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Old 03-22-2009, 01:59 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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That would be absolutely ******** for Cleveland. Matt Millen wouldn't make that trade.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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That would be absolutely ******** for Cleveland. Matt Millen wouldn't make that trade.
A 1st round value for a backup QB and disgrunttled DT, why wouldn't Cleveland do that deal?
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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A 1st round value for a backup QB and disgrunttled DT, why wouldn't Cleveland do that deal?
A very late 1st round value for a top 20 pick that has yet to even be given a chance and arguably their best defensive player.

You act like Brady Quinn is just any backup quarterback or they don't control the rights to Rogers for numerous years to come. They would have absolutely nothing to gain by that trade and there's no chance in hell they make it.
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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A very late 1st round value for a top 20 pick that has yet to even be given a chance and arguably their best defensive player.

You act like Brady Quinn is just any backup quarterback or they don't control the rights to Rogers for numerous years to come. They would have absolutely nothing to gain by that trade and there's no chance in hell they make it.
Rogers has said that we wont play for them, hence why he refused to show up for OTAs last week and wont answer Mangini's calls. Last yr we traded him for a 3rd plus a player, but the market value for the DTs were a 3rd and a 5th. Mangini prefers more of a vertical passing game, which is why he was so cold on Pennington and DA presents that type of player more adequately and is arguably the better fit in the new system.

Who cares if Quinn hasn't really been given a chance and was a high draft pick, by that thinking we must be locked into Drew Staton, though I understand the difference between a #20 pick and a mid 2nd.

The point is they have a chance to deal a luxury depth player and a disgruntled DT who wont play for them and at the same time they can move into the 1st and potentially grab an impact guy that wouldnt have fallen to them at 50.
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Rogers will show up. He's just bitching cause he can. His value is far greater now than it was then, not to mention using Matt Millen as an example of a good decision is clinically insane.

Quinn is actually a better fit for them than Anderson in terms of accuracy, decision making, and a variety of other factors.

The fact that they would have to include a pick makes your scenario even more insulting.

Bring that offer to the Browns board. I bet not one fan will think it's a good idea. Hell, I bet most Lions fans would think it's totally unrealistic.
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Rogers will show up. He's just bitching cause he can. His value is far greater now than it was then, not to mention using Matt Millen as an example of a good decision is clinically insane.

Quinn is actually a better fit for them than Anderson in terms of accuracy, decision making, and a variety of other factors.

The fact that they would have to include a pick makes your scenario even more insulting.

Bring that offer to the Browns board. I bet not one fan will think it's a good idea. Hell, I bet most Lions fans would think it's totally unrealistic.
There were 3 trades of DTs last offseason and the other 2, Stroud and Jenkins, were both 3rd and 5th so just keep believing that Millen was the only person who would have done that deal because thats just an easy way out. How is Rogers' value far better now than what it was last yr, yeah he had a good year, but the year before he had more sacks. Additionally he has now feuded with 2 clubs so other teams might start getting turned off and believe he has a poor attitude?

You dont know if Quinn is the better fit for Mangini's system, but he is the better fit for Denver's. Mangini has stated that he prefers a more vertical passing game in the past, which would lead me to believe that he would still prefer that now. He also has refused to say that Quinn is their future and if he really were then, IMO, DA would not be making so much more money than him to ride the pine. With a new Coach and GM in place they have no reason to stick by past drafted players of the fired regimine, which is exactly why I brought up my trade scenario, refering to the Cutler fiasco.

DA has acheived more in Cleveland than Quinn and if the new Coach/GM believe that Quinn is not their future they would be better off trading him now when he still has some value.
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Rogers will show up. He's just bitching cause he can. His value is far greater now than it was then, not to mention using Matt Millen as an example of a good decision is clinically insane.

Quinn is actually a better fit for them than Anderson in terms of accuracy, decision making, and a variety of other factors.

The fact that they would have to include a pick makes your scenario even more insulting.

