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Old 03-31-2009, 03:04 PM    (permalink
JJKID
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Default Lions QB Draft Blunders; Do the Right thing

Lets take a look At Lions QB's Drafted in the first two rounds since 1986. This doesn't mention the 11 million dollar Mistake i call Scott Mitchell. Also the "only reason you have a job is Barry Sanders" Rodney Pete.
2007-43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State
2002- 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1998-60 Charlie Batch QB Eastern Michigan
1990-7 Andre Ware QB Houston
1986-12 Chuck Long QB Iowa

The Lions have a long history of Horrible QB's. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen. When you have a front office who gets rid of talent and makes no effort to improve so much so that A legend Like Barry Sanders won't return you know you have an organization who doesn't want to when titles. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen.
So this your we will waste another draft pick on QB how has no supporting cast and he will take such a beating that his confidence will be shot and he will never reach his potential. He will be another Joey Harrington. Lets Pick up an offensive line and a defense that will keep the other team under 20 something points a game. Then we can draft a QB who will have a chance to succeed. To many great prospects at the QB position have been busts. But solid OT's or Defensive front positions are always a win. Do the Right thing!!!
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JJKID View Post
Lets take a look At Lions QB's Drafted in the first two rounds since 1986. This doesn't mention the 11 million dollar Mistake i call Scott Mitchell. Also the "only reason you have a job is Barry Sanders" Rodney Pete.
2007-43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State
2002- 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1998-60 Charlie Batch QB Eastern Michigan
1990-7 Andre Ware QB Houston
1986-12 Chuck Long QB Iowa

The Lions have a long history of Horrible QB's. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen. When you have a front office who gets rid of talent and makes no effort to improve so much so that A legend Like Barry Sanders won't return you know you have an organization who doesn't want to when titles. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen.
So this your we will waste another draft pick on QB how has no supporting cast and he will take such a beating that his confidence will be shot and he will never reach his potential. He will be another Joey Harrington. Lets Pick up an offensive line and a defense that will keep the other team under 20 something points a game. Then we can draft a QB who will have a chance to succeed. To many great prospects at the QB position have been busts. But solid OT's or Defensive front positions are always a win. Do the Right thing!!!
Stockar McDougle and Jeff Backus ftw!!!!! :D
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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at some point they just have to struck gold
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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So who's gonna be our starting QB next year? Just sign another Free Agent? Sounds like a recipe for success to me.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JJKID View Post
Lets take a look At Lions QB's Drafted in the first two rounds since 1986. This doesn't mention the 11 million dollar Mistake i call Scott Mitchell. Also the "only reason you have a job is Barry Sanders" Rodney Pete.
2007-43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State
2002- 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1998-60 Charlie Batch QB Eastern Michigan
1990-7 Andre Ware QB Houston
1986-12 Chuck Long QB Iowa

The Lions have a long history of Horrible QB's. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen. When you have a front office who gets rid of talent and makes no effort to improve so much so that A legend Like Barry Sanders won't return you know you have an organization who doesn't want to when titles. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen.
So this your we will waste another draft pick on QB how has no supporting cast and he will take such a beating that his confidence will be shot and he will never reach his potential. He will be another Joey Harrington. Lets Pick up an offensive line and a defense that will keep the other team under 20 something points a game. Then we can draft a QB who will have a chance to succeed. To many great prospects at the QB position have been busts. But solid OT's or Defensive front positions are always a win. Do the Right thing!!!
You can't let a draft pick from 1986,1990 or even 2002 sway your opinions. Thats called being a ***** GM.

And if anything Joey Harrington coming from a spread should sway our opinion to DRAFT Stafford because next year is littered with spread QBs with amazing stats. Passing on Stafford is more similar to RT Stockar McDougle,LT Jeff Backus(needs more strength and run blocking, similar to Jason Smith although Smith is much better pass blocker and nastier than Backus then a spread QB in Joey.

Stafford will need some Oline help(could get some at guard later in this draft), but if he has a quick release and is a good decision maker and actually pans out it will greatly help this team for the next 12 years. Risk we need to take. Basically either you need a franchise QB(young or old, Warner is a HOFer) with some help, or you need every other piece perfectly in place to have a good team and even then you can't win in the playoffs without the franchise QB.(see Titans,Vikings). It'll be easier to find the franchise QB with a Stafford instead of building up this terrible D and Oline perfectly.

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Old 03-31-2009, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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You're saying the Lions should let fear dictate the draft. Nonsense. If they let fear dictate the draft they would have passed on Calvin Johnson because of Charles Rodgers, Mike Williams and Roy Williams.

Picking a QB doesn't stop a team from building an O-line. The Lions have another first round pick, a high 2nd rounder and numerous other picks. They already have 3 first round OT's on their roster anyway: Backus, Cherilus and Foster. How's that working out?

