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Old 01-26-2012, 12:10 PM    (permalink
dan77733
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
The 49ers got as far this season as they ever did with Owens. It's not "winning" that you wanted. It was tremendous WR play.
And if you were to add that tremendous WR play to the championship game, we would most likely be in the Super Bowl instead of the Giants. The reason the Giants are in the SB is because of the WR core. Subtract them and we blow them out.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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There are PLENTY of FA and draftable WRs this off-season to put to rest any talk of Owens and Moss. I actually think that WR may be the deepest position of this draft.
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Just saw a quote from Donte Whitner saying if we thought the defense was good this year just wait till they get the full playbook in. Won't that be scary if true.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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And if you were to add that tremendous WR play to the championship game, we would most likely be in the Super Bowl instead of the Giants. The reason the Giants are in the SB is because of the WR core. Subtract them and we blow them out.
And how many teams that do have a good receiving corps made it farther than we did? Not many. The Giants are in the Super Bowl because we coughed up the ball twice and spotted ten extra points. The 49ers were 13-3 in 1997 with Rice and Owens and still lost the championship game at home...and they had the number one defense in the NFL.

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I'm not making excuses or forgetting about the times Owens or whoever bitched. Quite simply, im saying that I dont care if he bitched. Owens is the last great receiver we've had and thats what I care about, period. You dont like him, fine. I do. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe and for the record, I never said to sign Owens/Moss, I said to bring them in for workouts and see how they do. Do I want either or both now? No but I do want an awesome young playmaking deep threat.

And I give you my word to stop mentioning Owens (and even Moss) if you stop bitching about Smith for the entire off-season and pre-season. Deal?

As for Rice, I said that's not going to happen. Would I go after him if he somehow hits UFA, hell yeah but dont see it happening so it doesnt matter. And I wanted Brees in 2005 when he was franchised but that didnt happen. Oh well.
You aren't on the team. You are a fan. Of course you don't care. That doesn't mean a guy like Owens doesn't cause headaches for his peers. Football is also a job where you have to respect your fellow employees and give your best effort. No matter how good of an employee you are if you are continuously causing headaches for the company and being a jerk to your other coworkers and even boss you can be let go eventually. Doesn't matter. Dan you are acting like the customer that gets great customer service from the said employee. Of course you wouldn't care.

And you wanted the 49ers to bring in Owens and Moss because you wanted them to sign them plain and simple. Don't beat around the bush Dan. If they came in and both weren't signed you would have been bitching about that too.

Seeing as how Alex Smith was on this past roster and is most likely going to be on the roster in 2012, he should be up for criticism like any other player. It's actually a reality that he'll be on the team unlike Owens or Moss.

If you don't see Ray Rice becoming a free agent why are you even mentioning it? This is why no one else on the board is clamoring about the possibility of signing Ray Rice except yourself Dan, because everyone knows he'll be back in Baltimore as he is their top priority. Just like Brees is the top priority for the Saints. It's not like 2005 where the Chargers didn't want him back (technically they did but their contract offer was bogus) and there were question marks about Brees because of his recent injury. He also isn't the player he was coming out of San Diego either. Like Rice, Brees is going back to the Saints. Which is why no one is even mentioning the possibility of signing Brees to their team.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else find it a bit surprising Vic Fangio got no head coaching interest from other teams?
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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And how many teams that do have a good receiving corps made it farther than we did? Not many. The Giants are in the Super Bowl because we coughed up the ball twice and spotted ten extra points. The 49ers were 13-3 in 1997 with Rice and Owens and still lost the championship game at home...and they had the number one defense in the NFL.

You aren't on the team. You are a fan. Of course you don't care. That doesn't mean a guy like Owens doesn't cause headaches for his peers. Football is also a job where you have to respect your fellow employees and give your best effort. No matter how good of an employee you are if you are continuously causing headaches for the company and being a jerk to your other coworkers and even boss you can be let go eventually. Doesn't matter. Dan you are acting like the customer that gets great customer service from the said employee. Of course you wouldn't care.