Bring that offer to the Browns board. I bet not one fan will think it's a good idea. Hell, I bet most Lions fans would think it's totally unrealistic.


Sorry, I dont Troll like some people.
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Pointing out how wrong you are isn't trolling. It's a contribution, and you're welcome.

Trolling is picking a fight just to fight. Come up with an idea that isn't ridiculous and I'll be glad to agree.
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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There were 3 trades of DTs last offseason and the other 2, Stroud and Jenkins, were both 3rd and 5th so just keep believing that Millen was the only person who would have done that deal because thats just an easy way out. How is Rogers' value far better now than what it was last yr, yeah he had a good year, but the year before he had more sacks. Additionally he has now feuded with 2 clubs so other teams might start getting turned off and believe he has a poor attitude?

You dont know if Quinn is the better fit for Mangini's system, but he is the better fit for Denver's. Mangini has stated that he prefers a more vertical passing game in the past, which would lead me to believe that he would still prefer that now. He also has refused to say that Quinn is their future and if he really were then, IMO, DA would not be making so much more money than him to ride the pine. With a new Coach and GM in place they have no reason to stick by past drafted players of the fired regimine, which is exactly why I brought up my trade scenario, refering to the Cutler fiasco.

DA has acheived more in Cleveland than Quinn and if the new Coach/GM believe that Quinn is not their future they would be better off trading him now when he still has some value.
Shaun Rogers is worth more than a 3rd and Bodden/5th now. Probably was worth more than that to begin with last year, because idiot Millen is the one who actually set the market for Dts because Rogers was the first one traded. Based on how well Rogers played last year and how badly we missed him, Millen should have got a whole lot more for Shaun Rogers. It was a mistake to trade Rogers, Marinelli just couldn't handle his attitude and wanted to go undersized everywhere(which was a huge mistake and why we stunk in run D). Shaun Rogers and Mike Martz offense(although it had its run game/protection problems) and a little more health in 2007 compared to 2008 is the difference between 0-16 and 7-9.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Shaun Rogers is worth more than a 3rd and Bodden/5th now. Probably was worth more than that to begin with last year, because idiot Millen is the one who actually set the market for Dts because Rogers was the first one traded. Based on how well Rogers played last year and how badly we missed him, Millen should have got a whole lot more for Shaun Rogers. It was a mistake to trade Rogers, Marinelli just couldn't handle his attitude and wanted to go undersized everywhere(which was a huge mistake and why we stunk in run D). Shaun Rogers and Mike Martz offense(although it had its run game/protection problems) and a little more health in 2007 compared to 2008 is the difference between 0-16 and 7-9.
I'm pretty sure that Kris Jenkins was the first DT traded last yr, Shaun Rogers was originally traded to Ciny but the deal fell through which pushed him being traded a day later.

I think it's pretty funny that people knock on Millen so much, and I agree with most of it, but fail to recognize that the fans weren't the only people that thought Millen was a bad GM. If the deal was so bad, then why would other good GMs trade their players for the low ball price? Why wouldnt the other GMs just laugh at how bad we got ripped off last year and then set their own markets?

Yeah, Rogers was worth more than that deal last year and is worth more than that now, but it doesnt mean that he'll go for what his true value is. Draft picks are like gold in the NFL. A prime example of this was the Cassell trade, he was easily worth more than a 2nd but thats where the market was at and the Pats took it.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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but fail to recognize that the fans were the only people that thought Millen was a bad GM.
Are you ******* serious?
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Are you ******* serious?
sorry, I meant to say werent but you probably understood what I was trying to say by the rest if the paragraph
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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players don't always get traded for their value. for example- randy moss and DTs last year. end of discussion. mangini and rogers don't exactly hang out together right now so if cleveland can get some kind of value in return i'm sure they'd listen. lets get back to the trade scenarios please. hopefully they either get a deal done soon or sign stafford.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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One scenario that I'm thinking might work is:

3 team trade with Cleveland and Denver:

We give #20 and #82 to Cleveland for Brady Quinn, Shaun Rogers, and #50

We then Ship Brady Quinn, Shaun Rogers, #50, and 2010 2nd to Denver for Cutler.

