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Old 12-25-2009, 04:36 PM    (permalink
king2am
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
First, I actually think that Singletary could get to T.O. to where he wouldnt even be a problem. And what about Vernon Davis? He was on the same path as T.O. but without any production and now look at him, he's one of the best TE's in the NFL and should only get better.

And unlike so many other players in the league, at least Owens has never had any legal problems off the field. You have to at least give him credit for that considering you see players get arrested every other week for something.
To my knowledge, VD has never bashed his teammates in the media, so to say he was on TO's path is wishful thinking on your part.

Now we need to give someone credit for following the law? Should I get credit then to? Because I thought that's what was EXPECTED.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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**** T.O. He's not someone you want with a team that struggles with confidence and morale. He'll tear our team to shreds like he did before if things don't go his way. He's old and on the downside of his career. It would be a stupid investment to bring him in and it's really a stupid argument to bring someone in like him to replace someone on the upside of their career. Give me Crabtree and Morgan as the X and Y any day over T.O. We've had him before and certainly don't want to have him again. He's a locker room cancer, he gossips like a little girl, and he not going to produce for us like he has in the past. All he is is a mouth. If things aren't going his way, he'll kill the morale of the locker room. You know he's capable of doing so, so in reality, this is the stupidest acquisition debate put out this season. It's never going to happen. He's not the guy we need. Plain and Simple
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by binary
Focusing this much energy on TO right now isn't really worth it right now. The team has some other glaring holes they need to take care of. If they get TO I'd probably be happy, won't be ecstatic. If we don't get TO, I wouldn't really care too much either. If we don't address OL, Safety, Pass rush, I'm gonna be furious.
I can agree with this.
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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**** T.O. He's not someone you want with a team that struggles with confidence and morale. He'll tear our team to shreds like he did before if things don't go his way. He's old and on the downside of his career. It would be a stupid investment to bring him in and it's really a stupid argument to bring someone in like him to replace someone on the upside of their career. Give me Crabtree and Morgan as the X and Y any day over T.O. We've had him before and certainly don't want to have him again. He's a locker room cancer, he gossips like a little girl, and he not going to produce for us like he has in the past. All he is is a mouth. If things aren't going his way, he'll kill the morale of the locker room. You know he's capable of doing so, so in reality, this is the stupidest acquisition debate put out this season. It's never going to happen. He's not the guy we need. Plain and Simple
But will he cry when we talk about Alex Smith?
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Old 12-25-2009, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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But will he cry when we talk about Alex Smith?


that's MY quarterback

also, this reminded me of a certain game:



I was such a huge fan of Jeff Garcia; one of the saddest days for me as a Niner fan was when they couldnt afford to keep him because of their cap hell.
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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I was such a huge fan of Jeff Garcia; one of the saddest days for me as a Niner fan was when they couldnt afford to keep him because of their cap hell.
I remember watching that 1990 NFC Championship game, and remember yelling at the TV, "Look out Joe, he's behind you!"
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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TO has declining talent as YAY pointed out, led the league in drops when he was also leading in receptions in Dallas, & has an emotional age of about 9-10.

The 9ers don't want or need him, once burned, twice shy. The 9ers moved on from TO a long while ago, the Eagles did so in record time when he tried to chisel something like 40% of their team cap into his pocket & he ended up with a Conduct Detrimental suspension on his resume.

Just ask Jeff Garcia what he thought of TO posting on his website that he was *** just b/c he plays QB is EssEff. TO is shameless, ego-maniacal, immature, & a fraud as a superstar athlete. Don't even discuss him coming back to the 9ers. Seriously.
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LizardState
the Eagles did so in record time when he tried to chisel something like 40% of their team cap into his pocket & he ended up with a Conduct Detrimental suspension on his resume.
Oh please, you're not even posting the entire situation. Owens was due a $7.5m roster bonus in March 2006 which was Phillys way out of his 7 year contract. Owens didnt want more money. He simply wanted the $7.5m bonus money a year in advance and considering the fact that the Eagles never had any intentions on keeping him for more than two seasons, you can see why they denied his request. After all, if you're going to pay a player that money anyway and with the cap room that Philly had which would have easily absorbed it without any problems and the fact that a lot of teams extend or adjust contracts in NOV/DEC in order to use up whatever cap room is permitted by the NFL before the start of the new league year, why shouldnt Philly pay him? Its also funny how McNabb's best season is still 2004 with surprise, surprise, T.O.

