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Old 04-11-2009, 12:33 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I'm not short changing him, I would just love for someone to explain to me what he has done to be considered a franchise QB other then those few great statistical seasons.
You did shortchange him. You said he had only one good season, so I'd like to know which of his 2005 and 2006 seasons you think wasn't a great season for an NFL QB. When he's been healthy and not in his first season starting, Palmer has been an elite QB, and he made the players around him better. Yes, he threw 20 INTs in 2007, but a bad defense has that effect on even the greatest of QBs, and looking at the rest of his numbers for that year, he still had a pretty great season. To me, a QB that is the unquestioned starter, is a team leader, makes the players around him better, and puts up great numbers consistently is a franchise QB. Palmer fits every single one of those criteria when healthy.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Personally, I think there is only three:

Manning
Brady
Brees

There are a lot of young guys out there who can be franchise QB's, but IMO no one touches these three for the amount of time they have been doing it combined with the fact all three have 5+ seasons left.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Personally, I think there is only three:

Manning
Brady
Brees

There are a lot of young guys out there who can be franchise QB's, but IMO no one touches these three for the amount of time they have been doing it combined with the fact all three have 5+ seasons left.
Peyton Manning is 33. In 5 years he'll be 38 (duh).

It wouldn't surprise me to see him play till he's 38 (that's actually a pretty standard retirement age for HOF QB's), but to think he'll be anything like he is now is very wishful thinking.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Peyton Manning is 33. In 5 years he'll be 38 (duh).

It wouldn't surprise me to see him play till he's 38 (that's actually a pretty standard retirement age for HOF QB's), but to think he'll be anything like he is now is very wishful thinking.
No its not. He doesn't throw on the move that much and hasn't for a long time.

Put a very good OL around him and I believe he could extend his career 10 years if he wanted to. Elway didn't have problems, and I don't think Manning will either OL pending.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Peyton Manning is 33. In 5 years he'll be 38 (duh).

It wouldn't surprise me to see him play till he's 38 (that's actually a pretty standard retirement age for HOF QB's), but to think he'll be anything like he is now is very wishful thinking.
In 5 seasons he'll be 37.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Peyton Manning is 33. In 5 years he'll be 38 (duh).

It wouldn't surprise me to see him play till he's 38 (that's actually a pretty standard retirement age for HOF QB's), but to think he'll be anything like he is now is very wishful thinking.
Look at what Brett Favre and Kurt Warner did though. Considering Manning's relatively injury-free career and the fact that he is a pocket passer, I don't think he'll necessarily regress very much going forward. He might lose some arm strength but his greatest asset has always been the mental part of the game anyway.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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In 5 seasons he'll be 37.
33 + 5 = 38.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
33 + 5 = 38.
Birthday in March, meaning he'll be 33 all of this season.

33 + 4 = 37.

It's the same reason that Jay Cutler is, for all intents and purposes, 26.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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No its not. He doesn't throw on the move that much and hasn't for a long time.

Put a very good OL around him and I believe he could extend his career 10 years if he wanted to. Elway didn't have problems, and I don't think Manning will either OL pending.
That's ******* insane. You gave Elway as an example. Elway retired at 38, and by the end of his career it's clear the Broncos won those two Superbowls as much due to their runninggame than anything else. Kurt Warner is 37. Brett Favre was awful last year at 39. Marino retired at 38 drastically declined. Ditto Joe Monatana.

He could have (this season included) 5 more good seasons, but like I said, it's very wishful thinking to consider that he'd have more. History and physics are not on your side.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Birthday in March, meaning he'll be 33 all of this season.

33 + 4 = 37.

It's the same reason that Jay Cutler is, for all intents and purposes, 26.
I didn't realize that this season was already over. I'm pretty sure he said 5+ seasons left. That would take him, after 5 seasons, to 38.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I didn't realize that this season was already over. I'm pretty sure he said 5+ seasons left. That would take him, after 5 seasons, to 38.
The 2009 season is not over, in fact, that's exactly why Manning will be 37 in 5 seasons. Unless you're saying 5 seasons after the 2009 season he'll be 38, in which case, you'd be right.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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The 2009 season is not over, in fact, that's exactly why Manning will be 37 in 5 seasons. Unless you're saying 5 seasons after the 2009 season he'll be 38, in which case, you'd be right.
Which is what 5+ would indicate, no?
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Which is what 5+ would indicate, no?
Well, you'd originally said 5, that might be where the confusion arose.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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That's ******* insane. You gave Elway as an example. Elway retired at 38, and by the end of his career it's clear the Broncos won those two Superbowls as much due to their runninggame than anything else. Kurt Warner is 37. Brett Favre was awful last year at 39. Marino retired at 38 drastically declined. Ditto Joe Monatana.

He could have (this season included) 5 more good seasons, but like I said, it's very wishful thinking to consider that he'd have more. History and physics are not on your side.
Favre had a bad season after switching teams. He had a career year the year before. I don't see why Manning can't replicate that success.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Didn't Sammy Baugh play into his 40's?