And you wanted the 49ers to bring in Owens and Moss because you wanted them to sign them plain and simple. Don't beat around the bush Dan. If they came in and both weren't signed you would have been bitching about that too.

Seeing as how Alex Smith was on this past roster and is most likely going to be on the roster in 2012, he should be up for criticism like any other player. It's actually a reality that he'll be on the team unlike Owens or Moss.

If you don't see Ray Rice becoming a free agent why are you even mentioning it? This is why no one else on the board is clamoring about the possibility of signing Ray Rice except yourself Dan, because everyone knows he'll be back in Baltimore as he is their top priority. Just like Brees is the top priority for the Saints. It's not like 2005 where the Chargers didn't want him back (technically they did but their contract offer was bogus) and there were question marks about Brees because of his recent injury. He also isn't the player he was coming out of San Diego either. Like Rice, Brees is going back to the Saints. Which is why no one is even mentioning the possibility of signing Brees to their team.
I remember 1997. Rice got injured twice that year. In the opener thanks to Warren Sapp, then came back on MNF in December and broke his kneecap or something and was gone until 1998. So, with the exception of two games, Rice didnt play and Owens was only in his second season and was a nobody at the time. How can you compare 1997 to 2011? Come on man.

I never said that Owens wouldnt be a problem in the locker room. Quite honestly, if we were in the Super Bowl now with him as opposed to without him with a great chance to win the SB, you wouldnt have taken that? Sorry, if the answer is no then you shouldnt be on this board because you're not a true 49ers fan. Whether the team does stuff we like or dont like, we should always want them to win. Just because they didnt work out Owens and/or Moss doesnt mean that im all of a sudden want them to lose. And if they were brought in for physicals and passed them, then hell yeah, I wanted the team to sign either or both. I'm not covering up anything. I'm a straight shooter whether people like what im saying or not. Personally, I dont if people like what im saying or not. Now, the answer is no but we had a great opportunity to win the SB this yea and I dont see how at the very least bringing in Owens and/or Moss in for a workout would be such a big deal.

Smith is open to criticism like everyone else but with you, its 95% Smith and 5% everyone else and dont say thats not true because if you do, you're full of crap. Unlike you, I'll admit that I was hoping for Owens and/or Moss because I believe that they would do more good for six weeks than harm and help us get to the SB and win it. And I didnt mention Owens and/or Moss until Edwards was released because thats a weak link and arguably our number one need this off-season.

So because I dont think that Rice will become an UFA, I cant mention that if he does somehow hit UFA, I would easily go after him, sign him and then trade Gore? Me saying that is no different than the other guy here mentioning Forte yet the situation is the same yet I dont see you bitching to him about the same damn thing that you're bitching to me about...i.e. not hitting UFA so thus why mention him?

And fine, you hate T.O. but if you could see the future and saw us winning the SB with T.O, you would say no just because you dont like him? Come on, give me a break. Hell, if it was Moss instead of Owens, I would sign him just so we could win our 6th SB. Easily, a trade I would gladly accept and this is coming from someone who doesnt really care for Moss but if he could and would have helped us win our 6th SB, I would have said, **** yeah, sign his ass NOW. (well, not now but back in Dec after Edwards was released)
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else find it a bit surprising Vic Fangio got no head coaching interest from other teams?
Not really. Not sure if he really has head coaching aspirations. He's been a coordinator for many years and has never been looked at as a guy who was primed to be a HC. Just like Dom Capers in Green Bay after their SB run last year, I just think Fangio likes his role and is comfortable with it and doesn't want the hassle of being the head guy.