As for the suspension, that was a setup. Why would managment send in Hugh Douglas into the locker room while Owens was in that cold tub (dont know what its actually called) icing down his body and challenge him knowing that T.O. wasnt going to back down from him? It was to setup his suspension and avoid paying him the bonus money and to make him look like the bad guy when it was in fact 50/50. Management could have easily suspended him during the off-season but didnt because they wanted to milk him. They also suspended him because they knew that if he was to play well with McMahon (like he did with Rattay in 2003), that the Eagles would have a huge problem in regards to McNabb/Owens/McMahon and they didnt want to risk that.

I love how everyone bashes T.O. but yet no one gives him credit for working his ass off rehabbing from a broken fibula and put on an MVP performance in the SB against NE while the hundred million dollar man, Donovan McNabb choked and couldnt suck it up for four hours. Look at the majority of players nowadays, even the most minor injury, the player wants to sit out while still getting paid. Hell, we had one of the worst in 49ers history with Jonas Jennings but im sure that some here will still backup that signing as a good one.

For those who dont want him back, thats fine, thats your opinion. I personally would love to have him back because he'll give us some damn offense which we havent had since he was a 49er and thats my opinion but hey, to each his/her own.
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Old 12-26-2009, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post


that's MY quarterback

also, this reminded me of a certain game:



I was such a huge fan of Jeff Garcia; one of the saddest days for me as a Niner fan was when they couldnt afford to keep him because of their cap hell.
I loved that video and game. Strahan was funny as hell when he was pointing at the scoreboard after Owens scored his second TD but im sure he wasnt laughing when the game was over. LMFAO.

Didnt they offer Garcia $5m for 2004 but he turned it down which led to his release?

After 2003, we lost way too many players. Garcia, Hearst, Owens, Streets, Stone, Deese, Stubblefield and Bronson. Thats 8 starters with 6 of them on offense. There's just no way to rebound from that especially when you're in cap hell.
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Old 12-26-2009, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Oh please, you're not even posting the entire situation. Owens was due a $7.5m roster bonus in March 2006 which was Phillys way out of his 7 year contract. Owens didnt want more money. He simply wanted the $7.5m bonus money a year in advance and considering the fact that the Eagles never had any intentions on keeping him for more than two seasons, you can see why they denied his request. After all, if you're going to pay a player that money anyway and with the cap room that Philly had which would have easily absorbed it without any problems and the fact that a lot of teams extend or adjust contracts in NOV/DEC in order to use up whatever cap room is permitted by the NFL before the start of the new league year, why shouldnt Philly pay him? Its also funny how McNabb's best season is still 2004 with surprise, surprise, T.O.
They signed him for seven years 4.9 mill. He was slated to make 4.5 mill that year. He wanted more because he wasn't making as much as the top 10 WRs in the league that season. He was also throwing a hissy fit because he wasn't allowed to play in the NBA summer league. To make matters worse he signed that jackass Drew Rosenhaus.

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As for the suspension, that was a setup. Why would managment send in Hugh Douglas into the locker room while Owens was in that cold tub (dont know what its actually called) icing down his body and challenge him knowing that T.O. wasnt going to back down from him? It was to setup his suspension and avoid paying him the bonus money and to make him look like the bad guy when it was in fact 50/50. Management could have easily suspended him during the off-season but didnt because they wanted to milk him. They also suspended him because they knew that if he was to play well with McMahon (like he did with Rattay in 2003), that the Eagles would have a huge problem in regards to McNabb/Owens/McMahon and they didnt want to risk that.
There's no evidence of any of this. This entire paragraph is pure speculation and made up of **** that you think. Set-up? You gotta be kidding me.

