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Old 11-29-2008, 07:54 PM    (permalink
chapo123
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
No Thanks. I dont want another DC to be our next HC. I want someone who's already been a HC and knows what he's doing.



WTF??? Are you kidding me??? I would keep Smith (and Hill) to compete for the starting QB job with it being Hill's to lose. Sullivan should be on the list instead of Smith. At least Smth is still very young and still has an upside. I agree with Jennings, Martin, Franklin, Harris and Roman. I would keep Battle and release Bruce instead. Sims should be retained for depth. Sopoaga should be the starting DT and we just signed him to an extension. Spikes is 50/50. On one hand, he's done better than expected but on the other who knows how he'll play next year. Brooks was already released which was a stupid move in my opinion. I would keep Spencer as the nickelback with Keith Lewis being our best special teams player and Michael Lewis has been for us what Parrish was when he replaced Schulters in 2002. No way I let either Lewis leave.



No thanks to T.J. He'll be 32 when the 2009 season has already started and isnt worth the money that he's going to want to get. Forget Gross as he's most likely going to stay in CAR and overpaying a RT isnt a smart move. I say stay with Snyder at RT. Sharper??? No thanks. Basically, you want to overpay two old players to be starters for us??? You've got to be kidding me because this is how you get into cap hell. By overpaying all these old players that wont play out their entire contract. Want to overpay someone? Overpay Suggs who's only 26 years old, in his prime and fills arguably, our biggest need. Overpay Dansby who's only 27 years old, in his prime and would complete our LB core for what should be the 4-3 next season. Garcia is the only one I agree with but I wouldnt pay him more than $1m per season and thats being generous.



Sorry, but I rather overpay Suggs and/or Dansby to play OLB depending on what we run and draft CB Malcolm Jenkins and if that means trading up to get him, so be it. M. Lewis is set at SS for the next three years and isnt going anywhere so forget it. FS should be Reggie Smth which is what he was drafted to be. Safeties are set. My starting OL would already be set and I would draft a backup OG and OT on the second day. And why would I draft a CB in round four to compete with others who at best are nickelbacks?

no, actually i'm not kidding u. by the time i retire from my job ( i'm only 25) smith will be selling auto insurance due to his " great playing ability" . the dude blows more than jenna did in the early part of the nineties. get over yourself and your fasanation that this clown is going to emerge as the the next john brodie. i'm sick of the whole " he gone thru 4 oc's and this and that bs. get that f'n douchebag out of here.

the reason i say get rid of a good portion of the d is...why pay guys that give up 300 plus yards a game? i have seen high school sophmores who give better effort than these bums. spencer is coming off a acl and harris will or is 35 yrs old. the best draft pick sf had this season up to date has been a 6th rd pick. thats right...a 6th.

older players being overpaid is your big argument here? ok. i can agree it sounds like a load. but why pay more or continue to run on hopes and dreams if what is currently there driving the team to a 2-9 season? are u going to sit here and tell me this is the best sf has to offer? really?

why not shwartz? who else are the debartolos going to convince to come in and take over a franchise who blew a # 1 pick? or have 1k rushing back not get more than 10 touches per game? this isn't the luxury job it was back in the 80's. i'm sorry. i'll say it how it really is. call steven a smith on me if u want.
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:35 AM    (permalink
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the reason i say get rid of a good portion of the d is...why pay guys that give up 300 plus yards a game?
Who do you plan to replace them with? Some of the guys you want to release have roles to play as mentors to their successors.

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the best draft pick sf had this season up to date has been a 6th rd pick. thats right...a 6th.
It is way too early to evaluate this class. We took a number of players that we're sitting to develop.

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or have 1k rushing back not get more than 10 touches per game?
If you're referring to how Gore's being used this season, he's average over 20 touches.
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Old 11-30-2008, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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the best draft pick sf had this season up to date has been a 6th rd pick. thats right...a 6th.
Patrick Willis was actually a first round pick believe it or not.

