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Old 04-02-2009, 10:34 AM    (permalink
THav916
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I'd use our 3rd, fifth and 1st to move up and select Rey. Then i'd take Macho at the bottom of the second, followed by Shipley in the 4th, Johnny Knox or Dominique Edison in the 5th (comp pick) Cornelius Lewis in the 6th, and Zach Potter in the 7th.

Or

Use our 3rd, fifth and 1st to move up and select Harvin. Followed by the aforementioned players,....with Brinkley in the place of Edison or Knox.

I like Brinkley,.he's tackles with authority, got nice size and athleticism,....but he's no better in coverage than Rey, doesn't use his hands any better and is considered just as unrefined if not more. (Nothing that like Rey, cannot be corrected with coaching) But i've got to give Rey the edge because of his Trojan pedigree. But i could live with him (Brinkley) later,..if we went with Harvin in the 1st.

Thanks. I guess I should have just looked at your sig.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:26 AM    (permalink
SteelCzar76
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Here's a question for you Czar, would you ever want to draft a Center or DE in the first round? The Mack/Unger/Wood combo seems like one of the best Center combo's in recent memory to me and you're against them at the very last pick in the first. As for DE, it seems like the way you view our DE's, you wouldn't want to use a pick on a DE in the first. You're pointing to guys we don't need, sexier picks, guys you personally love. I'm all about studs in the first round, I just think a stud at a position of need is the best and I think Mack/Unger/Wood/Britton/gilbert/Tyson can be studs. So what I'm getting at, is trying to figure out if most of your thoughts are just biased for players you love (Harvin and Rey), don't love the specific C's and DE's in THIS draft, or don't like C's and De's in the first round and always prefer sexier picks. Or maybe all three.


Good question Thav. I'd have to say that it's my personal philosophy that if one is drafting lets say within the top 20 picks,..and your in need of a premier Guard, Tackle or elite Defensive lineman (That's not a tweener),...pull the trigger.

When it comes to Centers however,...i would never select one in the 1st no matter what the hype,...UNLESS he was the second coming of Iron Mike, the O-line was in absoloute shambles and the said player was not only the best C available, ...but lineman period.

It's not a matter of me prefering the "sexier" prospects per se as much as it is a matter of value. I do not consider a "Decent space eater" like Jackson, a "hyped measurable speciman" like Gilbert, any of this years Mediocre and or tiny Corners, or even truly solid Centers like Mack and Wood,.. to be of equal value to Maualuga and or Harvin.

And as such ,..who says we HAVE to sit idle at 32 when we can actually go after a player whom we can have a great deal of confidence will prove to be a considerable asset as opposed to a nearly flat out gamble ? Granted,...all selections are a risk to some degree,..and i believe minimizing your risks as much as possible,..but not at the sake of completely passing on rare talent.
__________________



Rey Maualuga ILB USC
Victor "Macho" Harris CB
A.Q Shipley C
Johnny Knox WR
Zach Potter DE
Sammie Lee Hill NT


Stop giving the Steelers Unger or Mack in the 1st round !
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:36 AM    (permalink
THav916
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Good question Thav. I'd have to say that it's my personal philosophy that if one is drafting lets say within the top 20 picks,..and your in need of a premier Guard, Tackle or elite Defensive lineman (That's not a tweener),...pull the trigger.

When it comes to Centers however,...i would never select one in the 1st no matter what the hype,...UNLESS he was the second coming of Iron Mike, the O-line was in absoloute shambles and the said player was not only the best C available, ...but lineman period.

It's not a matter of me prefering the "sexier" prospects per se as much as it is a matter of value. I do not consider a "Decent space eater" like Jackson, a "hyped measurable speciman" like Gilbert, any of this years Mediocre and or tiny Corners, or even truly solid Centers like Mack and Wood,.. to be of equal value to Maualuga and or Harvin.

And as such ,..who says we HAVE to sit idle at 32 when we can actually go after a player whom we can have a great deal of confidence will prove to be a considerable asset as opposed to a nearly flat out gamble ? Granted,...all selections are a risk to some degree,..and i believe minimizing your risks as much as possible,..but not at the sake of completely passing on rare talent.
Ok, I'd say my main disagreement is how we view these players.

The players you don't like...I strongly disagree that they are simply flat out gambles.

The players you do like, I strongly disagree they are clear cut far better prospects, less risk and that much more talented.

I also disagree with your philosophy. Just because you don't value C's or DE's doesn't mean they don't have value. I'm sorry but I think this is what you fail to look at with an open mind. Value is overrated in my mind because no one can predict the future anyway. But in general, a pro bowl Center in the 1st round or a Pro Bowl DE in our system would make for great first round picks. I would gladly take another Aaron Smith in the first round. And while you try to deny it, I still think from your comments that you prefer glamorous and sexier picks in the first round.

All in all I guess that's why I like different players in the first round than you do.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:05 PM    (permalink
SteelCzar76
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Ok, I'd say my main disagreement is how we view these players.

The players you don't like...I strongly disagree that they are simply flat out gambles.

