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Old 03-05-2009, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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As a 49er fan I've seen enough of Hill for me to say he needs to be the starter for a year while we address far more urgent issues. In that time, my opinion on him may change, but for now he should be the starter, no question. Is his arm strength an issue? Sure, but show me a QB that has no weakness what so ever, to include the team around him.

Is he Joe or Steve - No
Is he a Franchise QB - Potential
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
Yeah it is. If you ask people what the two most important things about the QB position are they usually say leadership, and winning games. Hill does both of those, why can't he be the guy?

Arm strength is the most overrated quality in a QB. No he is not the smoothest athlete I have ever seen, but he wins games and at that end of the day that's the most important thing.
Arm strength is the most overrated? Do you honestly believe that? Arm strength dictates what throws a QB can make, and the more arm strength you have the more a defense has to prepare for any aspect of the passing game. If you don't have the arm strength then it minimizes what your offensive capabilities are and it shrinks the field, making the offense easier to prepare for.
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Shaun Hill can be as good as Romo, but do people actually think Romo is a championship-caliber QB? Romo is probably the most overrated quarterback of the past few years.
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
It's not that easy and cut and dry to compare. Two different systems, with different OL, and different WR, different offensive coaches, so comparing stats is pretty much not accurate. Yeah both can have equal overall production in two different systems, but that means nothing. If you want to compare them stick them on the same team, or in the same system, and then you are comparing apples to apples.
You're completely accurate in what you said, but that basically means you can never compare players unless they are teammates.
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Using stats to compare players is a complete waste of time. Last I looked 'wins' is what counts in the NFL and Romo has put up more of them, it isn't even close. Is Romo a top franchise QB, no so comparing your QB to Romo = zero. The only thing that counts in the NFL is wins and if you cannot compare him to Brady, Peyton, Eli or Roethlisberger's win totals, you had better start looking for another QB unless you have some reason to hope.
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Using stats to compare players is a complete waste of time. Last I looked 'wins' is what counts in the NFL and Romo has put up more of them, it isn't even close. Is Romo a top franchise QB, no so comparing your QB to Romo = zero. The only thing that counts in the NFL is wins and if you cannot compare him to Brady, Peyton, Eli or Roethlisberger's win totals, you had better start looking for another QB unless you have some reason to hope.
By your logic, Tony Romo is a better QB than Jay Cutler, and we all know that isn't true.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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By your logic, Tony Romo is a better QB than Jay Cutler, and we all know that isn't true.

Last I looked Denver was trying to rid itself of Cutler so what does that say about your statement. These QB's are still young enough to accomplish something during their careers, time will establish if either is truly successful.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Last I looked Denver was trying to rid itself of Cutler so what does that say about your statement. These QB's are still young enough to accomplish something during their careers, time will establish if either is truly successful.
Riiiiiight.

You do know that football is a team sport? Just ask Dan Marino. No single player can do close to enough to win a football game by themself, let alone a whole season of games.

Drew Brees is garbage also. Couldn't even make the playoffs last year.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Is this a joke? Tony Romo is a franchise QB, I can't say the same about Hill at all. Can he become a decent starter? Sure. Does he deserve a shot? Sure. Would I depend on him for the next 5-10 years? Hell no.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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San Fran made 2 offers that Warner had to reject himself. They wanted him.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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You're completely accurate in what you said, but that basically means you can never compare players unless they are teammates.
Ahhh there we go.. Yet everyone does, and this has been going on to fuel such things as video games, fantasy football and so on.

But the truth of the matter it is hard to compare the same position for two different players on two different teams. There is a boat load of different variables like I explained above. I am not saying disregard stats altogether, but I wouldn't base arguements on stats or use it as a crutch in debates.

