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Old 12-23-2009, 02:08 PM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
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I'm cool off of Owens. I've had him once and don't want him again. He's talented but he's not a guy you want with a team that is slowly getting better.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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4 weeks ago I would've said heck yeah bring in Owens. But honestly, the last couple of weeks Morgan has looked like a baller. VS. Phi Morgan was always breaking the first tackle and blocking like a maniac. Remember, this is what, Morgan's 2nd or 3rd season after being a 6th rounder? I say Morgan, Hill, and Jones are solid depth at the WR position behind Crabtree. Add that we have arguably the two most athletic TEs in the game, I think we're ok at WR....invest in O-line and pass rush please.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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invest in O-line and pass rush please.
for the second year in a row, no less.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
for the second year in a row, no less.
I would argue even longer than that, but those were widely agreed upon as our two top needs last off season for sure. The Niners did get some depth with picks in last year's draft and a future star in Crabtree. If we didn't have Crabs and took Oher, our O-Line issues would be less, but still wouldn't be solved (needing a LG & C of the future) and we'd definitely need to Draft at least one WR this year, in which I think the talent pool is overall less, and a (somewhat controversial) talent like Dez Bryant likely won't even fall to the Niners first pick. It is what it is. So long as Draft picks produce within a few years, then they are never a bad choice. Right now, previous picks like Cody Wallace leave my scratching my head as he hasn't ever suited up for a game in 2 years.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Right now, previous picks like Cody Wallace leave my scratching my head as he hasn't ever suited up for a game in 2 years.
Looks like Wallace will be getting a chance to save his career with the Niners:

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/...or-a-game.html

I'd like to see Jason Hill get some more looks in these next two games too.
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Looks like Wallace will be getting a chance to save his career with the Niners:
I'd like to see Jason Hill get some more looks in these next two games too.
Other players I'd like to see...

WR - Brandon Jones
DE - Ricky Jean-Francois
OLB - Diyral Briggs
ILB - Scott McKillop
ILB - Matt Wilhelm
DB - Reggie Smith
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Old 12-25-2009, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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Right now, previous picks like Cody Wallace leave my scratching my head as he hasn't ever suited up for a game in 2 years.
That pick doesnt bother me because I don't expect him to beat out Heitmann for a spot on the line any time soon.
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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That pick doesnt bother me because I don't expect him to beat out Heitmann for a spot on the line any time soon.
Exactly.

The only reason I was upset was how much I wanted Carl Nicks at that point.
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac
Other players I'd like to see...

WR - Brandon Jones
DE - Ricky Jean-Francois
OLB - Diyral Briggs
ILB - Scott McKillop
ILB - Matt Wilhelm
DB - Reggie Smith
Jones sucks and isnt worth half the money that McCloughan gave him and quite honestly, anyone who would rather pay him over T.O. is out of their damn mind.

Isnt Briggs the guy everyone was raving about a few months ago??? Amazing how he's disappeared since then.

Wilhelm is crap. I have seen him play when he was with SD and trust me, he's not worth watching.

I agree with you about Francois, McKillop and Smith.
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Jones sucks and isnt worth half the money that McCloughan gave him and quite honestly, anyone who would rather pay him over T.O. is out of their damn mind.
How do you know he sucks? Has he shown you that on the field?
I guess I'm out of my mind beccause I'd rather pay Brandon Jones what he is making than have to pay what TO will want for one season of aging football.

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Isnt Briggs the guy everyone was raving about a few months ago??? Amazing how he's disappeared since then.
I don't think Diyral Briggs has ever been raved about. He hasn't barely played all season.