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Old 01-26-2012, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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I remember 1997. Rice got injured twice that year. In the opener thanks to Warren Sapp, then came back on MNF in December and broke his kneecap or something and was gone until 1998. So, with the exception of two games, Rice didnt play and Owens was only in his second season and was a nobody at the time. How can you compare 1997 to 2011? Come on man.
Terrell Owens had 936 yards on only 60 catches for an average of 15.6 yards per catch along with eight touchdowns. It was only his second season, but he showed the ability to make plays. How can't I compare the 2011 season to the 1997 should be the question. The 49ers had the number defense in the NFL and were +21 in takeways, which was 2nd in the NFL. And they had a Hall of Fame quarterback, yet they still lost at home to the Packers. J.J. Stokes even had a decent season for a number 2 wideout. This was also the 5th ranked offense in terms of point scored.

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I never said that Owens wouldnt be a problem in the locker room. Quite honestly, if we were in the Super Bowl now with him as opposed to without him with a great chance to win the SB, you wouldnt have taken that? Sorry, if the answer is no then you shouldnt be on this board because you're not a true 49ers fan. Whether the team does stuff we like or dont like, we should always want them to win. Just because they didnt work out Owens and/or Moss doesnt mean that im all of a sudden want them to lose. And if they were brought in for physicals and passed them, then hell yeah, I wanted the team to sign either or both. I'm not covering up anything. I'm a straight shooter whether people like what im saying or not. Personally, I dont if people like what im saying or not. Now, the answer is no but we had a great opportunity to win the SB this yea and I dont see how at the very least bringing in Owens and/or Moss in for a workout would be such a big deal.
Okay now you're thinking dream scenarios. If, when, could, Super Bowl, etc. as if automatically having Terrell Owens would have punched the Super Bowl ticket for the 49ers. That isn't necessarily true. So I'm not going to even answer that question because it's irrelevant and completely speculative. I would have loved to have Drew Brees on this team, but I'm not going to sit around, pretend this is Madden, and ***** and complain about who we should have brought in. Especially when the said players are either retired or in another league.

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Smith is open to criticism like everyone else but with you, its 95% Smith and 5% everyone else and dont say thats not true because if you do, you're full of crap. Unlike you, I'll admit that I was hoping for Owens and/or Moss because I believe that they would do more good for six weeks than harm and help us get to the SB and win it. And I didnt mention Owens and/or Moss until Edwards was released because thats a weak link and arguably our number one need this off-season.
Don't try and flip this into a "Ness vs. Smith" agenda. That's garbage. It has nothing to do whether I even think he is a good player or not. We were talking about Owens and Moss and how stupid it is of you to keep bringing in their names up in the desperate hope that the 49ers bring them in. Smith is on the team, Moss and Owens aren't. It's quite that simple. Even if you did want to try to go that route, I already said earlier after the Saints game that Alex has proved a lot of his critics, including me, wrong. Whoops, there goes your last chance at a rebuttal Dan. The "I'm going to turn this into a Ness vs. Smith" card is dead.

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So because I dont think that Rice will become an UFA, I cant mention that if he does somehow hit UFA, I would easily go after him, sign him and then trade Gore? Me saying that is no different than the other guy here mentioning Forte yet the situation is the same yet I dont see you bitching to him about the same damn thing that you're bitching to me about...i.e. not hitting UFA so thus why mention him?
You can mention it. It just sounds stupid is all. I didn't see the comment about Forte, but him hitting the FA market wouldn't be as surprising since he suffered a terrible injury. So no Dan, the situation is not the same. Rice is coming off an All-Pro season. Forte isn't.

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And fine, you hate T.O. but if you could see the future and saw us winning the SB with T.O, you would say no just because you dont like him? Come on, give me a break. Hell, if it was Moss instead of Owens, I would sign him just so we could win our 6th SB. Easily, a trade I would gladly accept and this is coming from someone who doesnt really care for Moss but if he could and would have helped us win our 6th SB, I would have said, **** yeah, sign his ass NOW. (well, not now but back in Dec after Edwards was released)
If I could see the future Dan there a lot of things in my life that I would change and football would be at the bottom of the list. Stop asking questions Dan based on speculative outcomes to try and support your angle. If we won the Super Bowl without Terrell Owens this year would you still be talking about this? See how that works?
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Terrell Owens had 936 yards on only 60 catches for an average of 15.6 yards per catch along with eight touchdowns. It was only his second season, but he showed the ability to make plays. How can't I compare the 2011 season to the 1997 should be the question. The 49ers had the number defense in the NFL and were +21 in takeways, which was 2nd in the NFL. And they had a Hall of Fame quarterback, yet they still lost at home to the Packers. J.J. Stokes even had a decent season for a number 2 wideout. This was also the 5th ranked offense in terms of point scored.