Do from our standpoint we give up #20, #82, and 2010 2nd. This could put us in the ballpark in general, but it would really give us a fighting chance because we could help fill 2 of Denver's needs, QB and NT.

Cleveland might do this because they have 2 QBs so they might decide to try to get value for one of them while they can and Shaun Rogers wants out and didnt report to the OTA last week, with this package it'd give them a value of around #29. In return they'd put themselves in a prime position at #20 to either get a great compliment to Braylon, grab one of the top 2 RBs, or maybe try to package it with #82 and move up for a pass rusher. At #5 they'd probably grab Raji.

With us maybe we'd have to give up #33 instead of 50, but then maybe we could get Jarvis Moss or Tim Crowder in addition to Cutler.
If you took off #50 from the Browns I could see it working. Then it is a mid first round pick for a disgruntled NT (disgruntled yes but easily one of the top 3 NT's in the game) and a guy who really might have fallen to the second round had the Browns not traded up for him.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Wait, why does Shaun Rogers want to come back here? The strip clubs? So he can be a lazy person on a team that isn't make or break if they win? Don't get me wrong I would love to have Rogers back given our holes at DT but I think his value is a mid 1st round pick or at least a 2nd round pick which would be pick 33 in our case. I'd rather have a younger defensive player that works hard instead of Rogers, even though we need a DT. Maybe a Ron Brace or Peria Jerry or Evander Hood we'd be better off in the long run, unless of course they bust or take on the Rogers attitude.

And maybe the new GM in Cleveland values Nose Tackles. I would think he would with Haloti Ngata. And Mangini must because he and Tannebaum traded for Kris Jenkins.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Wait, why does Shaun Rogers want to come back here? The strip clubs? So he can be a lazy person on a team that isn't make or break if they win? Don't get me wrong I would love to have Rogers back given our holes at DT but I think his value is a mid 1st round pick or at least a 2nd round pick which would be pick 33 in our case. I'd rather have a younger defensive player that works hard instead of Rogers, even though we need a DT. Maybe a Ron Brace or Peria Jerry or Evander Hood we'd be better off in the long run, unless of course they bust or take on the Rogers attitude.
I think that we are thinking of shipping Rogers to Denver.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I think that we are thinking of shipping Rogers to Denver.
Oh I see now, thats still a ton to give up for Cutler with a late 1st, a 3rd and a 2nd next year when we could just take Stafford. Cutlers probably worth that much to the Broncos, but we have many holes and the ability to take Stafford. Trading for Cutler and mortgaging a good portion of our future will fix some of the problem but not all of it. Pick 1 we probably go LT but then where's the defense. Plus thats two massive contracts with pick 1 AND Cutler.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Oh, I see it's fantasy time.

"Well, I'd like the Lions to trade the #20 pick for Cutler, Ryan Clady and the #12 pick! I want it to happen so that must mean it's realistic!"



Every fan wants their team to be involved in a trade that totally works out in favor of their team. That doesn't make it realistic.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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the JETS are going trade Jenkins and Jones and draft pick for Cutler and one of the 1000 rbs Denver has.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
If you took off #50 from the Browns I could see it working. Then it is a mid first round pick for a disgruntled NT (disgruntled yes but easily one of the top 3 NT's in the game) and a guy who really might have fallen to the second round had the Browns not traded up for him.
Yeah, that is probably more realistic, I guess I was just being overly optomistic.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bhaarat316 View Post
the JETS are going trade Jenkins and Jones and draft pick for Cutler and one of the 1000 rbs Denver has.
Kellen Clemens, too.

The trade will be:: Kris Jenkins, Thomas Jones, Kellen Clemens, and #17 for Jay Cutler and a 4th Round pick.

I guarantee it!
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