The players you do like, I strongly disagree they are clear cut far better prospects, less risk and that much more talented.

I also disagree with your philosophy. Just because you don't value C's or DE's doesn't mean they don't have value. I'm sorry but I think this is what you fail to look at with an open mind. Value is overrated in my mind because no one can predict the future anyway. But in general, a pro bowl Center in the 1st round or a Pro Bowl DE in our system would make for great first round picks. I would gladly take another Aaron Smith in the first round. And while you try to deny it, I still think from your comments that you prefer glamorous and sexier picks in the first round.

All in all I guess that's why I like different players in the first round than you do.
Is that not the beauty of free will and or personal preference Thav ? I prefer to believe that if "One is thinking like everyone else,..they are hardly thinking for themselves".

We are actually in agreement in terms of Mack, and Woods' talent,..just not whether or not they are better players than those that i consider exceptional football players.

As far as me having a preference for the sexier picks,. in terms of Wide receivers wouldn't those picks (sexy) be Crabtree or Maclin. and out of the Backers wouldn't those invariably be Curry, Orakpo, Cush and Clay ?

What i'am saying is that no one else's opinion dictates which players i consider exceptionally talented and or good fits for the Steelers,...i come to those conclusions on my own by watching these kids play, various other forms of "homework", researching their mental makeup and evaluating our needs from a perspective of "what's on the horizon" in terms priority concerning said needs.

Granted it can be argued that we have needs in terms of youth and talent along the O-line, D-line, and in the secondary,...but i also see those same needs at WR/KR and MLB. And this year in particular,...because we are returning most of a roster that just won a World title,...i feel as though we have some breathing room to go after a player in the first whom would provide immediate impact as opposed to one whom many of the Steelernation will proclaim "Great" and or elite just simply because we drafted them,...and but yet they proceed to take three to four years to beat out an aged ,average, career overacheiving starter. LOL
__________________



Rey Maualuga ILB USC
Victor "Macho" Harris CB
A.Q Shipley C
Johnny Knox WR
Zach Potter DE
Sammie Lee Hill NT


Stop giving the Steelers Unger or Mack in the 1st round !

Last edited by SteelCzar76 : 04-02-2009 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:32 PM    (permalink
THav916
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Is that not the beauty of free will and or personal preference Thav ? I prefer to believe that if "One is thinking like everyone else,..they are hardly thinking for themselves".

We are actually in agreement in terms of Mack, and Woods' talent,..just not whether or not they are better players than those that i consider exceptional football players.

As far as me having a preference for the sexier picks,. in terms of Wide receivers wouldn't those picks (sexy) be Crabtree or Maclin. and out of the Backers wouldn't those invariably be Curry, Orakpo, Cush and Clay ?

What i'am saying is that no one else's opinion dictates which players i consider exceptionally talented and or good fits for the Steelers,...i come to those conclusions on my own by watching these kids play, various other forms of "homework", researching their mental makeup and evaluating our needs from a perspective of "what's on the horizon" in terms priority concerning said needs.

Granted it can be argued that we have needs in terms of youth and talent along the O-line, D-line, and in the secondary,...but i also see those same needs at WR/KR and MLB. And this year in particular,...because we are returning most of a roster that just won a World title,...i feel as though we have some breathing room to go after a player in the first whom would provide immediate impact as opposed to one whom many of the Steelernation will proclaim "Great" and or elite just simply because we drafted them,...and but yet they proceed to take three to four years to beat out an aged ,average, career overacheiving starter. LOL
How many WR's in the draft do you rate higher than Harvin?

How many LB's higher than Rey? ILB's higher than Rey?

What players in the draft do you personally like more than Harvin and Rey?

I think Harvin could be the sexiest WR in the draft and Rey 2nd defensively to Orakpo but that's a subjective ranking anyway. But the way they are flashly and dynamic and big name/big school and more in our ball park anyway.

Do you think a player that is a Pro Bowl player at Center is an exceptional talent? Are Kevin Mawae & Nick Mangold exceptional talents? What about Faneca in prime or Logan Mankins?

Mendenhall and Sweed were sexier picks last year and they didn't start. I think we're good enough that I don't expect our first round pick, no matter the position, to start right away anyway.

You seem to be ignoring the need for Pro Bowl quality players on each line, and/or think it's easy to get later in the draft. Also, it seems like you love Rey and Harvin and therefore want him for personal reasons.

Last edited by THav916 : 04-02-2009 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:40 PM    (permalink
THav916
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I really don't even hate the draft of

Rey
Macho
Shipley
Knox
Lewis
Potter

It's got some nice players, nice talent, two offensive lineman, mid-round CB and WR. What worries me most is only taking 1 DL, a DE in the 7th round. We need youth at defensive line badly. I'd be very worried about a draft that only included 1 DL, especially with that DL being taken in the 7th round, giving about a 50/50 chance to even stay on the team.