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I love how everyone bashes T.O. but yet no one gives him credit for working his ass off rehabbing from a broken fibula and put on an MVP performance in the SB against NE while the hundred million dollar man, Donovan McNabb choked and couldnt suck it up for four hours. Look at the majority of players nowadays, even the most minor injury, the player wants to sit out while still getting paid. Hell, we had one of the worst in 49ers history with Jonas Jennings but im sure that some here will still backup that signing as a good one.
It would have been cool if he did that and shut up about it. He acted like the whole world owed him something for doing so and criticized his QB after that. Name one guy on here that would call that Jonas Jennings sign a good one. Go ahead I'll wait.

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For those who dont want him back, thats fine, thats your opinion. I personally would love to have him back because he'll give us some damn offense which we havent had since he was a 49er and thats my opinion but hey, to each his/her own.
Yeah to each his own. It just doesn't make sense to bring in a guy that drops more or as much passes as VD does. It doesn't make sense to bring in a guy who not much of a mentor and really offers nothing to the team. It doesn't make sense to bring in a guy like him around guys that he can influence.. and we have a lot of guys who are like that. He can easily ruin a team when thing
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB
They signed him for seven years 4.9 mill. He was slated to make 4.5 mill that year. He wanted more because he wasn't making as much as the top 10 WRs in the league that season. He was also throwing a hissy fit because he wasn't allowed to play in the NBA summer league. To make matters worse he signed that jackass Drew Rosenhaus.
Yeah, I know all that but like I said, he didnt want MORE money, he just wanted his $7.5m roster bonus earlier than it was due. He never wanted to rip up his contract and sign a new one like so many players nowadays want to do. Put simply, he wanted an advance on what he was expecting to get down the line anyway.

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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB
There's no evidence of any of this. This entire paragraph is pure speculation and made up of **** that you think. Set-up? You gotta be kidding me.
No, its not just what I think. It was posted on PFT when it happened. Douglas went in and started some crap with Owens. Owens jumped out of the tub, put on his sneakers for traction and went right up to Douglas and was in his face. There were other players around who witnessed the incident. None of it is made up by me and was reported by several sites including PFT, ESPN, etc. Here's one article I just found -

http://www.the700level.com/2005/11/to_hugh_throw_d.html

I wanted to find the PFT article but dont feel like going through page after page after a google search.

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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB
It would have been cool if he did that and shut up about it. He acted like the whole world owed him something for doing so and criticized his QB after that. Name one guy on here that would call that Jonas Jennings sign a good one. Go ahead I'll wait.
Maybe, he went overboard but working his ass off to play in the SB showed that he has the passion, will and desire to play and win unlike most players who only want a paycheck and could care less about winning or losing. As for bashing McNabb, quite honestly, I would have done the same. Seriously, how could you not if you're T.O.? Here you are working your ass off from a broken fibula and McNabb who at the time was under a hundred million dollar contract cant suck it up for four hours because he has the damn flu??? Come on man.

If it was 2005, im pretty sure that I could find a lot of them and im guessing yourself included.

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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB
Yeah to each his own. It just doesn't make sense to bring in a guy that drops more or as much passes as VD does. It doesn't make sense to bring in a guy who not much of a mentor and really offers nothing to the team. It doesn't make sense to bring in a guy like him around guys that he can influence.. and we have a lot of guys who are like that. He can easily ruin a team when thing
And what if he's like he's been in BUF? He's been quiet to say the least and hasnt caused any problems whatsoever. If you knew beforehand that he would be like that and actually help us win and provide a more explosive offense, would you still not want him?
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Didnt they offer Garcia $5m for 2004 but he turned it down which led to his release?
I forget the numbers, but Cleveland over-paid Jeff to the point where he'd be dumb NOT to take it. Then Mooch went to Detroit, and got Jeff after his one year stint in Cleveland (they cut him after a year). He was in Detroit for a couple season and then went to Philly, where he played well when he was in the game. Even won a bunch of games a couple seasons ago.

