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Old 04-01-2009, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
I wanna know how many Baylor games, the average fan has seen this past year. I'm not talking about hardcore draftniks like us, but your average college football fan.

The reason I say this is because some moron called into the radio talking about how the combine and pro days are pointless and how game tape is all that matters. Then he says that Stafford sucks on film and proceeds to talk up Jason Smith. I consider myself a hardcore draftnik and I only saw Baylor play twice this year. Yet, apparently this clown has seen Jason Smith enough times to conclude that he is much better on tape.

The sad reality is that most of these people who call into the radio or post on mlive pimping Jason Smith, have never seen him play
Judging from how loved he is on this site, I don't think many have seen ANY of Jason Smith.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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I would still trade for Cutler too, but I don't want to give up more than one pick for him (unless the second one is a later round pick). I'm really high on Stafford, so I just can't justify trading a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd for Cutler.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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I would still trade for Cutler too, but I don't want to give up more than one pick for him (unless the second one is a later round pick). I'm really high on Stafford, so I just can't justify trading a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd for Cutler.
I cannot agree as much as I like Stafford, in this weak top end draft, he hasn't been able to break into the top 5 rankings so he's not the prospect people think he is and given the success rate of junior QB's, I think it is a no brainer that we send the #1 overall pick plus a few more if necessary for Cutler where there is absolutely no risk. Why would you want to take the risk that Stafford flops when you don't have to??? Cutler will play for another decade at a very high level, what more could you want????
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Lions WMD View Post
So who's gonna be our starting QB next year? Just sign another Free Agent? Sounds like a recipe for success to me.
If we draft Stafford, he won't/shouldn't be our starter next year. And if he is, he'll probably stink.

The QB situation for the 09 season should have zero bearing on drafting Stafford or not.

Fact is, we'd draft Stafford to be our QB for 2010 and beyond. We'd draft Jason Smith to be our Left Tackle for 2009 and beyond. Part of the equation when evaluating the 2 options should be the fact that we will get nothing from Stafford in 2009. Even if he's a great rookie QB (which is highly unlikely) he's still not going to play at a very high level, a rookie QB can only be so good, especially in our situation. He's just not a factor in 09. And regardless, we're not gonna be a factor in 09 so the cap space/money we pay for it is irrelevant to us.

That said I'm perfectly happy to draft Stafford, I'm just really tired of people asking "IF WE DONT DRAFT HIM WHOS OUR QB NEXT YEAR" or "IF WE DONT DRAFT HIM WE'VE ONLY GOT CULPEPPER AND STANTON IN 2009".

The Donte Culpepper Era is in full swing whether we draft Stafford or not.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JJKID View Post
Lets take a look At Lions QB's Drafted in the first two rounds since 1986. This doesn't mention the 11 million dollar Mistake i call Scott Mitchell. Also the "only reason you have a job is Barry Sanders" Rodney Pete.
2007-43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State
2002- 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1998-60 Charlie Batch QB Eastern Michigan
1990-7 Andre Ware QB Houston
1986-12 Chuck Long QB Iowa

The Lions have a long history of Horrible QB's. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen. When you have a front office who gets rid of talent and makes no effort to improve so much so that A legend Like Barry Sanders won't return you know you have an organization who doesn't want to when titles. We have coaches like Wayne fonts and front office Guys like Matt Millen.
So this your we will waste another draft pick on QB how has no supporting cast and he will take such a beating that his confidence will be shot and he will never reach his potential. He will be another Joey Harrington. Lets Pick up an offensive line and a defense that will keep the other team under 20 something points a game. Then we can draft a QB who will have a chance to succeed. To many great prospects at the QB position have been busts. But solid OT's or Defensive front positions are always a win.[/b] Do the Right thing!!!
Dating back 10 years, here are some of our great picks at OLine and the Defensive front 7. Top two rounds.

1999
Chris Claiborne LB
Aaron Gibson OT
2000
Stockar McDougal OT
Barrett Green LB
2001
Jeff Backus OT
Dominic Raiola C
Shaun Rogers DT
2002
Kalimba Edwards DE
2003
Boss Bailey LB
2004
Teddy Lehman LB
2005
Shaun Cody DE
2006
Ernie Sims LB
2007
Ikaika Alama-Francis DE
2008
Jordan Dizon LB

So in the last 10 years or so there has been 2 Offensive Line or Front 7 picks that worked out. There is no safe pick, especially for the Lions!
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
I would still trade for Cutler too, but I don't want to give up more than one pick for him (unless the second one is a later round pick). I'm really high on Stafford, so I just can't justify trading a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd for Cutler.
Yeah P-L, I got the Stafforditis now too. I am ready to see him be a Lion and get behind him being the next great NFL QB.

