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Old 03-18-2009, 08:11 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I'm not getting how he's not an all-around great player, what areas would he have to improve in to be considered an all around great back?
He fumbles WAY too much. He's injury prone. He, as Brent pointed out, is not a consistant ground gainer, and his pass protection is average at best.

Again, he's a tremendous back, and one of my favorite NFL players, but he's not the complete package.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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As someone already stated, not all systems are created equally. In a 3-4, the OLB is essentially the pass-rusher extraordinary, not the DE, so your stats are terribly misleading. I'll grant you that 6 sacks is probably about average, but in a Tampa 2 you can't be an average pass rusher. Perhaps Alex could and should be starting for other teams in the league, but I think we can do better.

Not to mention that he's never done better than 7 sacks in a season, so it's not like he's occasionally average, he's across the board average.
You said "no starting defensive end should ever average 6 sacks a year" so I included all defensive ends.

If you adjust it to just 4-3 DEs it becomes 13 out of 42 DEs. So 70% of 4-3 DEs did not get more than 6 sacks.

I was only arguing that statement, not anthing specific to Alex Brown.

Maybe you just didn't word it the way you meant it, but as that reads it is horribly wrong.
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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He fumbles WAY too much. He's injury prone. He, as Brent pointed out, is not a consistant ground gainer, and his pass protection is average at best.

Again, he's a tremendous back, and one of my favorite NFL players, but he's not the complete package.
Injury prone? If he is, then so is Portis, Bush, Steven Jackson, and any other NFL RB that has had one or more injury before...That makes no sense, you can't call him injury prone just because he had one injury.


Not a consistent ground gainer? That seems like nitpicking to me more then anything, again were talking about being a great all around back, if the best you can find is 'not a consistent ground gainer' as a reason then that just shows how many areas he is solid in.


Besides were not talking about Reggie Bush here who, like he is losing yardage 3 plays then busting the 4th for 60 yards.

I don't even consider that a knock anyway unless a guy is going backwards which Peterson never is, that's like penalizing him because he can score from anywhere on the field and saying he would be better if he consistently grinded out 130 yards.
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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Tommie Harris. He had a horrible first half and was inconsistent all season.
When you get big contacts thats what happens. Happened to Aaron Schobel and it might happen to Haynesworth
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Jeremy Trueblood - Bucs fans seem to think Donald Penn is the problem on our offensive line that needs fixing. Trueblood is a liability in every sense. Chucky agrees I see.

Gaines Adams - Supremely talented athlete and surprisingly solid against the run, but he has almost no pass rush moves or feel for the position. He's like the Michael Johnson of the NFL.
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:54 AM    (permalink
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You said "no starting defensive end should ever average 6 sacks a year" so I included all defensive ends.

If you adjust it to just 4-3 DEs it becomes 13 out of 42 DEs. So 70% of 4-3 DEs did not get more than 6 sacks.

I was only arguing that statement, not anthing specific to Alex Brown.

Maybe you just didn't word it the way you meant it, but as that reads it is horribly wrong.

BF51 really just dislikes alex brown.

The fact is, over the past two years that i've been here, bf51 has criticized, and what has alex brown done? got 10 sacks last year. if tommie harris didn't play like he was an incompetent moron, i'd maybe believe they'd get another few on the line... but, alex brown and marcus harrison were the only two bright spots on the team.

now.

"he's not that good"

ryan grant.

i cannot fathom why people in green bay praised him as being amazing, a truly fantastic story... but. really. he's just looked crappy, he's been crappy, and he has a crappy line... i think i was the only person trying my hardest to drive up the price of ryan grant last year in auctions... because i knew he'd fail.
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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This would of been an easy question had Bart Scott been with the team still but he's gone now some um....I guess the answer would be Todd Heap? But I am not sure if people still think he is good or not.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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This would of been an easy question had Bart Scott been with the team still but he's gone now some um....I guess the answer would be Todd Heap? But I am not sure if people still think he is good or not.
I'm going to have to agree with you on this. I think Heap just doesn't have the "go get it at any cost" mentality anymore, and his production has declined because of it.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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If people still think Joseph Addai is a great player, then I'd pick him.

Bob Sanders is a possibility but that has more to do with his injuries. When he is healthy he is that good.

I can't think of too many widely overrated Colts players. Maybe I just don't have a good idea of the national perception.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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BF51 really just dislikes alex brown.

The fact is, over the past two years that i've been here, bf51 has criticized, and what has alex brown done? got 10 sacks last year. if tommie harris didn't play like he was an incompetent moron, i'd maybe believe they'd get another few on the line... but, alex brown and marcus harrison were the only two bright spots on the team.
Sometimes I wonder if you even watch sports.


http://www.nfl.com/players/alexbrown...e?id=BRO246330

Show me where he got 10 sacks. He got 6, just like always.
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Im going to say some names that might surprise some Giant fans.

1. Steve Smith - he's a great slot WR and nice possession WR, but he can't really get open on his own. He can find cracks in coverage and get open, but he won't ever get open downfield, and he can't get open when you focus extra attention on him. When Burress went down and teams put a CB on Smith and shaded the inside post/slant routes with a LB in zone, Smith struggled getting open.