The game was a lot rougher then too.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Favre had a bad season after switching teams. He had a career year the year before. I don't see why Manning can't replicate that success.
Favre's last year with the Packers was an outlier. He was playing his brains off. The 2-3 years before that were all bad too. It's not like he just started to decline when he went to the Jets.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Favre's last year with the Packers was an outlier. He was playing his brains off. The 2-3 years before that were all bad too. It's not like he just started to decline when he went to the Jets.
Well Favre was excellent all the way up to the completion of the 2004 season. Easily one of the best QBs in the league. The next two years he still played OK considering how much his team was struggling. He just threw a lot of interceptions because he was playing from behind a lot and trying to take the team on his back. Then once his team improved, he again showed he is an elite quarterback.

I would hardly say Favre regressed very much. Yes, he was worse but he was still an elite, franchise quarterback until he was traded to the Jets.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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New England Patriots - Tom Brady
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco
Cincinnatti Bengals - Carson Palmer
Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger
Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning
Jacksonville Jaguars - David Garrard
Kansas City Chiefs - Matt Cassel
San Deigo Chargers - Phillip Rivers
New York Giants - Eli Manning
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo
Philedelphia Eagles - Donovan McNabb
Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler
Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers
Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees
Arizona Cardnails - Kurt Warner
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco
They surely hope, it's a little early to be ordaining him, especially with his play at times last year.

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Jacksonville Jaguars - David Garrard
No. Just no.

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Kansas City Chiefs - Matt Cassel
He had one decent season in a system he knew like the back of his hand by the time he got on the field. I'd say it's a little early here, too.

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Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo
Am I the only one that thinks about 20-25 if not more of the QBs in the NFL could have done what Romo has done with the talent around him?

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Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
He's well on his way, but I'd at least like to see another season of good play.

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Arizona Cardnails - Kurt Warner
If being a long-term solution is part of the criteria, then this doesn't work. Considering how much of his production went to Boldin and Fitz last year, I question it even in the short term.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Jacksonville Jaguars - David Garrard
You have to be ******* kidding me.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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The only reason I don't consider Warner a franchise QB is one reason. Look at the seasons he was successful. Last year and with the STL Rams, Warner always had the best (or one of the best) supporting casts. Fitz, Boldin, Breaston, Edge, Hightower last year. Faulk, Holt, Bruce, Az Hakim, Proehl, Elite LT then in Pace.

Then look at his years without that elite talent.

Warner is a very good QB, and a great passer. However, when I think franchise QB I think elite passing talents. Guys that put up 30 or more passing TD's a year-Over 4,000 yards that kind of stuff.

Brady, Manning, and Brees have either done it already or I feel like have a better chance at doing much more than all other QB's.

Warner is close, now that I think of it McNabb is to but I think they just miss. After that everyone is a work in progress to see if they can get there.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Ben I consider the premier Game Manager. I think he is a hell of a QB, but not a franchise QB.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
You have to be ******* kidding me.
I think Garrard is a very underrated QB. I would not consider him a franchise QB, but if he actually had 2 good WR's to throw at for more than one season, maybe he could get to that level. This guy has had some huge busts for WR.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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New England Patriots - Tom Brady - Hurt
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco - didn't put up good enough numbers
Cincinnatti Bengals - Carson Palmer - hurt
Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger - game manager
Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning - too old
Jacksonville Jaguars - David Garrard - not productive enough
Kansas City Chiefs - Matt Cassel - one year wonder
San Deigo Chargers - Phillip Rivers - too douchy
New York Giants - Eli Manning - Nothing without Plaxico Burress
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo - Choke artist
Philedelphia Eagles - Donovan McNabb - He's an eagles QB
Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler - Can't even get to the playoffs.
Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers - Not Brett Favre.
Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan - Hasn't won the big game.
New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees - Too short
Arizona Cardnails - Kurt Warner - Product of his WR's.

There are no franchise QB's!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised to see all 29 teams that have a first round draft pick draft a QB in the first round. You can't pass on that potential franchise QB. :D

This is a joke. It is not meant to be taken seriously.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crickett View Post
New England Patriots - Tom Brady - Hurt
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco - didn't put up good enough numbers
Cincinnatti Bengals - Carson Palmer - hurt
Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger - game manager
Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning - too old
Jacksonville Jaguars - David Garrard - not productive enough
Kansas City Chiefs - Matt Cassel - one year wonder
San Deigo Chargers - Phillip Rivers - too douchy
New York Giants - Eli Manning - Nothing without Plaxico Burress
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo - Choke artist
Philedelphia Eagles - Donovan McNabb - He's an eagles QB
Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler - Can't even get to the playoffs.
Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers - Not Brett Favre.
Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan - Hasn't won the big game.
New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees - Too short
Arizona Cardnails - Kurt Warner - Product of his WR's.

There are no franchise QB's!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised to see all 29 teams that have a first round draft pick draft a QB in the first round. You can't pass on that potential franchise QB. :D

This is a joke. It is not meant to be taken seriously.
how in da hell can you say Drew Brees isnt a franchise QB????
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