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Wilhelm is crap. I have seen him play when he was with SD and trust me, he's not worth watching.
I don't trust you. I want to see if he's a capable backup at TED.
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Wilhelm is crap. I have seen him play when he was with SD and trust me, he's not worth watching.
How much of him did you see, Dan? You often mention that you never see Niners games; so, how often do you see San Diego games?
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Old 12-25-2009, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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4 weeks ago I would've said heck yeah bring in Owens. But honestly, the last couple of weeks Morgan has looked like a baller. VS. Phi Morgan was always breaking the first tackle and blocking like a maniac. Remember, this is what, Morgan's 2nd or 3rd season after being a 6th rounder? I say Morgan, Hill, and Jones are solid depth at the WR position behind Crabtree. Add that we have arguably the two most athletic TEs in the game, I think we're ok at WR....invest in O-line and pass rush please.
I'm happy with Crabtree as the starter and Morgan right now but having Owens and Crabtree with Morgan in the slot is a HUGE upgrade. I dont care if you like Owens or not but this isnt even debateable. Hell, I dont like Moss but I wouldnt be stupid enough not to upgrade if I had the chance to do so.

After Morgan, what depth????? While Hill has only played in 9 games, he only has 7 receptions for 73 yards and 2 TDs. Hill is at best the fourth receiver on our team. And Jones??? Are you kidding me??? Just checked his contract at ninercaphell.com and he's going to make about $15m for the next four years. Sorry, but we gave him all this money and for what??? 9 games played with ONE reception for 18 yards.

But all you guys are right. We have great depth and im sure we all have the upmost confidence in Hill and Jones. Please, give me a damn break. After Crabs and Morgan, we have NOTHING period. Everyone talks about releasing Michael Lewis to save money and because he's bad in coverage but guess what, Brandon Jones is ahead of him as he was the biggest waste of a signing since Jonas Jennings.

I'm sure we have plenty of cap room (and if anyone knows the actual amount, it would be appreciated if its posted) for 2010 and quite honestly, we need to sign some players who will be worth the money. Add in other players who'll be gone like Bruce, Battle, Baas and Roman plus the chance that Lewis and Jones will be released and we'll have plenty of cap room for 2010 as well as enough money left over to extend some of our own players.

I dont want to see us go nuts though. I do however want to see us sign a few players at positions we need starters at. Mainly OG and FS with OT and ILB being secondary depending on who's available. I see FS being the best bet since I dont think that GB will franchise Nick Collins. Sure, there's always the chance he re-signs with GB but I think that he'll hit the FA market. If we sign Collins, we could release Lewis and move Goldson to SS which would hopefully solve two positions in one shot.

As for OL, aside from Jahri Evans, there's a few other players that would be worth a look if they hit UFA, OT Marcus McNeill, OT Alex Barron, OG Logan Mankins and OT Nick Kaczur. If we cant get Evans, I think that Mankins would be a great fit opposite Rachal. Thoughts on that? McNeill worries me in regards to his injuries and Barron has never lived up to his first round statusso both of them would be question marks.

If we can come away with Evans/Mankins, Collins and either Ryans/Jackson/Dansby plus T.O. going into the draft, we would be in superb position because we could then draft a RT (Trent Williams) and a RB (C.J. Spiller) that everyone wants with CB being our second rounder. After the second round, everything else could be used for depth across the board.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac
How do you know he sucks? Has he shown you that on the field? I guess I'm out of my mind beccause I'd rather pay Brandon Jones what he is making than have to pay what TO will want for one season of aging football.

I don't think Diyral Briggs has ever been raved about. He hasn't barely played all season.

I don't trust you. I want to see if he's a capable backup at TED.
I answered Jones in my previous post but he's going to get paid $15m over the next four years and for what??? ONE catch for 18 yards??? He couldnt even break out in TEN where their WR core was just as bad as ours and maybe even worse. Sorry but if you rather pay Jones $3m+ for 2010 instead of releasing him and paying T.O. double what Jones would be getting, you have some serious issues against T.O. You act as if T.O. sucks or something. Rashaun Woods, Brandon Williams and even Jason Hill sucks compared to T.O. We have a chance of actually having some ******* offense with Owens, Crabs, VD and Morgan and you would rather keep Jones and pay him $15m to sit on the bench as opposed to bringing back T.O.??? Thats insane.

