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Old 04-12-2009, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by IndyColtScout View Post
I'm going to be pissed if Mangini trades Braylon to Hoodie.

Wouldn't be suprised in the least. Moss, Braylon, and Welker for Brady would be unfair.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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I'm guessing Quinn to the Broncos and Edwards to the Giants.
I'm 100% sure Quinn will not go to DEN. Why give up a 1st round pick for a less accomplished QB than Orton (who now has potential all decade LT in Clady and #15/#19/Caldwell/Stokley)

Orton and DEN's QB situation is fine.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CroomDawgs View Post
Wouldn't be suprised in the least. Moss, Braylon, and Welker for Brady would be unfair.
Worst part is NE could trade their 1st round pick, and they still got enough picks left over for a great draft.

I really do think Braylon to NE would be just deadly for the rest of the league especially with a healthy Maroney coming back and the addition of Fred Taylor. Seriously, Brady having those types of weapons should be illegal. Braylon could help them so much that I might have to predict them going 19-0.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm 100% sure Quinn will not go to DEN. Why give up a 1st round pick for a less accomplished QB than Orton (who now has potential all decade LT in Clady and #15/#19/Caldwell/Stokley)

Orton and DEN's QB situation is fine.
LMAO

I can't believe people actually believe this.

Orton is not the future and has very little potential.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL View Post
LMAO

I can't believe people actually believe this.

Orton is not the future and has very little potential.
I don't care, think what you want thats fine.

But there is no way that trading a 1st for Quinn improved DEN's QB situation at all.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL View Post
LMAO

I can't believe people actually believe this.

Orton is not the future and has very little potential.
With Denver's oline and Weapons he should be good enough if they can rebuild that D. My gut is telling me Braylon is going to be a giant and Quinn a Jet or a Lion.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL View Post
LMAO

I can't believe people actually believe this.

Orton is not the future and has very little potential.
You overrate potential.

Ravens won a SB with Trent Dilfer. What kind of potential is that?

An NFL team is more than one position. If you surround a guy with weapons, his game will improve.

I'm not saying Orton is all-pro. I'm saying he will provide them with a starting QB this year. Orton only has one year left on his deal. If he sucks, DEN lets him walk and can choose a QB with one of their TWO 1st rounder next season.

Why can't you see the logic?
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by IndyColtScout View Post
I don't care, think what you want thats fine.

But there is no way that trading a 1st for Quinn improved DEN's QB situation at all.
I have a hard time believing Quinn is not better than Orton, so, yeah it would be an improvement.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by IndyColtScout View Post
You overrate potential.

Ravens won a SB with Trent Dilfer. What kind of potential is that?

An NFL team is more than one position. If you surround a guy with weapons, his game will improve.

I'm not saying Orton is all-pro. I'm saying he will provide them with a starting QB this year. Orton only has one year left on his deal. If he sucks, DEN lets him walk and can choose a QB with one of their TWO 1st rounder next season.

Why can't you see the logic?
Because their aren't many good QB's next year either. Bradford is the only one that looks like a first round guy, but beyond him there's not much.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Because their aren't many good QB's next year either. Bradford is the only one that looks like a first round guy, but beyond him there's not much.
There is also the chance of a trade for a QB next season, signing a QB (DEN has one of the highest amount of cap room), Orton possibly succeeds, McDaniels takes a low round QB this year for next year.... So many other more likely scenarios than DEN trading a 1st for a less accomplished QB than Orton. That scenario is so bad, and I'm telling you DEN will not go that route.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Because their aren't many good QB's next year either. Bradford is the only one that looks like a first round guy, but beyond him there's not much.
Haven't watch Snead and Ole Miss operate much have you?
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by IndyColtScout View Post
You overrate potential.

Ravens won a SB with Trent Dilfer. What kind of potential is that?

An NFL team is more than one position. If you surround a guy with weapons, his game will improve.

I'm not saying Orton is all-pro. I'm saying he will provide them with a starting QB this year. Orton only has one year left on his deal. If he sucks, DEN lets him walk and can choose a QB with one of their TWO 1st rounder next season.

Why can't you see the logic?
Okay, let me know when Denver has one of the best defenses in the NFL.



I've watched every single throw Orton has ever made in the NFL. He's a very average to below average NFL QB even with those weapons.

If Denver doesn't get Bradford next year then what? Snead is the second best QB in that class it looks like and I doubt people are sold on him as a first rounder. It doesn't look like a promising QB group and they might not be able to trade up for Bradford and could screw themselves. Their QB situation is far from fine. Could they manage with Orton for a year? Sure. The Bears have shuffled junk QBs around for years. The Bears had Grossman/Griese/Orton a few years ago. 3 back up QBs doesn't mean the situation is fine.

Denver is going to be awful next year. Mostly because of their defense, but Orton will be a strong reason as well.

I love how all of a sudden Orton has potential to do good things. Not really. He cannot throw the ball down the field and just isn't a good player. Will his numbers look a little better, because of Denver's offense? Probably, but he's still the same below average QB.

I will not be surprised to see Simms starting for Denver by week 4. Hell, he may win that job in camp.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Okay, let me know when Denver has one of the best defenses in the NFL.



I've watched every single throw Orton has ever made in the NFL. He's a very average to below average NFL QB even with those weapons.

If Denver doesn't get Bradford next year then what? Snead is the second best QB in that class it looks like and I doubt people are sold on him as a first rounder. It doesn't look like a promising QB group and they might not be able to trade up for Bradford and could screw themselves. Their QB situation is far from fine. Could they manage with Orton for a year? Sure. The Bears have shuffled junk QBs around for years. The Bears had Grossman/Griese/Orton a few years ago. 3 back up QBs doesn't mean the situation is fine.