The Lions have many busts at many position in their history. Should they just not draft? No, they should forget about the past and take the best players for thier team in 2009 and beyond. Stafford will be the pick and is the right pick.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Stockar McDougle and Jeff Backus ftw!!!!! :D
Aaron Gibson! :D
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Their blunders should not prevent them from drafting Stafford. Look how Calvin turned out.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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So this your we will waste another draft pick on QB how has no supporting cast and he will take such a beating that his confidence will be shot and he will never reach his potential. He will be another Joey Harrington.
This in particular is a fallacious argument and also pegs you as one of those "It's the Lions' fault for ruining Joey" guys from a few years back. I HATED that argument.

Harrington was and is a bad QB. Plain and simple. If he was any good, he would have got his MAGICAL CONFIDENCE back with another team and put his career back together.

Real QB's don't lose confidence regardless of the situation around them. Peyton Manning went 3-13 his rookie year and got totally railed on by Jim Mora. Drew Brees went 10-18 in his first three years, got benched, and had the Chargers draft another "QB of the future" on him.

I agree that the Lions don't have the ideal team for a QB to have success with right now. But they will need one before they can have a winning team anyway. If they think Stafford is that guy, then they should do it.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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If he was any good, he would have got his MAGICAL CONFIDENCE back with another team and put his career back together.
Its rather difficult to unlearn things in the NFL. Its not just MAGICAL CONFIDENCE. There are times where coaches can teach quarterbacks not to take chances and that can be difficult to unlearn.

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Real QB's don't lose confidence regardless of the situation around them.
Does this include David Carr?

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Peyton Manning went 3-13 his rookie year and got totally railed on by Jim Mora. Drew Brees went 10-18 in his first three years, got benched, and had the Chargers draft another "QB of the future" on him.
I see a certain level of irony because at the time, I was one of the VERY few people who thought San Diego should not draft a QB and that Drew Brees needed a better chance with some better surrounding talent. Sometimes thats all QB's really need. And they don't always get it.
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JJKID View Post
Lets take a look At Lions QB's Drafted in the first two rounds since 1986. This doesn't mention the 11 million dollar Mistake i call Scott Mitchell. Also the "only reason you have a job is Barry Sanders" Rodney Pete.
2007-43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State
2002- 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1998-60 Charlie Batch QB Eastern Michigan
1990-7 Andre Ware QB Houston
1986-12 Chuck Long QB Iowa

The Lions have a long history of Horrible QB's. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen. When you have a front office who gets rid of talent and makes no effort to improve so much so that A legend Like Barry Sanders won't return you know you have an organization who doesn't want to when titles. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen.
So this your we will waste another draft pick on QB how has no supporting cast and he will take such a beating that his confidence will be shot and he will never reach his potential. He will be another Joey Harrington. Lets Pick up an offensive line and a defense that will keep the other team under 20 something points a game. Then we can draft a QB who will have a chance to succeed. To many great prospects at the QB position have been busts. But solid OT's or Defensive front positions are always a win. Do the Right thing!!!
Your argument won't fly too much on here. We're for the most part all pro Stafford. No offense but if you look at the colleges you listed for those qb's the Lions drafted their programs were far inferior to Stafford's Georgia program. Stafford's a different breed than the rest of those guys.

He is not small school.
He is not from a gimmick offense.
He is not an "all smiles" attitude.
You can make your flawed argument to not take Stafford based on history or you can get the player that can transcend this franchise into the right direction, something Jason Smith cannot do.

If you like Matt Ryan, you'll like Matthew Stafford.
If you like Jay Cutler, you'll love Matthew Stafford.
If you like Brett Favre, you'll idolize Matthew Stafford.

Everyone in different circles, such as the clowns on mlive think that just because its a QB, its a Millen pick, or that Ford is tapping the hand.

A new day is dawning. You can't get an offensive tackle from BAYLOR!
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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I wonder if thats what the Colts said before they drafted Peyton Manning??

No it was probably what the Chargers said before Phillip Rivers...

Oh wait...
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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this is just a stupid idea in general. So your saying we are cursed for QBs and should never draft one again?

Its a ridiculous statement just like everyone else said the same went for WR before CJ.

Your basically saying we should sign a new journeyman QB every 2 years.
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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The CJ point is a really good one, I mean no one on Earth would have thought we should draft a WR for the fourth time in five years, yet by draft time CJ had made it obvious he was a player that couldn't be passed on, and look at him, he's head and shoulders above all of the other three we drafted put together.

Stafford has done everything he needed to do since the end of last season. He won his bowl game by putting his team on his back, aced all of his workouts, aced the Wonderlic, and impressed the Lions coaches in their X-and-O's session if reports are correct.

You cannot make decisions based on past mistakes, especially when they're someone else's mistakes. Double especially when they're Matt Millen's mistakes.
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Jeff Backus
Stockar McDougle
Aaron Gibson
Juan Roque

All drafted in the first two rounds.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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I suspect Tom Kowalski sent this guy here from MLive.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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I suspect Tom Kowalski sent this guy here from MLive.
I wasn't aware that anyone liked Killer enough to do anything for him.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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I wanna know how many Baylor games, the average fan has seen this past year. I'm not talking about hardcore draftniks like us, but your average college football fan.