You think Cutler isn't a risk? He has issues with decision making just like Stafford does. He will need just as much money as Stafford will. Plus he's known to have personality issues, now more than ever.

I know that Cutler is still the better bet, since he's proven he can play in the NFL and Stafford hasn't. But what the hell.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I cannot agree as much as I like Stafford, in this weak top end draft, he hasn't been able to break into the top 5 rankings so he's not the prospect people think he is and given the success rate of junior QB's, I think it is a no brainer that we send the #1 overall pick plus a few more if necessary for Cutler where there is absolutely no risk. Why would you want to take the risk that Stafford flops when you don't have to??? Cutler will play for another decade at a very high level, what more could you want????
Well I do happen to think that Stafford is a top five prospect. I really don't care what Mayock thinks. As much as I like and respect him, he is not the end-all, be-all of the NFL draft. Scott has Stafford as his #1 prospect and Kiper has him as his #3 prospect. Obviously there are differing opinions on him. I happen to agree with Scott and Kiper more than I do Mayock in the case of Matthew Stafford.

Listen, I love Jay Cutler and would prefer him over Matthew Stafford due to the fact that he is a good, proven quarterback in the NFL. However, I don't think it's smart to give up multiple picks for him. This team is a mess. Last year we were one of, if not, the worst teams in NFL history. There are so many holes on this team it's ridiculous. I cannot think of one position on the entire team that could not be significantly upgraded. Only a few players on our entire team could start for any other franchise in the NFL. We have five of the first 82 selections in this year's draft. Trading away two or three of those picks for one player is not smart in my opinion. If we could get Jay Cutler for one first round pick than I'm all over it but any more than that is just too much.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Your argument won't fly too much on here. We're for the most part all pro Stafford. No offense but if you look at the colleges you listed for those qb's the Lions drafted their programs were far inferior to Stafford's Georgia program. Stafford's a different breed than the rest of those guys.
I'm trying to think of another QB drafted from Georgia and the only names I'm getting are David Greene and Quincy Carter.

I agree Stafford looks better but I don't think his school has the same pedigree for churning out winning arms like they do with RBs. At the very least you note he was running a pro style offense. That gives me hope.

I'm still on then fence over Stafford and far from sold. I "do" believe there is something to ruining a QB if you don't have your team ready. It takes a special QB to walk into a Lions-esque situation the first year or second year and not get ruined by it. Guys like Aikman and Manning were able to do it but they are all-world Super Bowl QBs. They don't come around often. I have seen far more guys who get put in these situations and fail. I'm not 100% sold on Stafford, but I like more of what I hear regarding workouts. At the same time I tender that with the thought that once he gets on the field its a whole new ball game.

For those who say "who else will be their QB next year" then I respond that the Front office has to figure that out. There is still some time, but not much for free agency. They don't have to start or pick their QB of their future tomorrow in my opinion. Just someone to hold the fort and do the best he can while they develop the core; the line of scrimmage. Once we can control that then "ideally" we should look for our QB of the future.

If the Lions take him, I will be hopeful that he is the QB of the future and hopeful that the scouts have it right and the coaches have a plan to set him up for success. But there is still a big part of me that's saying its more risk than they should be taking on at this point. Just about every expert has a few other top 5 guys rated as less risky picks and just about all of them could help out our team.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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You forgot DJ Shockley, Eric Zeier, Zeke Bratkowski. All former Georgia QBs in the NFL.

I think he was saying Georgia program under Richt>Houston for Ware and Oregon(althouhg they were good with Harrington/Tedford), which is true.

Plus pro style offense trumps all IMO. But in the end who cares about school(unless you really like those Baylor tackles of the past), I just care that Stafford seems to have the makings of a franchise QB.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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I agree Stafford looks better but I don't think his school has the same pedigree for churning out winning arms like they do with RBs. At the very least you note he was running a pro style offense. That gives me hope.
Georgia hasn't had a QB with the talent Stafford has in a long long time. Georgia's QB pedigree is significantly better than Vanderbilts, though ;)
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Georgia hasn't had a QB with the talent Stafford has in a long long time. Georgia's QB pedigree is significantly better than Vanderbilts, though ;)
Point taken.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Remind me again which of those former Georgia quarterbacks had half the amount of talent that Matthew Stafford does.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Remind me again which of those former Georgia quarterbacks had half the amount of talent that Matthew Stafford does.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...&ty pe=school

David Greene in 2002-2004, had Ben Watson and Reggie Brown. Not too shabby.