I definitely favor T.O. as he's my favorite player but its not like he's coming in like Bruce, Conway or Morton did - as a washed up veteran. T.O.'s one year stint in BUF will be to him what OAK was to Moss. A fluke. And considering the fact that maybe you and others were happy with the signing of Bruce who is nowhere near T.O.'s level anymore, I dont see why you would rather keep Jones instead of not bring back T.O.

As for Briggs, maybe it was the pre-season. I do remember some people here raving about him months ago but if he's barely played this season, that should tell you something.

I've seen him play in SD and while he's not horrible, he's not better than a special teamer. He's definitely no backup to Willis or Spikes thats for sure. The two years he was a starter in SD, they tried to replace him but those players were worse than he was and then he signed in Philly and despite all their injuries, couldnt hold on to a roster spot.

The only positive that Wilhelm may have is that he knows Manusky from SD. Otherwise, I would rather see McKillop play and move up the depth chart.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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How much of him did you see, Dan? You often mention that you never see Niners games; so, how often do you see San Diego games?
Actually, I have seen more Chargers games over the last few years than I have seen 49ers games because SD is a far better team than what we are and because of that, are on more national TV spots than our 49ers are. I've seen Wilhelm and he's a special teamer and fourth on our depth chart at best. Like I said in my previous post, he couldnt even win a roster spot despite all the injuries that the Eagles had/have at the LB position. That should also tell you something about Wilhelm.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Seeings how Jones isn't tearing up our locker room, I would definitely keep him instead of TO.

Not to mention, the way we're dropping passes this year, the last thing we need is someone who known for drops.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, im playing favorites (like everyone does) but I just felt like posting this -

Jason Hill -
9 games played, 7 receptions, 73 yards, 2 TD's

Brandon Jones -
9 games played, 1 reception, 18 yards

Josh Morgan -
14 games played, 14 games started, 46 receptions, 479 yards, 3 TD's

Michael Crabtree -
9 games played, 9 games started, 41 receptions, 499 yards, 2 TD's

Terrell Owens -
14 games played, 14 games started, 47 receptions, 725 yards, 4 TD's

49ers receivers -

95 receptions, 1069 yards, 7 TD's total. Subtract Crabtree or Morgan and Owens has the other three beat combined. So much for being an old washed up veteran. Plus, both QB's in BUF sucks, they have a billion injuries with almost 20 players on IR and a horrible OL that makes our OL look like Indys. Owens isnt washed up and you guys know it. If you just dont want him back for whatever reason, say so but dont say he's washed up when you know he's not. That would be like me going back to 2005 and saying that Moss is done. Give me a break.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Seeings how Jones isn't tearing up our locker room, I would definitely keep him instead of TO.

Not to mention, the way we're dropping passes this year, the last thing we need is someone who known for drops.
Oh please. I'm so sick and tired of reading and hearing that crap. Last time I checked, Owens doesnt control what all the other players and staff do or dont do. The only reason T.O. gets the blame is because he's an easy target and quite honestly, if it wasnt for Miles Austin who was under T.O.s wing by the way, the Cowboys wouldnt be any better than we are and thats a fact. Plus, they would have traded away so much for so little in regards to Roy Williams. And look at this year in BUF, even to my surprise, T.O. hasnt gone nuts or anything and with only two games left, I doubt that he will. Like Moss in 2007, he just wants to put the previous season behind him and move on to being like he was beforehand.

And Brandon Jones is a nobody so of course, he isnt going to complain or anything. Hell, if I was making $15m or so for sitting on the bench, I wouldnt complain either. And stop complaining about the drops. EVERY WR drops even the easiest passes so stop acting as if Owens is the only one whe he's not.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Bringing back T.O. would be disastrous. All the toughness and hardwork that Singletary installed would be thrown out the window. Why bring in a severely diminished Owens and risk him infecting our team with his awful attitude? Might as well just bring back a pushover coach like Erickson as well. I would never EVER support Owens in SF again. Do you not remember how he **** all over the franchise after he left? And you want him back?
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:11 PM    (permalink
king2am
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And stop complaining about the drops. EVERY WR drops even the easiest passes so stop acting as if Owens is the only one whe he's not.
1. Acting as if owens is the only one? I said the way we're dropping passes... As in our current players. As in, people other than TO. Is that clear enough? Or are you going to continue to put words in my mouth?

