The Official Poker Thread - Page 14

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simms2clayton

As I predicted, Harrah's f'd up the entire ME. The blind structure is an absolute joke.

I say the WSOP needs to build its own casino or something so it can make tables more accessible by players and enough room to accombany the thousands of players every year. Also, it could have seperate suites to accompany the high stakes cash games going on.

Harrah's is a joke though, they mess up the WSOP every year. Maybe the fields are too big but something has to be done.

Harrah's owns the rights to the WSOP so good luck with that.........

07-08-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckseason

I hear ya. It just comes down to treating others the way you want to be treated in return. Since you were just reciprocating the ill-will you had received from him, I have no problem with it. But it is a good way to put a target on your forehead. And hey, sometimes that can actually be a good thing at the poker table.

Totally agree. This one kid in my local cash game slow rolled me when he had quads and next time I get involved in a winning hand for me I am going to slow roll his ******* ass and see how he likes it.

I mean, I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but I am just gonna remind him not to be a punk at the table.

I know I talk a lot of trash when ppl make stupid plays against me, but slow rolling is totally different.

Acreboy · 07-08-2007, 09:10 PM

Man, according to this Ivey, Matusow, Raymer, Tim Phan, Men Ngyuen, Bloch and Phil Laak have busted.

http://www.cardplayer.com/tournaments/chip_counts/7278

reigle9 · 07-08-2007, 09:15 PM

If you guys never had an account at Absolute, Ultimate Bet, or Full Tilt, you can get a free $100. They give you $50 and put $50 in a bonus account. After you play a certain amount of hands, you can cash out. It's sounds too good to be true, but it's legit and there's no risk.
http://www.yourpokercash.com/?addby=beba1b

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

Man, according to this Ivey, Matusow, Raymer, Tim Phan, Men Ngyuen, Bloch and Phil Laak have busted.

http://www.cardplayer.com/tournaments/chip_counts/7278

Yeah but my boy Allen Cunningham is still there! :D

Acreboy · 07-08-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Yeah but my boy Allen Cunningham is still there! :D

Notice #5 in chips. Yes he's the real one...

http://www.cardplayer.com/tournaments/chip_counts/7278

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

Notice #5 in chips. Yes he's the real one...

http://www.cardplayer.com/tournaments/chip_counts/7278

Wow I just notice Andy Bloch has busted out as well. No surprise about Ivey though......

Acreboy · 07-08-2007, 09:26 PM

Also, I didn't see Daniel Negreanu's name. I wonder if he starts tomorrow?

Acreboy · 07-08-2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Wow I just notice Andy Bloch has busted out as well. No surprise about Ivey though......

What about Ivey? Before last year he finished in the top 25 3 out of the 4 last years. Thats pretty impressive.

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

Also, I didn't see Daniel Negreanu's name. I wonder if he starts tomorrow?

Not sure, the way this is structured has me a bit confused.

Acreboy · 07-08-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Wow I just notice Andy Bloch has busted out as well.

Man this was tough..

Quote:

Andy Bloch

Andy Bloch made a pre-flop raise of $2,800 and the player in seat no. 7 made the call. The flop came K

9

3

, and both players checked around. The turn brought the Jd and Bloch bet out $5,000. Seat no. 7 re-raised and moved all-in, Bloch called (Seat no. 7 had Bloch covered). Seat no. 7 turns over A

10

for the ace-high flush and Bloch showed K

K

for top set. The rover brought the 4

and Andy Bloch was eliminated halfway through Level 3.

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

What about Ivey? Before last year he finished in the top 25 3 out of the 4 last years. Thats pretty impressive.

I've read a few articles recently saying how Ivey really does have much interest in tournament poker considering he makes more in cash games.

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

Man this was tough..

Thats a tough way to to lose but Bloch can't be to upset since it wasn't really a bad beat.

Acreboy · 07-08-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Thats a tough way to to lose but Bloch can't be to upset since it wasn't really a bad beat.

Well, when I flop a set I don't expect to lose. I'd consider it a bad beat. That's just me.

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

Well, when I flop a set I don't expect to lose. I'd consider it a bad beat. That's just me.

He didn't bet the flop, the turn brought a 3rd diamond and he raised and the guy re-raised all in. Its a bad read by Bloch not a bad beat.

SuperKevin · 07-08-2007, 10:49 PM

Seriously Bloch should have bet high on the flop especially with the chance of diamonds out there

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperKevin

Seriously Bloch should have bet high on the flop especially with the chance of diamonds out there

Like I said, bad read not a bad beat. Thanks SuperKevin!