The reason I say this is because some moron called into the radio talking about how the combine and pro days are pointless and how game tape is all that matters. Then he says that Stafford sucks on film and proceeds to talk up Jason Smith. I consider myself a hardcore draftnik and I only saw Baylor play twice this year. Yet, apparently this clown has seen Jason Smith enough times to conclude that he is much better on tape.

The sad reality is that most of these people who call into the radio or post on mlive pimping Jason Smith, have never seen him play
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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I doubt the people who want the Lions to take Jason Smith on Mlive and that call in on the radio knew who he was in December.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:01 AM    (permalink
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I'd still trade for Cutler at the drop of a hat. Denver blew it when they hired a very young inexperienced HC who obviously doesn't have people powers needed to be successful. Cutler is a steal at this point. No learning curve, proven NFL starting QB, has the arm to be very successful, and throwing to Johnson would be a dream for Detroit fans. I see little risk and a huge reward for the team that gets Cutler.
Drafting Stafford is OK if there aren't better options but he's ranked somewhere between 6 and 8 and that means he carries a huge bust factor with him. Why take the chance if you don't have to????
This is one of the worst drafts I have seen in my 50 odd years of following the draft, maybe even the worst in NFL history, and anybody who thinks because we have 2 first rounders and a high second rounder guarantees 3 top starting prospects is whistling in the wind. Mayhew has a tough road to hoe in this draft where even the more experienced, successful GM's will struggle to find talent. It is quite possible that we draft 3 flops or at least huge disappointments come the end of the month. If Cutler is there for the grabbing, go get him and put all the worry to rest and we can dare to dream with a solid starting QB in place.
People talk about Jason Smith Eugene Monroe or Aaron Curry like they are safer picks. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Smith is about a raw a top 5 pick as I have ever seen and carries an immense bust factor with him and probably at best will be a solid but unspectacular LT in the NFL. He has no experience as a run blocker and he is rated the 3rd best pass blocker in this year's draft, hardly a recipe for greatness. It is being reported on NFL Network that teams are really concerned about Monroe's knees, if it's true he won't get picked in the top 5. Curry's best position is as a SLB in a 4-3, the weakest position among LB's on a 4-3 team. SLB's help in run defense and generally cover the TE on passing plays not exactly a position that makes him an impact player and using the #1 overall pick on a SLB is ridiculous and I don't believe it has ever happened before. MLB's and WLB have been drafted high on occasion but never a SLB.

Trading for Cutler makes the most sense to me with Stafford as the second option. The Steelers, the Giants, the Colts and NE all have franchise QB's but guess what, not one of them has a LT drafted in round 1 never mind using the #1 overasll pick on one. However, 2 of them have QB's drafted #1 overall.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:04 AM    (permalink
detroit4life
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id definitly still take cutler
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Calvin & Kevin View Post
This in particular is a fallacious argument and also pegs you as one of those "It's the Lions' fault for ruining Joey" guys from a few years back. I HATED that argument.

Harrington was and is a bad QB. Plain and simple. If he was any good, he would have got his MAGICAL CONFIDENCE back with another team and put his career back together.

Real QB's don't lose confidence regardless of the situation around them. Peyton Manning went 3-13 his rookie year and got totally railed on by Jim Mora. Drew Brees went 10-18 in his first three years, got benched, and had the Chargers draft another "QB of the future" on him.

I agree that the Lions don't have the ideal team for a QB to have success with right now. But they will need one before they can have a winning team anyway. If they think Stafford is that guy, then they should do it.
Good point.

Which is exactly why I don't think any QB should "sit and learn for a year or two before playing" unless there's a QB in front of him who clearly gives the team a shot at a ring.

People always use guys like Carson Palmer as an example of why it's good to sit first, but we don't know if Palmer wouldn't have ended up just as well had he taken some lumps in the Kitna year. My guess is he would've been fine.

Like you said, good QBs deal with adversity and improve because of it. There's only one way to get experience.

Sorry to go off topic, but it was a good point and I felt the need to interject.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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Like you said, good QBs deal with adversity and improve because of it. There's only one way to get experience.
Well, let me ask the same question of you that I ask of him. Does that include David Carr?


IMO, there comes a point where adversity becomes insurmountable and even the best of us can lose faith in themselves and their own abilities.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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Yes it includes David Carr! What is he, the poster child for QB's that don't deserve to get blamed for being bad?

Honestly, though, I never felt like Carr was all that bad. When he was with the Texans, most of the time he never had good enough protection to get anything done, but when he did, he wasn't that bad. He never threw many TD's though.

Since then, he hasn't had that much of a chance, unlike Harrington who was handed another starting slot in Miami and then an honest chance to compete in Atlanta and couldn't do anything with either opportunity.

So really I don't feel like the book is totally closed on Carr. If you look at his stats in Houston, he had three seasons of over 60% completions despite getting sacked 259 times in five years (Harrington in his 4 Lions seasons was sacked 77 times). So that's pretty good to me.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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I'd be happier having a losing season in spite of a franchise qb than having a losing season because we don't have the balls to draft one.
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