Dan getting Dansby and Suggs will do nothing. Dansby is already being underutilized playing 3-4 ILB when he is a way better 4-3 SAM. Suggs is not the answer to the pass rush problems signing these two will just put us in cap hell.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 11-30-2008, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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i think suggs would be a great signing personally, i agree with dan on that and i have for a long time

also, this must only be me, but i actually like martz as the OC. he isn't calling for 35 step drops anymore and we are producing on offense, better than we have in the past, especially with leading the league in plays of 20+ yards. i think we are set at receiver for the next couple of years, we should get another tackle although i am a proponent of signing a RT instead of drafting one, we need to get reggie smith some playing time because i am going to be pissed if he doesn't pan out as a pick, we need to draft Safeties or sign one and draft one, but our safety play is absolutely terrible.

options for the offseason-

sign:
RT (could either be Jordan Gross/Marc Colombo, i like Gross more though)
OLB (Terrell Suggs)
ILB (if we Spikes doesn't stay, Bart Scott although i don't see the Ravens letting him go)
CB (Nnamdi Asomugha/Dunta Robinson, depending on whether Reggie Smith stays at corner or if we draft another CB)

draft:
1st round:
Malcolm Jenkins-my favorite corner in the nation, lockdown, and would be good if we move Reggie Smith to Safety or if we don't sign one
Michael Oher/Eugene Monroe/Andre Smith-would give us two great young tackles, not the option i wish for however
Michael Crabtree/Jeremy Maclin-would give our offense playmakers however i think we have good young receiver yet i wouldn't complain if we drafted either of these guys
Brian Orakpo-great pick if we don't sign Suggs, would add a passrusher we haven't had in years
William Moore/Taylor Mays-my favorite Safeties in the nation, could replace either of our crappy starters, but would most likely only be the pick if we won the next couple of games and got a later pick

2nd round:
Clint Sintim/Brian Cushing/George Selvie:first two aregreat OLBs in the 3-4 and have previous experience playing in it, Selvie definitely has the ability to switch to OLB and be a punishing rusher
Patrick Chung/Michael Hamlin:both great safeties that, once again, could replace either of our crappy starters
Fili Moala/Terrence Taylor/Ricky Jean Francois/BJ Raji:are all big men that could potentially solve our perennial problem of not having a dominant NT

3rd round:
Clay Matthews/Anthony Felder: OLBs that could play full-time opposite of Lawson
Aaron Kelly/Brian Robiskie/Quan Cosby: all solid receivers with no huge gaps in their game, would add to our young core


a QB will probably be taken anywhere but there are so many that i left them out
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by chapo123
no, actually i'm not kidding u. by the time i retire from my job ( i'm only 25) smith will be selling auto insurance due to his " great playing ability" . the dude blows more than jenna did in the early part of the nineties. get over yourself and your fasanation that this clown is going to emerge as the the next john brodie. i'm sick of the whole " he gone thru 4 oc's and this and that bs. get that f'n douchebag out of here.

the reason i say get rid of a good portion of the d is...why pay guys that give up 300 plus yards a game? i have seen high school sophmores who give better effort than these bums. spencer is coming off a acl and harris will or is 35 yrs old. the best draft pick sf had this season up to date has been a 6th rd pick. thats right...a 6th.

older players being overpaid is your big argument here? ok. i can agree it sounds like a load. but why pay more or continue to run on hopes and dreams if what is currently there driving the team to a 2-9 season? are u going to sit here and tell me this is the best sf has to offer? really?

why not shwartz? who else are the debartolos going to convince to come in and take over a franchise who blew a # 1 pick? or have 1k rushing back not get more than 10 touches per game? this isn't the luxury job it was back in the 80's. i'm sorry. i'll say it how it really is. call steven a smith on me if u want.
Everyone here knows that im not an Alex Smith fan and never wanted him back in 2005 but im not stupid. A lot of money, time and effort has been invested in him and at only 25 years old, no way would I release him outright. Shaun Hill would be the only QB on the roster and im sorry, I wouldnt waste a draft pick on another QB when he's only going to take years to develop as well as a lot of money. Smith played horrible as a rookie but played well in 2006 and showed huge improvement. He played back in 2007 but that had to do more with Nolan screwing up his arm/shoulder than it did the OC.