Okay now you're thinking dream scenarios. If, when, could, Super Bowl, etc. as if automatically having Terrell Owens would have punched the Super Bowl ticket for the 49ers. That isn't necessarily true. So I'm not going to even answer that question because it's irrelevant and completely speculative. I would have loved to have Drew Brees on this team, but I'm not going to sit around, pretend this is Madden, and ***** and complain about who we should have brought in. Especially when the said players are either retired or in another league.

Don't try and flip this into a "Ness vs. Smith" agenda. That's garbage. It has nothing to do whether I even think he is a good player or not. We were talking about Owens and Moss and how stupid it is of you to keep bringing in their names up in the desperate hope that the 49ers bring them in. Smith is on the team, Moss and Owens aren't. It's quite that simple. Even if you did want to try to go that route, I already said earlier after the Saints game that Alex has proved a lot of his critics, including me, wrong. Whoops, there goes your last chance at a rebuttal Dan. The "I'm going to turn this into a Ness vs. Smith" card is dead.

You can mention it. It just sounds stupid is all. I didn't see the comment about Forte, but him hitting the FA market wouldn't be as surprising since he suffered a terrible injury. So no Dan, the situation is not the same. Rice is coming off an All-Pro season. Forte isn't.

If I could see the future Dan there a lot of things in my life that I would change and football would be at the bottom of the list. Stop asking questions Dan based on speculative outcomes to try and support your angle. If we won the Super Bowl without Terrell Owens this year would you still be talking about this? See how that works?
I only brought up Owens/Moss because of Edwards being released. Did I mention either of them this entire season? No, I did not. I knew WR was a weakness and would have made a move to try to improve the position for the playoffs.

The Ness vs Smith agenda isnt ********. You talk about him as much as I talk about Owens so really whats the difference? You complain about Smith that he's not good, this or that and thinking a second year player in Kaepernick is going to do better than Smith. Well, like me wanting T.O. to return to SF for the playoff run, good luck with that. And do you even think that Smith is a good player or not? Of course, you probably think that T.O. sucked just because he was an asshole so it doesnt even matter what you think of Smith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya
And though RB is no where near a need for us, I would run naked through the streets if we signed Matt Forte. I have such a man crush on him and Arian Foster as far as running backs go.
There's the quote in regards to Rice/Forte. Forte is coming of an injury but he's still pretty good regardless of the injury. Both will probably be re-signed by their respective teams so if Vafyya can mention that he would love it if we signed Forte, why cant I say the same about Rice? Same crap, different player.

Again, I only mention Owens/Moss after Edwards was released. For six weeks, I seriously doubt that either would do any damage whatsoever and the upside would have been worth it. Of course, there's no guarantees but I honestly believe that if Williams didnt fumble twice and we still lost, you would be blaming Smith and dont say that you wouldnt because we both know you would because you blame that guy every chance you get and you know.

And if we were in the SB right now and say if we were to win it, I obviously wouldnt care that we didnt sign Owens and/or Moss but we didnt and we arent but the possibility of getting there and winning it would have been greater if we had a WR who could be more of a weapon and be a threat. Owens/Moss is a far bigger threat at 50% than Crabtree, Williams and Swain are at 100% combined.

Either way, none of that matters now. What does matter is that we need a playmaking deep threat at WR opposite Crabtree so unless Davis gets moved to be an actual WR and Walker as the starting TE, im hoping for DeSean Jackson if he's available as an UFA.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe we are arguing about TO.