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Old 04-02-2009, 02:09 PM    (permalink
SteelCzar76
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I really don't even hate the draft of

Rey
Macho
Shipley
Knox
Lewis
Potter

It's got some nice players, nice talent, two offensive lineman, mid-round CB and WR. What worries me most is only taking 1 DL, a DE in the 7th round. We need youth at defensive line badly. I'd be very worried about a draft that only included 1 DL, especially with that DL being taken in the 7th round, giving about a 50/50 chance to even stay on the team.
I feel your concern with this Thav (1 D-lineman late) But i just do not feel as though Gilbert or Jackson are impressive enough to take in the 1st round,..let alone future Pro Bowlers. (So why reach early for a 5 technique end, out of desperation ?) To me Gilbert has Jammal Anderson written all over him and Jackson will take at least three seasons to pan out,...if he ever does.(And IMO that's not first round talent outside of a QB)

And for the record i'am not a woman,..so i do not "Love" Rey or Harvin. I simply consider them better football players than Gilbert, Jackson, or even Mack and Wood.
__________________



Rey Maualuga ILB USC
Victor "Macho" Harris CB
A.Q Shipley C
Johnny Knox WR
Zach Potter DE
Sammie Lee Hill NT


Stop giving the Steelers Unger or Mack in the 1st round !
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:41 PM    (permalink
SteelCzar76
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I'd use our 3rd, fifth and 1st to move up and select Rey. Then i'd take Macho at the bottom of the second, followed by Shipley in the 4th, Johnny Knox or Dominique Edison in the 5th (comp pick) Cornelius Lewis in the 6th, and Zach Potter in the 7th.

Or

Use our 3rd, fifth and 1st to move up and select Harvin. Followed by the aforementioned players,....with Brinkley in the place of Edison or Knox.

I like Brinkley,.he's tackles with authority, got nice size and athleticism,....but he's no better in coverage than Rey, doesn't use his hands any better and is considered just as unrefined if not more. (Nothing that like Rey, cannot be corrected with coaching) But i've got to give Rey the edge because of his Trojan pedigree. But i could live with him (Brinkley) later,..if we went with Harvin in the 1st.
Correction,...i'd have to use our 1st, 3rd, 5th and next years 3rd. (Per draft value chart),.......
__________________



Rey Maualuga ILB USC
Victor "Macho" Harris CB
A.Q Shipley C
Johnny Knox WR
Zach Potter DE
Sammie Lee Hill NT


Stop giving the Steelers Unger or Mack in the 1st round !
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Old 04-02-2009, 04:46 PM    (permalink
SteelCzar76
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On a different note Cutler has been traded to the Bears. What do you think that the odds are that Denver packages their 1st rnd pick along with that of Chicago's to trade up with let's say,...KC,..to select Mark Sanchez or Stafford ?(Depending upon whom goes 1st ?)
__________________



Rey Maualuga ILB USC
Victor "Macho" Harris CB
A.Q Shipley C
Johnny Knox WR
Zach Potter DE
Sammie Lee Hill NT


Stop giving the Steelers Unger or Mack in the 1st round !
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Old 04-02-2009, 04:47 PM    (permalink
THav916
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I feel your concern with this Thav (1 D-lineman late) But i just do not feel as though Gilbert or Jackson are impressive enough to take in the 1st round,..let alone future Pro Bowlers. (So why reach early for a 5 technique end, out of desperation ?) To me Gilbert has Jammal Anderson written all over him and Jackson will take at least three seasons to pan out,...if he ever does.(And IMO that's not first round talent outside of a QB)

And for the record i'am not a woman,..so i do not "Love" Rey or Harvin. I simply consider them better football players than Gilbert, Jackson, or even Mack and Wood.
It's a reach in your opinion. I hope you realize that it's you're opinion and not necessarily true (as I realize my opinion is not truth either). Patriots seemed to be 'reaching' for Logan Mankins. Trading up for Rey or Harvin could be a reach, too.

Thanks for the clarification on the male/female. Maybe you're trying to be funny, but I think it's quite obvious if anyone talks about 'Loving' a football player, it's known what that means. I knew originally this conversation would go nowhere. How bout you just don't respond and I'll stop as well.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:18 PM    (permalink
SteelCzar76
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It's a reach in your opinion. I hope you realize that it's you're opinion and not necessarily true (as I realize my opinion is not truth either). Patriots seemed to be 'reaching' for Logan Mankins. Trading up for Rey or Harvin could be a reach, too.

Thanks for the clarification on the male/female. Maybe you're trying to be funny, but I think it's quite obvious if anyone talks about 'Loving' a football player, it's known what that means. I knew originally this conversation would go nowhere. How bout you just don't respond and I'll stop as well.

LOL,..it's good Thav. "Ya know,..if i thought you were'nt my friend,...i don't know if i could bear it?" Let's just agree to disagree,..but at the same time gain insight and or enlightenment.
__________________



Rey Maualuga ILB USC
Victor "Macho" Harris CB
A.Q Shipley C
Johnny Knox WR
Zach Potter DE
Sammie Lee Hill NT


Stop giving the Steelers Unger or Mack in the 1st round !
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