Defensively, the reason why we're bad is because is offense is worse. There's no consistency offensively which in turn, kills our defense because they're on the field the majority of the time. Add in the fact that we dont have a pure NT to run the 3-4, no pass rush which leaves our secondary out to dry and a DC who I dont think is any good and that all adds up to why our defense is horrible.

Here's the number one FA rule - dont OVERPAY any player 30 or older and the reason why is simple - you're paying a player who's already past his prime and will eventually wear down to where he's not worth even bringing in for a tryout. Suggs and Dansby are in their prime and will provide what we dont have - an instant pass rush. Add in a new DC (im hoping for Rob Ryan) who knows how to use his best DE and LB core, and we should have a much better defense.

Schwartz??? We're going to hire another cheap DC to become our next HC and for what reason? To save money? Please. We need an ex-HC who knows what he's done and hopefully, has experience with developing QB's. Another reason is that unlike another coordinator, an ex-HC will have experience with being the HC and will relate to the players far better than any coordinator. The only thing is hiring the right ex-HC to be our next head coach.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BandwagonPunditry View Post
Who do you plan to replace them with? Some of the guys you want to release have roles to play as mentors to their successors.



It is way too early to evaluate this class. We took a number of players that we're sitting to develop.



If you're referring to how Gore's being used this season, he's average over 20 touches.
i would hope sf replaces those guys with solid draft picks and decent fa signing.
why wait for developement? you are talking like sf is in the lead in the division.
since singletary took over his production has gotten better but you know as well as i do he can do more.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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Patrick Willis was actually a first round pick believe it or not.

Dan getting Dansby and Suggs will do nothing. Dansby is already being underutilized playing 3-4 ILB when he is a way better 4-3 SAM. Suggs is not the answer to the pass rush problems signing these two will just put us in cap hell.
is willis a rookie this year? no.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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we should try and get Jimmy Johnson. He and his hair would be awesome in the bay area
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
Everyone here knows that im not an Alex Smith fan and never wanted him back in 2005 but im not stupid. A lot of money, time and effort has been invested in him and at only 25 years old, no way would I release him outright. Shaun Hill would be the only QB on the roster and im sorry, I wouldnt waste a draft pick on another QB when he's only going to take years to develop as well as a lot of money. Smith played horrible as a rookie but played well in 2006 and showed huge improvement. He played back in 2007 but that had to do more with Nolan screwing up his arm/shoulder than it did the OC.

Defensively, the reason why we're bad is because is offense is worse. There's no consistency offensively which in turn, kills our defense because they're on the field the majority of the time. Add in the fact that we dont have a pure NT to run the 3-4, no pass rush which leaves our secondary out to dry and a DC who I dont think is any good and that all adds up to why our defense is horrible.

Here's the number one FA rule - dont OVERPAY any player 30 or older and the reason why is simple - you're paying a player who's already past his prime and will eventually wear down to where he's not worth even bringing in for a tryout. Suggs and Dansby are in their prime and will provide what we dont have - an instant pass rush. Add in a new DC (im hoping for Rob Ryan) who knows how to use his best DE and LB core, and we should have a much better defense.

Schwartz??? We're going to hire another cheap DC to become our next HC and for what reason? To save money? Please. We need an ex-HC who knows what he's done and hopefully, has experience with developing QB's. Another reason is that unlike another coordinator, an ex-HC will have experience with being the HC and will relate to the players far better than any coordinator. The only thing is hiring the right ex-HC to be our next head coach.
i'm so done with smith i could care less if he became the next big thing.
your right lets overpay a corner like clements who has had major success so far.
who is sf going to convince to come out here?
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to land one of the top OTs in FA to avoid having to draft one early. Draft wise, I think we'll be out of range for Andre Smith and Michael Oher anyway. Eugene Monroe might be there though in case we don't address OT in FA. We'll probably miss on Jenkins, Crabtree and Stafford though. Hopefully Orakpo will be there when we pick. I'd be very happy with:

1. DE/OLB Orakpo
2. NT BJ Raji (we better get a good NT this offseason. I'm tired of waiting. Also, if Terrence Cody comes out, we gotta get him no matter what it takes)
3. OLB Clay Matthews - Rainbeau nailed this pick
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Old 12-01-2008, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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is willis a rookie this year? no.
Damn our team for taking developemental players. Yeah I am a big fan of Clay Matthews would love to see him in the red and gold.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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First Round
1. Defensive Backfield
If Jenkins is there, we definitely should take a look at him. He's the kind of CB that gets gameplanned around and could start for us for years. He's a guy I could see coming in and starting right away. I know some of you are high on Reggie Smith starting opposite Clements, but nabbing Jenkins could be a blessing in disguise for you guys, Smith could be used at FS or Nickel Back. William Moore should get a look as he is the top draft eligible safety on the board and, IMO, the best all around safety coming out this year.

2. Offensive Line
Namely Offensive Tackle but it wouldn't hurt to bulk up the interior of the line as well. We're a couple more wins away from slipping out of range to grab Andre Smith, Michael Oher, or Eugene Monroe. Of the three, I would take Andre Smith. He reminds alot of San Diego's Marcus McNeil with old school type of play. He's the mauler we've been waiting to get since Derrick Deese retired. But this years Tackle class is pretty deep and talented so this issue could get addressed in later rounds, if we so happen to slip out of range.

3. Pass Rusher
Our fast flow 3-4 looks nothing like a fast flow 3-4 simply because the "pass rushers" aren't getting to the QB. I'm looking to guys like Orakpo, Johnson, Hardy, Selvie etc. to provide the spark this defense needs.
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to land one of the top OTs in FA to avoid having to draft one early. Draft wise, I think we'll be out of range for Andre Smith and Michael Oher anyway. Eugene Monroe might be there though in case we don't address OT in FA. We'll probably miss on Jenkins, Crabtree and Stafford though. Hopefully Orakpo will be there when we pick. I'd be very happy with:

1. DE/OLB Orakpo
2. NT BJ Raji (we better get a good NT this offseason. I'm tired of waiting. Also, if Terrence Cody comes out, we gotta get him no matter what it takes)
3. OLB Clay Matthews - Rainbeau nailed this pick
ya, and matthews could possibly even be gotten in the 4th

i completely agree with you on the cody statement, we need to get an NT this offseason and if he is in the draft, we must get him
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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First Round
1. Defensive Backfield
If Jenkins is there, we definitely should take a look at him. He's the kind of CB that gets gameplanned around and could start for us for years. He's a guy I could see coming in and starting right away. I know some of you are high on Reggie Smith starting opposite Clements, but nabbing Jenkins could be a blessing in disguise for you guys, Smith could be used at FS or Nickel Back. William Moore should get a look as he is the top draft eligible safety on the board and, IMO, the best all around safety coming out this year.

2. Offensive Line
Namely Offensive Tackle but it wouldn't hurt to bulk up the interior of the line as well. We're a couple more wins away from slipping out of range to grab Andre Smith, Michael Oher, or Eugene Monroe. Of the three, I would take Andre Smith. He reminds alot of San Diego's Marcus McNeil with old school type of play. He's the mauler we've been waiting to get since Derrick Deese retired. But this years Tackle class is pretty deep and talented so this issue could get addressed in later rounds, if we so happen to slip out of range.