Seriously, guys?
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe we are arguing about TO.



Seriously, guys?
Every single off-season........

It's as if there have not been any good WRs in the NFL since TO and Moss have arrived. -___-
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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Death.

Taxes.

Pointless arguments about Smith/T.O.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
I can't believe we are arguing about TO.

Seriously, guys?
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Every single off-season........

It's as if there have not been any good WRs in the NFL since TO and Moss have arrived. -___-
Okay okay. I'll stop guys. Sorry. But before I do, there have been a lot of good to great receivers in the NFL since T.O. and Moss but NONE of them have been on our beloved 49ers. :(
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Every single off-season........

It's as if there have not been any good WRs in the NFL since TO and Moss have arrived. -___-
Of course Owens and Moss are the only options for the 49ers. If we don't sign both of those guys this offseason we are truly doomed.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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I only brought up Owens/Moss because of Edwards being released. Did I mention either of them this entire season? No, I did not. I knew WR was a weakness and would have made a move to try to improve the position for the playoffs.

The Ness vs Smith agenda isnt ********. You talk about him as much as I talk about Owens so really whats the difference? You complain about Smith that he's not good, this or that and thinking a second year player in Kaepernick is going to do better than Smith. Well, like me wanting T.O. to return to SF for the playoff run, good luck with that. And do you even think that Smith is a good player or not? Of course, you probably think that T.O. sucked just because he was an asshole so it doesnt even matter what you think of Smith.
Really you didn't talk about Randy Moss after he retired at the beginning of August? From that point until Edwards was released you didn't talk about Owens or Moss? Are you sure about that?

In any case, the difference with me talking about Smith is that he's actually on the damn team and isn't either retired or in another league.

Oh and please show me where I said Kaepernick is going to do better than Smith. Show me. I'll wait.

And I never said Owens sucked. I said he was a headache. Way to put words in my mouth and get the argument twisted to try and save face. You fail once again Dan.

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There's the quote in regards to Rice/Forte. Forte is coming of an injury but he's still pretty good regardless of the injury. Both will probably be re-signed by their respective teams so if Vafyya can mention that he would love it if we signed Forte, why cant I say the same about Rice? Same crap, different player.

Again, I only mention Owens/Moss after Edwards was released. For six weeks, I seriously doubt that either would do any damage whatsoever and the upside would have been worth it. Of course, there's no guarantees but I honestly believe that if Williams didnt fumble twice and we still lost, you would be blaming Smith and dont say that you wouldnt because we both know you would because you blame that guy every chance you get and you know.

And if we were in the SB right now and say if we were to win it, I obviously wouldnt care that we didnt sign Owens and/or Moss but we didnt and we arent but the possibility of getting there and winning it would have been greater if we had a WR who could be more of a weapon and be a threat. Owens/Moss is a far bigger threat at 50% than Crabtree, Williams and Swain are at 100% combined.

Either way, none of that matters now. What does matter is that we need a playmaking deep threat at WR opposite Crabtree so unless Davis gets moved to be an actual WR and Walker as the starting TE, im hoping for DeSean Jackson if he's available as an UFA.
The hell? You don't know how Forte is going to come back from his injury. He may never ever be the same player he once was. And that's not unheard of because it's actually happened to runningbacks before. It's dumb for you to mention Rice because he didn't get injured and he is definitely going to be resigned to a fat contract. Forte was already at odds with the Bears regarding his contract situation for months. It's not a guarantee that he'll sign there now anyways.

The 49ers lost and I still didn't blame Smith all by himself. Go back to the game thread and check. There is no way to know how the game would have played out if Williams didn't fumble the ball. Again, stop trying to formulate speculative outcomes to save face and boost your side of the argument, which isn't even argument to begin with. WTF does Alex Smith have to do with Owens and Moss in the first place? Oh yeah, nothing. The "Ness against Smith" card is the only thing you have up your sleeve, and it's completely irrelevant.