Point is, he could have been the starter in SF at least until 2006 or '07.
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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And what if he's like he's been in BUF? He's been quiet to say the least and hasnt caused any problems whatsoever. If you knew beforehand that he would be like that and actually help us win and provide a more explosive offense, would you still not want him?
So if I could guarantee that he would be productive, quiet, and contribute as a leader would I want him? Ummm..yes.

The funny part is, you talk about those traits like they are a given with him. You can't guarantee ANY of those.

Oh, and I love how you only compared Owens' stats (which do not scream #1 receiever to me) to our receievers, one who has missed half the year, and left out Alex's favorite target.

Here's a comparison for you:

Vernon Davis: 69 : 858 : 11
Terrell Owens: 47 : 725 : 4
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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I forget the numbers, but Cleveland over-paid Jeff to the point where he'd be dumb NOT to take it. Then Mooch went to Detroit, and got Jeff after his one year stint in Cleveland (they cut him after a year). He was in Detroit for a couple season and then went to Philly, where he played well when he was in the game. Even won a bunch of games a couple seasons ago.

Point is, he could have been the starter in SF at least until 2006 or '07.
Yeah, I know all about Garcia going to CLE for 20014, DET for 2005 and then PHI for 2006 and TB for 2007 and 2008 and how he did. Key word is "could" have been the starter in SF for a few more years. You dont know how he would have done considering all the others offensive starters that we lost.

I just wanted to know if SF offering him $5m to stay was accurate since I dont remember the exact details. The only thing is that I remember management wanting to cut his salary due to cap reasons and whatnot.
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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So if I could guarantee that he would be productive, quiet, and contribute as a leader would I want him? Ummm..yes.

The funny part is, you talk about those traits like they are a given with him. You can't guarantee ANY of those.

Oh, and I love how you only compared Owens' stats (which do not scream #1 receiever to me) to our receievers, one who has missed half the year, and left out Alex's favorite target.

Here's a comparison for you:

Vernon Davis: 69 : 858 : 11
Terrell Owens: 47 : 725 : 4
I cant guarantee any of that. I just wanted to see some opinions on what I said. In short, the majority here dont want T.O. because of his attitude and really doesnt have anything to do with his ability. Everyone says that he's declined but I'll only believe that if he has two bad seasons in a row. If for example, he goes to a playoff caliber team in 2010 and does what he's done in previous years, it will be safe to say that it wasnt him but everything around him like Moss when he was in OAK.

Speaking of Moss, I remember some here wanting him when he was a UFA in 2008 but yet he's a cancer too just like T.O. so quite honestly, I dont really see the difference between the two.

Davis has had a great year but we were talking about the WR position and Davis isnt a WR, he's a TE. We were talking about the depth at WR and after Crabs and Morgan, its average (Hill) and crap (Jones). Davis has nothing to do with the WR position or the depth at that position.

Crabtree missing half the season isnt Owens fault but look at all the stuff in BUF. A head coaching change, a crappy OL line, a crappy starting QB and injuries to 20 or so players who are on IR. Our team has been there and we didnt do any better. Also, Lee Evans is having a crappy season as well but does that mean he's washed up as well?

Like I have said before, I dont give two craps about all this other garbage. All I care about is if I think Owens can help us on the field offensively and make our offense more effective and dangerous. I think he can. Owens, Crabtree, Morgan, Davis and Gore. Thats five possible weapons on any given play. Few teams have half that many weapons let alone a possible five. Add in a full off-season with Smith and company along with them hopefully adding plays to the playbook that takes advantage of Smith's strengths and hides his weaknessess. Add in some much needed help to the OL and you have to admit that at the very least, you would be excited and anticipate the possibilities. At least I would.

Anyway, im going to stop with the T.O. talk for now. Of course, once we get near the start of the new league year and if it becomes evident that T.O. becomes an UFA and doesnt re-sign with BUF, then you can expect me to bring up the subject again.