3. Pass Rusher
Our fast flow 3-4 looks nothing like a fast flow 3-4 simply because the "pass rushers" aren't getting to the QB. I'm looking to guys like Orakpo, Johnson, Hardy, Selvie etc. to provide the spark this defense needs.
i agree with your statement on William Moore, if we win a couple more games i think he warrants a long look as Safety is easily one of our teams biggest needs. plus, it will be an easier choice as most of our top guys would probably be gone by that point anyways. i am not too high on johnson or selvie though, much higher on a guy like orakpo that i can easily see becoming our version of merriman/ware, a monster DE strength wise with crazy speed. and Oline wise, i think that pieces are there and that they just need time to gel, with the exception of adam snyder at RT, however i think a better option could be found in FA, or not the 1st round as there are bigger needs to be addressed
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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If we are picking in the 10-15 range then I think Moore should be the pick it also depends on what OT's are available.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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At least we can be happy (?) about how consistent the areas we need help at have been this year. We never have to rethink who the 49ers should draft.
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
At least we can be happy (?) about how consistent the areas we need help at have been this year. We never have to rethink who the 49ers should draft.
We never have to think that hard thats for sure.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 12-02-2008, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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i would hope sf replaces those guys with solid draft picks and decent fa signing.
Which is what they're trying to do...still doesn't mean we can cut our starters with no replacements. Mentoring our draft picks will be important too.

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why wait for developement?
Because instant success isn't possible? And because talented draft picks sometimes need time to adjust?

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you are talking like sf is in the lead in the division.
What do you mean?

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since singletary took over his production has gotten better but you know as well as i do he can do more.
He's only had a couple of solid games since Singletary took over...
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I want the 49ers draft to look something like this

1st - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
2nd - Phil Loadholt, RT, Oklahoma or Fenuki Tupou, RT, Oregon
3rd - Rashad Johnson, FS, Alabama
4th - Jordan Shipley, WR, Texas
5th - Joe Burnett, CB/KR/PR, Central Florida
6th - Roland Martin, OG, Michigan State
7th - Corey Lewis, Northern Iowa

To go along with the signing of Albert Haynesworth, and I don't care how much it costs, and the resigning of Takeo Spikes. I we should play a 4-3 and a front seven looking like this,

Justin Smith - Kentwan Balmer - Albert Haynesworth - Brian Orakpo
Manny Lawson - Patrick Willis - Takeo Spikes

would be very good, imo. The secondary will be good enough with Clements and Reggie Smith/Tarell Brown at corner, Michael Lewis at SS, and Rashad Johnson at FS. Aubrayo Franklin, Ronald Fields, Roderick Green, Banta-Cain, Roman, and Donald Strickland should be gone.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Look dont get me wrong I enjoy us winning after all this gloom but every time we win meaningless games like Buffalo we slide down the draft order and further away from the guys that would actually make a difference to us. I would rather bomb the season and get a top 5 pick than have a mediocre one were we finish 6 - 10 and have a pick in the teens. I'm already afraid Jenkins has slipped from our grasp already and probably Orakpo too.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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I hope we get a franchise QB in this draft. Not getting one just delays any real chance of contention for another year. I like Hill but he isn't getting us anywhere. He's a good backup and a good spot starter, not a 16 game starter IMO.

But there is of course the issue if there is anyone worth it..

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Old 12-02-2008, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80
I want the 49ers draft to look something like this

1st - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
2nd - Phil Loadholt, RT, Oklahoma or Fenuki Tupou, RT, Oregon
3rd - Rashad Johnson, FS, Alabama
4th - Jordan Shipley, WR, Texas
5th - Joe Burnett, CB/KR/PR, Central Florida
6th - Roland Martin, OG, Michigan State
7th - Corey Lewis, Northern Iowa

To go along with the signing of Albert Haynesworth, and I don't care how much it costs, and the resigning of Takeo Spikes. I we should play a 4-3 and a front seven looking like this,

Justin Smith - Kentwan Balmer - Albert Haynesworth - Brian Orakpo
Manny Lawson - Patrick Willis - Takeo Spikes

would be very good, imo. The secondary will be good enough with Clements and Reggie Smith/Tarell Brown at corner, Michael Lewis at SS, and Rashad Johnson at FS. Aubrayo Franklin, Ronald Fields, Roderick Green, Banta-Cain, Roman, and Donald Strickland should be gone.
I definitely agree with you about us going back to the 4-3 on a full time basis but I disagree about going after Haynesworth. Most DT's have a history of being awesome in a contract year and after getting paid, become average. Besides, we just signed Sopoaga to a 5 year deal and drafted Balmer. Going after Haynesworth doesnt make any sense to me because Balmer or Sopoaga would be coming off the bench and im sorry, you dont sign a player to a 5 year deal and draft a first rounder to be coming off the bench. I agree with you about letting Franklin leave but I would keep Fields as the backup DT.