The possibility of the 49ers getting to the Super Bowl every season for the last six or so years would have been greater if the 49ers got Philip Rivers in that rumored trade after the 2004 season, but I'm not sitting here speculating on possibilities that are now irrelevant to the future of this franchise.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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Can we please switch the topic to guys at the Senior Bowl who would fit with the Niners???

Please??????
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Ok here is a list of guys to watch for at the senior bowl:
I'm only listing guys that I think the niners could draft based on need and whether they would be available where the niners are selecting this year. I also excluded guys I am not fond of.

Offense:
QB
Kirk Cousins
Brandon Weeden

WR
Juron Criner
TJ. Graham
Marvin McNutt
Brian Quick
Marvin Jones
Joe Adams

OL
Philip Blake
Cordy Glenn
Zeitler
Keleche Osemele
Ben Jones
Senio Kelemete

Defense:

3-4 OLB
Jake Bequette
Vinny Curry
Cam Johnson

DL
Alameda Taamu
Derek Wolfe: as a late rd DE

DB
Dwight Bentley
Brandon Boykin
Leonard Johnson
Casey Heyward
Jamell Flemming
Trenton Robinson
Donnie Fletcher
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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I was reading today that if Goldson rejects the Niners first offer he will get the franchise tag.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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I was reading today that if Goldson rejects the Niners first offer he will get the franchise tag.
Didn't see that. I did see where they say Goldson is more likely to get the tag because they have absolutely no viable option at FS behind him. I also found it interesting that they have already spoken to Reggie Smith and told him that they basically won't be bringing him back. I thought Smith was a guy who just needed a opportunity. Too bad he got that knee injury during TC last year, as he was having a solid first impression with the new staff. What might have been. Also read Spencer wont be back at his current price tag of 3.2 mil. So either he takes a significant paycut or is cut. They also confirmed my thoughts about Cully....they see him as a viable option to start next year. Will be a very interesting off-season.


On another note, Niner Nation blog posted they seen the Niners talking to these prospects at the Senior Bowl....

* WR Juron Criner, Arizona
* WR Marvin McNutt, Iowa
* LB Keenan Robinson, Texas
* DT Brandon Thompson, Clemson
* RB Doug Martin, Boise State
* LB Bobby Wagner, Utah State

For those of you like Ray Rice, Doug Martin should be right up your alley. A Rice clone as far as I'm concerned.

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think of Marvin Jones?
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think of Marvin Jones?
He's a absolute stud. Caught some of the Senior Bowl practices and was highly impressed. Would love for us to grab him.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Hey Dan, looks like your boyfriend Asante Samuel is headed for free agency. Adjust your dream offseason accordingly lol.
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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Hey Dan, looks like your boyfriend Asante Samuel is headed for free agency. Adjust your dream offseason accordingly lol.
23 ints over the last four seasons. Tempting. For the right price, he would be a cheaper version of Rogers. Actually, if the Eagles release him, signing him wouldnt be a bad move because it would give them leverage for Rogers and if he wants to much to re-sign, they would have a cheaper playmaking corner.

Of course, I prefer a younger CB in free agency to start opposite Brown/Culliver but I dont see them going after a CB in FA period.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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He's a absolute stud. Caught some of the Senior Bowl practices and was highly impressed. Would love for us to grab him.
How can you be a loser with a name like Marvin Jones?
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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23 ints over the last four seasons. Tempting. For the right price, he would be a cheaper version of Rogers. Actually, if the Eagles release him, signing him wouldnt be a bad move because it would give them leverage for Rogers and if he wants to much to re-sign, they would have a cheaper playmaking corner.

Of course, I prefer a younger CB in free agency to start opposite Brown/Culliver but I dont see them going after a CB in FA period.
We will defintely sign a CB or two in free agency. I just hope one of them isnt Samuels. Unless they plan on making him the nickelback and his contract reflects as much.
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