Denver is going to be awful next year. Mostly because of their defense, but Orton will be a strong reason as well.

I love how all of a sudden Orton has potential to do good things. Not really. He cannot throw the ball down the field and just isn't a good player. Will his numbers look a little better, because of Denver's offense? Probably, but he's still the same below average QB.

I will not be surprised to see Simms starting for Denver by week 4. Hell, he may win that job in camp.
My point about BAL wasn't defense. Over your head.

NFL is about more than the QB. It's about team.

Orton was never a great QB. No one thinks he is great. No one is saying he is great.

Just like Dilfer, Orton is average. Guess what? Average QB's with good O-Line's and solid weapons around them can put up good numbers.

Need some examples? Kurt Warner in his first season with the STL Rams. Do I really need to say more? No one, absolutely no one would have even called Warner an average QB. NO ONE!

Another prime time example: Rich Gannon with the Oakland Raiders. Dude was terrible until someone put a good supporting casts and a smart HC around him.

Another example: Tommy freakin Maddox. Complete loser and huge bust. He goes to PIT for a few seasons, has a good supporting cast and HC, and actually halfway redeems his career at the end (until Rashen Mathis brought him back down to earth).

Trent Green and the KC Chiefs w/ Holmes, Kennison, Gonzo, etc... Green wasn't ever really considered a great one.

Again, think what you want about the whole situation. We are allowed to disagree. I just think you underestimate Orton's ability when he has the types of weapons DEN has along the OL and at WR.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Haven't watch Snead and Ole Miss operate much have you?
I've seen them play, but i still have my doubts about him going in the first. He would be my #2 QB though.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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I hope Edwards is coming to the Giants. For the right price of course.


As for Quinn, I think its dumb to let go of him. He's not getting paid all that much, and Derek Andersen is far from a guarantee at qb, so why not let Quinn show what he's made of?

As for possible destinations, I think the Vikings would make sense.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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My point about BAL wasn't defense. Over your head.

NFL is about more than the QB. It's about team.

Orton was never a great QB. No one thinks he is great. No one is saying he is great.

Just like Dilfer, Orton is average. Guess what? Average QB's with good O-Line's and solid weapons around them can put up good numbers.

Need some examples? Kurt Warner in his first season with the STL Rams. Do I really need to say more? No one, absolutely no one would have even called Warner an average QB. NO ONE!

Another prime time example: Rich Gannon with the Oakland Raiders. Dude was terrible until someone put a good supporting casts and a smart HC around him.

Another example: Tommy freakin Maddox. Complete loser and huge bust. He goes to PIT for a few seasons, has a good supporting cast and HC, and actually halfway redeems his career at the end (until Rashen Mathis brought him back down to earth).

Again, think what you want about the whole situation. We are allowed to disagree. I just think you underestimate Orton's ability when he has the types of weapons DEN has along the OL and at WR.
1. Warner was just unproven.
2. We do not have anything resembling the overall team the Greatest Show on Turf had. I'm pretty sure they were the 4th overall defense that year too.

Tommy Maddox, again had a good defense and running game. Two things lacking in Denver.

Rich Gannon was a big time veteran guy. They might have struck gold there, but I'm fairly confident in saying Orton is not gold. We know what he can do. And leading this Denver team to 5 or more wins ain't one of them.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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I could see the Bucs being interested in Quinn...

Young solid O-line,a few good RBs, Bryant and Winslow are nice targets and Jeff Jagodzinski calling the plays. I think Quinn would be a real nice fit, it could be an exciting young offense.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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I can sort of see trading Edwards but not Quinn. I think that'd be a big mistake on their part. You have your franchise LT, keep your franchise QB in the fold and draft offensive playmakers around him. Crabtree could be there at 5 and by trading Edwards you'll get a few more picks to pick up some other quality offensive guys.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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1. Warner was just unproven.
2. We do not have anything resembling the overall team the Greatest Show on Turf had. I'm pretty sure they were the 4th overall defense that year too.

Tommy Maddox, again had a good defense and running game. Two things lacking in Denver.

Rich Gannon was a big time veteran guy. They might have struck gold there, but I'm fairly confident in saying Orton is not gold. We know what he can do. And leading this Denver team to 5 or more wins ain't one of them.
But that doesn't all fall on Orton.

I really do believe that DEN will have a very productive offense. Again, the teams failure next year will probably fall on the D.

The point of me bringing all these QB's up though is this: If you surround a guy like Orton with Clady, Marshall, Royal, some capable RB's, a good offensive coach then offensively they will be fine. If you want him to lead you to the SB, you have to build the D and find a way to sustain the offensive success. Orton can get you there, but he has to have a great surrounding casts. Don't get too down on yourself Bronco's fan because I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel even with a guy like Orton.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Please Quinn to the Bucs
Please Quinn to the Bucs
Please Quinn to the Bucs

Damn leftwich signing means this is unlikely
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Because their aren't many good QB's next year either. Bradford is the only one that looks like a first round guy, but beyond him there's not much.
I worry about Bradford's ability to transition to a Pro Offense. I don't like a QB that has relied on coaches to call his audibles.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Was he? According to whom? Scott?

He's been in the league for two years and has yet to do anything. I am by no means saying the kid is a bust. But it's safe to say the luster has come off at least a bit.
He's been developing for two years. Where are you going to find a QB THAT developed with THOSE tools and THAT college career with the 22nd pick in this or any other draft?
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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He's been developing for two years. Where are you going to find a QB THAT developed with THOSE tools and THAT college career with the 22nd pick in this or any other draft?
Brady Quinn has tools?
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Brady Quinn has tools?
Well, he is a tool, so that counts.
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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If the Browns trade Brady Quinn it will be the worst move they could make.
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