And on a related side note, we're 6-8 and havent had a winning season for the seventh straight year so quite honestly, its not like there's much else to talk about.

Like me talking about T.O., we can only talk about FA and the Draft so many times.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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"Everybody knows he's a laid-back coach, obviously a little different than Bill. ... I don't think you have to be a disciplinarian to get your point across", Owens said. "I think having a new head coach is good for everybody. It's a little bit more relaxed. I think you can tell that by the atmosphere in the locker room. I don't think I just have to really spell it out for you, but I think it's very evident."
Coach Sing's a laid back guy. They'd get on great...


---


Dan, I understand what you're saying about TO's talent but he's not worth the trouble he would bring. We have a young impressionable WR finally locked up on a decent contract after a lengthy and damaging holdout. We have a fiery young TE who's on the way back from being a prima donna to becoming a fine team captain and a strong leader and we a (still) young QB trying to finally put together what injury and a poor supporting cast near ruined. The further from those vital offensive elements TO is, the better.

Bringing in an old WR as a mentor would be fine, Bruce worked out great for us, but not one with the potential to be as divisive as TO. TO might want to win, but that's not the sign of a leader. Leaders are about the team, TO's all about himself. Leaders inspire, I just don't think TO would bring that to the locker room.

Maybe, just maybe, if he could somehow prove that he's changed drastically and was willing to take a tiny salary. Then I'd think about it.
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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I dont see how comparing stats works in this discussion when half the year we weren't throwing the ball a lot, and we rarely have more than 2 WRs on the field at any given time. Of course their stats will be low.
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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I just want to say one thing -

GIANTS ******* suck!!!!! Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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I just want to say one thing -

GIANTS ******* suck!!!!! Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah, so much for getting a higher pick. we may very well have back-to-back picks in the first
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Hey, the Panthers have to play the Saints next week. I know that after the lovely display we put on today, that may not mean much, but I'm hoping that this will be one of those situations were it is good to be both a Saints and 49ers fan.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he meant that Alex Smith is the Answer. I still don't think he is either.

Note that vs. Seattle 2 games back he had the ball in his hands in the late 4th qtr. & he was inaccurate, how many times have we seen this before? then Seattle had it & Hasselbeck (who has been considered by many to be over the hill or an inferior QB) connected on his passes & moved the chains, the difference in QBs was plain.

Yes the shotgun/spread has been user-friendly for Smith & he seems to be getting something going with Crabtree but I think it's too little too late, & Smith needs to overachieve to overcome the horrible history he has with the 9ers past regimes.



Smith needs a new NFL city & the 9ers need a new franchise QB (not named Hill). Locker in 2011!!
I made this comment last year because of the blind ignorance of many 49ers fans in regards to Shaun Hill. I had numerous arguments (punctuated by the comment made below towards me by one fan) on the topic and I just remembered the previous conversations. They severely bothered me lol. (wanted to vent i guess lol)
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't be really upset if we signed T.O. or anything if Singletary is ok with it. The one area I really trust Coach Sing with is dealing with players so I think if he green lights the T.O. thing, it would be ok.

The one free agent I really hope the front office decides to pursue is O.J. Atogwe of the St. Louis Rams. The guy has forced the most turnovers in the NFL since 2006, something we definitely need. He's dating Mike Singletary's daughter so there's the obvious connection and he fills a big need and is a high character guy to boot. Rams won't let him go easy though and he is coming off a dislocated shoulder but that shouldn't be a problem.

There also looks like there will be a wide variety of guards on the market; it'd be really nice to grab one to lower the draft need as much.
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Old 12-31-2009, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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There also looks like there will be a wide variety of guards on the market; it'd be really nice to grab one to lower the draft need as much.
Who do you like that is on the market?
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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So what does our schedule look like for next year? I'm too lazy to actually look but I believe we play the NFC South and AFC West?
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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So what does our schedule look like for next year? I'm too lazy to actually look but I believe we play the NFC South and AFC West?
Yeah we do, tough draw i think.

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