1997 QB(maybe Quincy Carter) had Robert Edwards who was 1st rounder and Hines Ward.

Herschell Walker played there.

Garrison Hearst was a good RB there.

George Foster went there haha.
Georgia is more known for defense. though Champ and Boss, Charles Grant, Thomas Davis.

In the end though Stafford has the tools to be a franchise QB, no matter what school he went too. I won't hold going to Baylor aganist Jason Smith or Wake Forest for Curry. Those schools just suck at life.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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I just see us being at least 3 years from accumulating enough talent to make any type of run in the playoffs. So at this point I would almost rather have Stafford. I think we need all of our picks, and if we are gona pay someone that much at #1, it might as well be Stafford.

If we get Cutler we will more than likely have to give him a large extension, and pay someone a lot at #1.

All that really makes me lean slightly towards just rolling the dice with Stafford.
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...&ty pe=school

David Greene in 2002-2004, had Ben Watson and Reggie Brown. Not too shabby.

1997 QB(maybe Quincy Carter) had Robert Edwards who was 1st rounder and Hines Ward.

Herschell Walker played there.

Garrison Hearst was a good RB there.

George Foster went there haha.
Georgia is more known for defense. though Champ and Boss, Charles Grant, Thomas Davis.

In the end though Stafford has the tools to be a franchise QB, no matter what school he went too. I won't hold going to Baylor aganist Jason Smith or Wake Forest for Curry. Those schools just suck at life.
Greene also had Fred Gibson, Randy McMichael, Leonard Pope and Musa Smith - all drafted players.

Quincy Carter came in after Robert Edwards and Hines Ward - he did have Champ Bailey who played WR as well as CB. He had a group of solid, but not stand out WR's. He also had Jermain Wiggins, an NFL TE.
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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If we draft Stafford, he won't/shouldn't be our starter next year. And if he is, he'll probably stink.

The QB situation for the 09 season should have zero bearing on drafting Stafford or not.

Fact is, we'd draft Stafford to be our QB for 2010 and beyond. We'd draft Jason Smith to be our Left Tackle for 2009 and beyond. Part of the equation when evaluating the 2 options should be the fact that we will get nothing from Stafford in 2009. Even if he's a great rookie QB (which is highly unlikely) he's still not going to play at a very high level, a rookie QB can only be so good, especially in our situation. He's just not a factor in 09. And regardless, we're not gonna be a factor in 09 so the cap space/money we pay for it is irrelevant to us.

That said I'm perfectly happy to draft Stafford, I'm just really tired of people asking "IF WE DONT DRAFT HIM WHOS OUR QB NEXT YEAR" or "IF WE DONT DRAFT HIM WE'VE ONLY GOT CULPEPPER AND STANTON IN 2009".

The Donte Culpepper Era is in full swing whether we draft Stafford or not.
Yeah, I was asking that as a response to him saying we should draft Jason Smith. I definitely want Stafford and I don't want him to play at all his Rookie year. I have no problem having a terrible year this year as long as we're set at the QB position for the next decade with Stafford.
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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I'd think about playing Stafford in the second half of the season if he is ready mentally to play. He must know the playbook very well and we can't have massive injuries around him on O(especially an unnamed WR who I don't want to jinx).

Hopefully we find a decent rookie LG so by the second half he's adjusted somewhat like Gosder did last year or Loper works out and that makes Backus play a little more consistent. If that is the case, and Maurice Morris/Kevin Smith are decent at pass protection too, I'd play Stafford to get him valuable experience in a no pressure situation at the end of the year and get him on the same page with the Johnsons in terms of timing. We can't totally baby him if he is ready. Depends on the schedule too I guess in the second half of the year. Playing like the Rams,Bengals,Browns,49ers,Seahawks etc wouldn't be too bad. If its at Baltimore,Pittsburgh,Minnesota away, Chicago away, forget it. The schedule will be important this year.

Haha, but lets cross that bridge once Stafford is actually selected.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Fix this said "QB curse" (stupid) by getting a proven player in Jay Cutler ... TODAY! offer draft picks, any Lion but Megatron on the block, 3 way with Cleveland's duo of QB's ... get on the phone and make it happen Mayhew!! Trade a pick or 2 for a 25 year old Pro Bowl caliber slinger ... forget the past, move on. Think JC to Johnson ... touchdown!
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Old 04-02-2009, 05:41 AM    (permalink
Prowler
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Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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lol. JC to CJesus, its a good thing kitna is gone.
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