07-08-2007, 10:57 PM

I think Block made the correct move checking the flop. He was trying to trap his opponent, hoping he didn't have diamonds, and he planned on betting the turn no matter what came, even if it was a K.

He probably put his opponent on AQ, AJ, AT, TT, 99 (tough to put ur opponent on a set though when you flop one because that is so rare), 88 or 77.

As long as your opponent doesn't have diamonds you are good and checking the flop makes you look weak. You don't want to bet there and scare off a hand. If your opponent has QJ or JT then he has a gutshot and an 8% making it on the turn (16% total with 2 cards to come).

HOWEVER, if there was already a lot of money in the pot, then I think it might be correct to bet the flop, but since there as only 6k in the pot preflop (appx), then you have to check it. You only have a 17.5% of turning a flush assuming all 9 diamonds are still in the deck. Sometimes, it is correct to make a big bet making yourself actually looking weak (reverse psychology) so your opponent puts you on QQ, JJ, or AQ, and thus letting them making a big bet back at you and assuming you don't have a K.

Bloch made the right play, just a sick turn.

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simms2clayton

I think Block made the correct move checking the flop. He was trying to trap his opponent, hoping he didn't have diamonds, and he planned on betting the turn no matter what came, even if it was a K.

He probably put his opponent on AQ, AJ, AT, TT, 99 (tough to put ur opponent on a set though when you flop one because that is so rare), 88 or 77.

As long as your opponent doesn't have diamonds you are good and checking the flop makes you look weak. You don't want to bet there and scare off a hand.

HOWEVER, if there was already a lot of money in the pot, then I think it might be correct to bet the flop, but since there as only 6k in the pot preflop (appx), then you have to check it.

Bloch made the right play, just a sick turn.

Again, it was a BAD READ! When the guy re-raised all-in with 3 diamonds on the table you got to make the flush read. Bloch didn't and lost, plain and simple!

07-08-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Again, it was a BAD READ! When the guy re-raised all-in with 3 diamonds on the table you got to make the flush read. Bloch didn't and lost, plain and simple!

Lol, ya, its not like he didn't have outs. I think it is about a 20% of pairing the board on the river. 10 outs is quite a bit.

Also, there is a lot of hands Andy can beat here: QQ, 99, 33, JJ, Adjx (meaning he had the nut flush draw with jack of spades, clubs, or hearts). A pair of kings (or two pair Ks and Js) is less likely since it would be the the case king.

If his opponnet made a dumb move and just smooth called the pf raise with QQ and a K comes up on the flop then that is scary and so he checks behind Andy. Andy checked the flop making himself look weak, so now the player thinks his QQ is good if he has it.

There are a lot of hands Andy can beat here, he knows this. Even if he is beat he has a lot of outs.

In tournament poker, you just cant fold every time you are behind and have committed a large amount of his stack in the pot, which Andy did. He has to draw out to win the big pots. I am not saying you should count on draws at all, but when you are highly committed you have to. You dont win tournaments playing short stacked poker for a lot of it.

Andy probably knew he was up against a flush, but it made mathematical sense to put ur money in on the FH draw.

07-08-2007, 11:16 PM

I would love to make a post about something that really pisses me off when it comes to people judging other people's reads.

1. You have to put your opponent on a range of hands. No great player makes every read perfect. That is impossible since you can't see your opponent's cards, yet when I verbally say what I think my opponent has in a cash game and he doesn't have that hand players say I have bad reading skills....okay you ******* mind readers I don't see you saying every read because you don't have the balls and you dont have confidence.

2. Watch High Stakes Poker or high stakes cash games online at full tilt. The best players in the world make mistakes. No one is perfect. It is tough. Yet people love to criticize other people's mistakes instead of looking at the whole picture.

Acreboy · 07-08-2007, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simms2clayton

I would love to make a post about something that really pisses me off when it comes to people judging other people's reads.

1. You have to put your opponent on a range of hands. No great player makes every read perfect. That is impossible since you can't see your opponent's cards, yet when I verbally say what I think my opponent has in a cash game and he doesn't have that hand players say I have bad reading skills....okay you ******* mind readers I don't see you saying every read because you don't have the balls and you dont have confidence.

2. Watch High Stakes Poker or high stakes cash games online at full tilt. The best players in the world make mistakes. No one is perfect. It is tough. Yet people love to criticize other people's mistakes instead of looking at the whole picture.

There is someone..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D8sQs9RbQmo

BigDawg819 · 07-08-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simms2clayton

Lol, ya, its not like he didn't have outs. I think it is about a 20% of pairing the board on the river. 10 outs is quite a bit.

