of a 12-4 regular season and a #2 seed in the NFC. The Falcons are coming off of an 11-5 regular season with a 23 year old franchise QB, a 26 year old 1700 yard back. and a 27 year old 1400 yard receiver. The Bucs are coming off of a 4 game losing streak that includes SD and Oakland at home and a 9-7 season.

I know that the regular season is a toss up most of the time for the NFC South and no one knows which team(s) will emerge, but I would have to put the chances of success higher for the Panthers and Falcons than the Bucs. Whether or not that happens, I think a lot of people would have to agree with this sentiment.

And I would like to think that me being a Falcons fan has nothing to do with this. The Falcons success surprised me as much as it did the rest of the NFL. I guess you could hope for everything to fall in place quickly (which is easily can), but I doubt it. That is all I am saying.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by d34ng3l021 View Post
Equal right now? The Panthers are coming off of a 12-4 regular season and a #2 seed in the NFC. The Falcons are coming off of an 11-5 regular season with a 23 year old franchise QB, a 26 year old 1700 yard back. and a 27 year old 1400 yard receiver. The Bucs are coming off of a 4 game losing streak that includes SD and Oakland at home and a 9-7 season.

I know that the regular season is a toss up most of the time for the NFC South and no one knows which team(s) will emerge, but I would have to put the chances of success higher for the Panthers and Falcons than the Bucs. Whether or not that happens, I think a lot of people would have to agree with this sentiment.

And I would like to think that me being a Falcons fan has nothing to do with this. The Falcons success surprised me as much as it did the rest of the NFL. I guess you could hope for everything to fall in place quickly (which is easily can), but I doubt it. That is all I am saying.
I'm going to focus on this part of the post, because the rest is a matter of opinion.

You're making the same mistakes every other NFL fan makes before the year. |All the teams that made the playoffs and didn't get noticeably worse should be back in the playoffs and contending for a SB". All the teams that struggled last year will continue to do so unless they make a bunch of big splash FA signings".

Unfortunately, the NFL doesn't work this way. A lot of things don't make sense in an NFL regular season. Go back a year: Falcons and Dolphins in the playoffs? Patriots and Cowboys out? lolwut? If someone predicted that at any point prior to the season, they would've been made into the next STARHEATHER.

Every year, lots of playoff teams from the previous year miss the playoffs and new teams replace them. It's a harsh reality. The Bucs made the playoffs 2 years ago and then started off 9-3 last year. They became another statistic in the end.

Every team has a good shot at the playoffs this year, except maybe 3-4. The NFC South has a high level of parity and turnover from year to year. The Panthers could easily crumble with poor QB play and a mediocre defense. The Falcons are most definitely improving on paper, and logic would tell you that they're division favorites. Matt Ryan could get bit by the sophomore jinx, sprinkle in a couple injuries and/or close losses and you got yourself an early vacation. The Saints were ravaged by injuries last year. Who knows how good they can be with momentum and a healthy season?

This Bucs team has fringe playoff contender written all over it. It's not a matter of hope, it's a trend. Surprises happen every year, but this year I refuse to be surprised. Anything can happen is my motto. I don't have any sort of expectation for the Bucs except to expect a surprise. You, on the other hand, are in a position for disappointment because you have high expectations. Just pray you don't step into the shoes of a Bucs fan.
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Old 03-06-2009, 02:50 AM    (permalink
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could not agree with the previous post any more! look at gb, perfect example... 2007 13-3 lost in ot of nfc champ. game 2008 6-10. 21 of 22 starters back, only favre left but rodgers put up 4000 yrds 32 total tds and 14 int so that wasnt it. so what was it? close games. in 07 pack were 5-0 in games decided by 3 points or less, 08? 0-7. it was brutal but thats how the **** crumbles in the nfl year to year... hears to the ball bouncing the packers way this year.
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Atlanta had quite a few close wins this past year. OT against us. That INSANE game against the Bears where Chicago tried that stupid pooch kick giving them several seconds to complete a pass and try a kick, which Elam made of course.

In Phil Steele's college football preview, one of his factors in predicting wins/losses is the team's close wins/losses from the past year. If you win a lot of close games, you typically have a worse record the next year, and it works the same with close losses. You can't get lucky all the time.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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The Bucs need to be aggressive in going after Mark Sanchez. And if they can't work out a deal to get him, they need to just grab the best available DE or WR, depending on who's on the board and who grades out higher.

I think Hakeem Nicks would be a boss in a WCO.

If Rak, Brown or English are on the board when theyre up at bat though, they should start looking into that as well.

If they do nab Sanchez though, I think its a must that he sits a year, regardless. He needs to be developed slowly.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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The reason that the Bucs are the least favoured team in the NFCS is simple: QB. That is where it starts and ends. McCown has proven nothing, and the Bucs won't go anywhere unless he outperforms previous indications.

Might happen, might not. They're not out of the running for the playoffs, but until McCown shows something, Ward and Graham will be seeing 8 in the box all day long.
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