2. Stop complaining about drops? Umm, they are counterproductive. Why would any fan of football not complain about drops? I complain when VD drops em, or Crabs.

I shouldn't stop complaining about drops. You should stop acting as if all the drops and the horrible attitude are worth the dwindling production from an aging receiver, and the price tag that goes with it.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I would like to see TO back in a niners uniform. He has great talent and will be a great teacher to our your wrs. and To has been our good behavior is Buf u havent heard much from him all year even with the horrible qb play there. So i think something hit him when he got cut from dallas. and if nothing else we sign him to a year deal he starts trouble we cut him, and if he doesnt and plays how he did in dallas and the old niners days, we just added a pro bowl caliber wr and i am down for that any day of the week!!!!
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Borat
Bringing back T.O. would be disastrous. All the toughness and hardwork that Singletary installed would be thrown out the window. Why bring in a severely diminished Owens and risk him infecting our team with his awful attitude? Might as well just bring back a pushover coach like Erickson as well. I would never EVER support Owens in SF again. Do you not remember how he **** all over the franchise after he left? And you want him back?
First, I actually think that Singletary could get to T.O. to where he wouldnt even be a problem. And what about Vernon Davis? He was on the same path as T.O. but without any production and now look at him, he's one of the best TE's in the NFL and should only get better.

Aside from bashing Garcia, feel free to post some stuff about anything negative Owens said back then not that it matters or that I even care. EVERY player bashes their former team. Look at Favre and he's supposedly one of the all-time greats except for the fact that like T.O., he's a jack*** too at times but unlike T.O., he gets away with it because he's the "great" Brett Favre. Give me a break bud. Besides, its not like its something new or a big deal or anything. I personally could care less about all this other crap. My main concern with Owens is this - do I still think that he can be the dominant receiver he was before he went to BUF? Yes, I do especially with all the weapons he would have around him in SF. Add a much improved OL and yeah, I think that not only him but everyone could do some major damage to opposing defenses. In the end, all these guys are getting paid millions of dollars for one thing - to play great and win games for the team. Not to be buddy buddy with everyone. And unlike so many other players in the league, at least Owens has never had any legal problems off the field. You have to at least give him credit for that considering you see players get arrested every other week for something.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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1. Acting as if owens is the only one? I said the way we're dropping passes... As in our current players. As in, people other than TO. Is that clear enough? Or are you going to continue to put words in my mouth?

2. Stop complaining about drops? Umm, they are counterproductive. Why would any fan of football not complain about drops? I complain when VD drops em, or Crabs.

I shouldn't stop complaining about drops. You should stop acting as if all the drops and the horrible attitude are worth the dwindling production from an aging receiver, and the price tag that goes with it.
I'm sorry but complaining about the drops isnt going to solve the problem so whats the point in doing so? Owens attitude hasnt even been a problem in BUF. His problems in Philly wasnt just on him. That was on management as well and they knew it but Owens was the easy target. As for DAL, look at Roy Williams. He's been complaining too but you dont hear about it because he's not Owens or Moss. Dwindling production??? One bad season on a crappy team??? Does that mean Lee Evans sucks as well?

As for the price tag, I would rather pay Owens $6.5m per season than pay Brandon Jones half of that just to sit on the damn bench. Hell, mine as well just pay us instead.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Merry Christmas to everyone by the way
Only thing we've agreed to in this entire debate/conversation.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Focusing this much energy on TO right now isn't really worth it right now. The team has some other glaring holes they need to take care of. If they get TO I'd probably be happy, won't be ecstatic. If we don't get TO, I wouldn't really care too much either. If we don't address OL, Safety, Pass rush, I'm gonna be furious.
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