Pro GMs for the most part differ in their approach but don't use stats as a crutch, that's why you get players with a skill set that's good but lack production, so when a GM pays a big contract for the player, fans and media don't understand, because they look for the stats. But the skill set a player has may be just as valuable for that team in that specific given system.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Arm strength is the most overrated? Do you honestly believe that? Arm strength dictates what throws a QB can make, and the more arm strength you have the more a defense has to prepare for any aspect of the passing game. If you don't have the arm strength then it minimizes what your offensive capabilities are and it shrinks the field, making the offense easier to prepare for.
That maybe be the case, but you can't say a guy can't be your franchise QB just because he doesn't have a strong arm. In that case it is overrated.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Last I looked Denver was trying to rid itself of Cutler so what does that say about your statement. These QB's are still young enough to accomplish something during their careers, time will establish if either is truly successful.
It says Denver is stupid that's what it says.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-05-2009, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Is this a joke? Tony Romo is a franchise QB, I can't say the same about Hill at all. Can he become a decent starter? Sure. Does he deserve a shot? Sure. Would I depend on him for the next 5-10 years? Hell no.
Can he become a decent starter? Have you missed the last two years?
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Can he become a decent starter? Have you missed the last two years?
Shaun Hill has never been a starter for a full season, or even the majority of one. Eight starts this year, two the year before. I was referencing a full time starter, which he clearly hasn't been for an entire season yet.
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Old 03-05-2009, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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I like Shaun Hill but the 49ers activity shows they do not want him as the starter. Singletary has been talking about a competition with Hill and Smith. The 49ers seem to desperately want to re-sign Smith. Heck, Singletary even listed QB as a need in his season ending press conference. And then theres the pursuit of Kurt Warner.

I wouldnt mind Shaun Hill starting for a year or 2 but with their actions this offseason im pretty convinced the 49ers FO doesnt want him to start at all.
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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That maybe be the case, but you can't say a guy can't be your franchise QB just because he doesn't have a strong arm. In that case it is overrated.
For the success and breakdown of any quarterback, whether that's a "franchise" QB or a backup, a quarterback's arm strength is important. It's not a rule that your "franchise" QB, or however you look at Hill, that he has a strong arm, but more times than not a QB with a stronger arm will have more success and be considered far more than one without arm strength.
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Using stats to compare players is a complete waste of time. Last I looked 'wins' is what counts in the NFL and Romo has put up more of them, it isn't even close. Is Romo a top franchise QB, no so comparing your QB to Romo = zero.
Are wins not a stat? Also, over their first 10 games it's 7 wins to 6 in favour of Hill... Interesting if you're basing everything on wins no?
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Look at this though, if you look at his career stats, statistically speaking, the guy rounds out the top 3rd of the leagues QB's. Look at his Comp %, QB rating, etc. Hell, his TD/ INt is beter then Cutler's and there is no doubt that Cutler is a franchise QB (not a knock against Cutler - just using him as an example). I could also explain all the front office reactions and press releases regarding the QB situation as "wagging the dog". Until, the guy gets his shot as a full time starter for a full year, how can you say he can't lead the team for the next 5 - 6 years.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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For the success and breakdown of any quarterback, whether that's a "franchise" QB or a backup, a quarterback's arm strength is important. It's not a rule that your "franchise" QB, or however you look at Hill, that he has a strong arm, but more times than not a QB with a stronger arm will have more success and be considered far more than one without arm strength.
Doesn't matter how strong your arm is if the accuracy isn't there and the instincts too.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Hill is a decent starting QB. Thats all. He isnt going to get you guys a playoff win. You might have a chance at making the playoffs since your division is week. Id suggest drafting Sanchez
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't matter how strong your arm is if the accuracy isn't there and the instincts too.
It's a two way street. You can say what you have above, but you can be the most accurate passer in the world but if you can't get the ball there in a timely matter then it's useless. But more times than not teams will take a chance on the guy that can get the ball there and hope the accuracy comes around, example Rhett Bomar.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Dammit Abaddon, why did you bring this up? Hill isn't getting any sexier and that's what it takes to get the "franchise QB" tag from other fans. Let's let him perform well for a full season and that will open some eyes.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:45 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
It's a two way street. You can say what you have above, but you can be the most accurate passer in the world but if you can't get the ball there in a timely matter then it's useless. But more times than not teams will take a chance on the guy that can get the ball there and hope the accuracy comes around, example Rhett Bomar.
I still don't see how that makes arm strength not the most overrated attribute in a QB,
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:45 PM    (permalink
OzTitan
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6.9 v 8.5 YPA while the 8.5YPA QB has +3% completion is a pretty big deal statistically. It says the 8+ YPA QB has had far more bigger plays.

Yes, Romo's environment helped that, but nobody thinks about stuff like supporting cast in the midst of it happening, and it's in the midst of it happening where the legend/reputation/impression is formed.

That, and he's a Cowboy throwing to other Cowboys.
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