I would resign Spikes before FA starts if Dansby gets franchised or resigned by ARZ beforehand but if not, I let Spikes leave and go after Dansby instead and trust me, I would sign him. If Dansby is stuck or stays in ARZ, then I would resign Spikes but I wouldnt overpay him. LB wise, I would most likely release Cain but I would keep Green as he's one of the few pass rushers we have but like others, is misused.

DE wise, we have Justin Smith with McDonald and Haraylson as the backups. Of course, im sure you already know who I would go after to start at the other DE spot. That's right, Terrell Suggs. Like Dansby, he would give us what we're missing most on defense - a consistent pass rush. And like Dansby, if Suggs hits FA, I go after him with everything in order to make sure he's wearing a 49ers jersey in 2009 and no, it's not just for Halloween.

FA wise, all I care about is Suggs and Dansby in that order. If I could only pick one, I would pick Suggs (and then resign Spikes) because he completes our DL. Your front seven is good but I like mine better -

Suggs and Smith at DE with Sopoaga and Balmer at DT. Willis in the middle with Dansby and Lawson outside.

Secondary wise, Clements and M. Lewis are set at CB and SS respectively. I put Reggie Smith at FS where he belongs and draft CB Malcolm Jenkins in the first round and if that means trading away our second rounder or whatever to move up and ensure getting him, then so be it. It's all about quality, not quantity.

I agee about letting Roman go but I would keep Strickland for depth. CB wise, we would have Spencer, Brown, Hudson and Strickland in that order.

Overall, our defense would look like this -

DE - Suggs, Smith, McDonald, Haraylson
DT - Sopoaga, Balmer, Fields
OLB - Lawson, Dansby (or Spikes), Green, Ulbrich
MLB - Willis, Brooks, Grant
CB - Clements, Jenkins (R), Spencer, Brown, Hudson, Strickland
SS - M. Lewis, K. Lewis
FS - Smith, Goldson
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Didn't read anything Dan just said.

The reason why I don't want anymore top five picks is beacuse of the money. If we have too many more that will get us into cap hell. We have already gave out a ton of money to FA. Also if the team is good enough to win those games there is no reason why they shouldn't

Abaddon. I really like your mock I don't see Rashad Johnson falling that far though with the way his stock is rising.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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I would rather not pay the money for a top 5 guy at this point. We have enough needs that someone in the 8-12 range is easily going to fill a need. Drafts are successful based on more than pick #1, 2-7 as a whole are more important because that is where you get your value and most contribution.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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As of right now, we're between the 7th and 10th draft picks and quite honestly, I dont see us ending up with a top 5 draft pick but I do want to be in the top 10 so the team can trade up and get Jenkins.

And you guys talk about spending money on high draft picks but when you spend less money on players who dont help the team (Cain, Franklin, Roman, etc.) what's the point?

We've spent money the last two years but we will also be letting players go which will free up cap room plus the cap itself will probably be around $125m or so. The way you get into cap hell is by overpaying players past their prime or not setting up their contracts correctly (see Larry Fitzgerald's rookie contract). That's how you get into cap hell.

Signing Suggs and/or Dansby isnt going to put us in cap hell if the contracts are spread out correctly. Besides, the defense would finally be set barring injuries.

I just dont see why everyone's so worried about being in cap hell since we havent done a damn thing while not being in cap hell. If being in cap hell for a few years means going all out and winning a SB, then, im all for it because saving money and still sucking isnt exactly anything to be happy about.
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