Also, there is a lot of hands Andy can beat here: QQ, 99, 33, JJ, Adjx (meaning he had the nut flush draw with jack of spades, clubs, or hearts). A pair of kings (or two pair Ks and Js) is less likely since it would be the the case king.

If his opponnet made a dumb move and just smooth called the pf raise with QQ and a K comes up on the flop then that is scary and so he checks behind Andy. Andy checked the flop making himself look weak, so now the player thinks his QQ is good if he has it.

There are a lot of hands Andy can beat here, he knows this. Even if he is beat he has a lot of outs.

In tournament poker, you just cant fold every time you are behind and have committed a large amount of his stack in the pot, which Andy did. He has to draw out to win the big pots. I am not saying you should count on draws at all, but when you are highly committed you have to. You dont win tournaments playing short stacked poker for a lot of it.

Andy probably knew he was up against a flush, but it made mathematical sense to put ur money in on the FH draw.

Ok stop describing a hypothetical hand and READ THE HAND SUMMARY! Bloch made a BAD READ!

07-08-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

Well, when I flop a set I don't expect to lose. I'd consider it a bad beat. That's just me.

To an extent this is true, but if you are up against a dangerous flop with 3 other people in the hand, there can be quite a few outs against you.

Scenario. I have 2d2s. 3 other people in the hand. Flop comes 2cTsJs. Now we have a very connected flop here with the jack-ten combo. There are quite a few hands that have outs for the straight on the turn in this scenario: 97, 98, Q9, Q8, QK, K9, AQ, and AK. Okay, that means any card 7 through A on the turn makes a straight possibility! (except for the jack and ten of course)

Also, factor in the spades for the flush draw. It would be very correct here to make a big bet on the flop to isolate/profit from draws.

NOW WHY IS THIS DIFFERENT IN THE ANDY BLOCH HAND:

1) Bloch was in a showdown against only 1 player. It is highly less likely that his opponent has a flush draw (just the odds of being up against two diamonds in your opponents hand and then 2 diamonds coming up on the flop is much less then being up against 3 more opponents seeing a flop!

2) I already gave the mathematics on the hand in my previous post. Remember, Andy is going to bet the turn no matter what comes, so only 17.5% chance of a flush and 9% for a gutshot straight. Also, I am not factoring in the ACTUAL amount of odds Andy has here. Maybe all 4 queens in the deck were fold which means no stright can be made on the turn. Now obviously, there is no way to put some opponents folds on hands since you have no basis for information, but nevertheless a few outs might have een folded making the actual odds of turning the draw less...but Bloch nor I can factor this in since you do not know...I only make this point because it is implied (not talking about implied odds...message me if you want to know about implied odds).

someone447 · 07-08-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simms2clayton

To an extent this is true, but if you are up against a dangerous flop with 3 other people in the hand, there can be quite a few outs against you.

Scenario. I have 2d2s. 3 other people in the hand. Flop comes 2cTsJs. Now we have a very connected flop here with the jack-ten combo. There are quite a few hands that have outs for the straight on the turn in this scenario: 97, 98, Q9, Q8, QK, K9, AQ, and AK. Okay, that means any card 7 through A on the turn makes a straight possibility! (except for the jack and ten of course)

Also, factor in the spades for the flush draw. It would be very correct here to make a big bet on the flop to isolate/profit from draws.

NOW WHY IS THIS DIFFERENT IN THE ANDY BLOCH HAND:

1) Bloch was in a showdown against only 1 player. It is highly less likely that his opponent has a flush draw (just the odds of being up against two diamonds in your opponents hand and then 2 diamonds coming up on the flop is much less then being up against 3 more opponents seeing a flop!

2) I already gave the mathematics on the hand in my previous post. Remember, Andy is going to bet the turn no matter what comes, so only 17.5% chance of a flush and 9% for a gutshot straight. Also, I am not factoring in the ACTUAL amount of odds Andy has here. Maybe all 4 queens in the deck were fold which means no stright can be made on the turn. Now obviously, there is no way to put some opponents folds on hands since you have no basis for information, but nevertheless a few outs might have een folded making the actual odds of turning the draw less...but Bloch nor I can factor this in since you do not know...I only make this point because it is implied (not talking about implied odds...message me if you want to know about implied odds).

Regardless of whether it was a bad read or not, it was a bad play. He should have bet the flop, you cannot give an opponant a free card on such a draw heavy board.

There is no reason to even mention what the other players could have folded. You count every card but what you have as still in the deck. Whether or not they have been dealt out, if you haven't seen them, they still have either 50, 47, or 46 cards left in that deck for you to count on, but judging by your past posts, you already know that, so what I don't understand is why you even brought up what others could have had.