2. David Diehl - tremendous run blocker, but painfully poor against speed rushers as a Left Tackle. He's a PB caliber LG, but as a LT he's average. Again, great against the run, but his pass protection holds back our offense.

3. Fred Robbins - i know a lot of people think he's underrated, but I think he's more the product of being a DT with fast feet who benefits playing next to our DEs. With Canty and Bernard now on the team, we'll realize how average Robbins really was when we see how productive those 2 will be this upcoming year.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Players outside of my team:

1. Felix Jones - i think the hype he has received is uncalled for. Yes, he has 9 YPC, but he ran it 30 times! I mean come on. And he already got injured. So theres durability issues. The guy is a home run threat, but he was the 4th option on a powerhouse Dallas offense that most teams didn't account for. Put him on Tennessee and he doesn't do what Chris Johnson did. Johnson was THE offense of the Titans, and still beasted it. I don't think Jones is that type of player. Im not saying he can't be good, but he's not going to be nearly as good as fans are hoping for.

2. Ronnie Brown - i just don't think he's that good. Poor vision.

3. Asante Samuel - The guy can pick it off, but he leaves a lot to be desired as a true shut down corner. And he got shut down CB money.

4. Julius Peppers - Just never saw it with him. Inconsistent motor, lack of pass rush moves, no leadership, just untapped potential.

5. Will Smith - Fell off the planet

6. Cortland Finnegan - he's not as good as people make him out to be. He greatly benefits playing in a 2 deep safety system with 2 incredible safeties. He can be too aggressive for his own good sometimes. Great corner, but not Top 5.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Im going to say some names that might surprise some Giant fans.

1. Steve Smith - he's a great slot WR and nice possession WR, but he can't really get open on his own. He can find cracks in coverage and get open, but he won't ever get open downfield, and he can't get open when you focus extra attention on him. When Burress went down and teams put a CB on Smith and shaded the inside post/slant routes with a LB in zone, Smith struggled getting open.

2. David Diehl - tremendous run blocker, but painfully poor against speed rushers as a Left Tackle. He's a PB caliber LG, but as a LT he's average. Again, great against the run, but his pass protection holds back our offense.

3. Fred Robbins - i know a lot of people think he's underrated, but I think he's more the product of being a DT with fast feet who benefits playing next to our DEs. With Canty and Bernard now on the team, we'll realize how average Robbins really was when we see how productive those 2 will be this upcoming year.
WOW, im suprised you listed The Slot Machine and Freddy Bear, I usually consider them underated

If I had 2 say some players on our team itd be Hixon (at WR), Diehl as well, and thats pretty much it
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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3. Asante Samuel - The guy can pick it off, but he leaves a lot to be desired as a true shut down corner. And he got shut down CB money.
The Redskins gave Deangelo Hall 6 years-55 million (Samuel got 6 years 57 million). And that's after the Oakland disaster.

Now THAT'S crazy.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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The Redskins gave Deangelo Hall 6 years-55 million (Samuel got 6 years 57 million). And that's after the Oakland disaster.

In the past two years, Hall has received almost 50 million dollars in guaranteed money.


Now THAT'S crazy.
yeah, that was stupid. although im alone in thinking Hall is going to play well for them. he thrives in man coverage but can't play zone for his life, and they run a heavy man scheme in Washington.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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WOW, im suprised you listed The Slot Machine and Freddy Bear, I usually consider them underated

If I had 2 say some players on our team itd be Hixon (at WR), Diehl as well, and thats pretty much it
Smith is a good player, but he's just not as good as we think he is. He's a smart shifty possession WR with sure hands. There are a lot of those in this league.

I love the guy, Im just saying he's not as good as we think he is.

As for Freddy, again, I like the guy, but he greatly benefits from our DEs. Just watch what Canty does playing next to Osi and Tuck this year. You'll forget all about Fred Robbins rather quickly.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Nick Collins is overrated; he's a talented player, no doubt, but he's not a Pro Bowl caliber player.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:04 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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DeAngelo Hall played great once he got to Washington last season. They play a lot of man coverage, similar to Oakland, but have Landry preventing deep balls. For a corner like Hall who likes to gamble, that is very important.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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DeAngelo Hall played great once he got to Washington last season. They play a lot of man coverage, similar to Oakland, but have Landry preventing deep balls. For a corner like Hall who likes to gamble, that is very important.
I really don't think you should give 55 million dollars to a guy who constantly gets beat deep. Give Landry the money.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:11 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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I really don't think you should give 55 million dollars to a guy who constantly gets beat deep. Give Landry the money.
I think they should have held out on the big contract, but I think he deserves it more so than a player like Asante Samuel or Nate Clements. When Hall is on his game he not only can lock down receivers, but is also one of the biggest playmakers in the league at cornerback.

I would have given him a one year deal and then payed him if he performed. But he is the kind of CB who can warrent that money in that scheme. He and Landry could form something special.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Hall is just extremely undisciplined. He had years where he was lights out, then the Oakland fiasco ruined him.

He wasn't worth the money, but I think he's going to be a good player for them. the skins defense as a whole is going to be really good next year. its slept on.

i just hope they don't draft a DE.
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