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Old 03-11-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
dan77733
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We had the luck this year that there where so little injuries to major players except on the receiver spot. We never had the full receiver corps fit for a game and thats in my opinion a big part of why our passing game was so bad at the end of the season. When your can have consistent production on every position when you have to put in a back-up you can be a consistent producer and fight for the SB. Its not that you only need to have the starters full with the best talent you can have but its about the whole roster. When Willis went down you saw how important it is to have a back-up that can contribute to the team.

Besides that when you look at how Baalke drafted a lot of those guys are good parts of the team for the long term. Guys like Bowman, Davis, Iupati, Culliver, Miller, Smith and such can only get better while they are pretty good at this stage. Look at a team like the Steelers and you see the best example of how you can be a big player in the league with making the right calls in the draft room. Picking up guys that maybe need to learn for 1,2 years before they can play and then can replace a guy that wants to make too much money. Builiding a contributor is something you do over a longer term and not just go after the biggest fish you can. When you can keep Morgen or sign a veteran WR and draft a receiver that can learn behind him thats a way you can stay on the top.
Even if you add a healthy Morgan, do you really believe that he would have made a big enough impact? I dont. I dont think any defense would have changed their focus from Gore/Davis to Gore/Morgan or Davis/Morgan. Just isnt going to happen.

Everyone here talks about getting a rookie WR and developing him to where he can start in two to three years. Yeah, thats great if that happens but either way, what about now? Evereyone here seems to be missing three key points - first is that by the time be get a passing attack via the draft, chances are Gore will be pretty much done, Davis will be older as will the rest of the team and thus will most likely decline because unless every player plays like Justin Smith, its just something that cant be avoided and second, everyone talks about re-signing Morgan and then drafting a WR who can learn but who exactly is he going to learn from? Crabtree??? No thanks. Crabtree isnt helping anyone. He barely helps himself get better so the hell is he going to help a rookie WR? Third is in regards to Crabtree....Morgan and a rookie or a veteran isnt adding any pressure to Crabtree....he needs to be ******* pushed and unless we have a top tier automatic number one receiver, that will never happen and Crabtree will be nothing more than an average receiver. Sorry, but we've had worse than average for the last ******* decade and I dont know about anyone else here but im ******* sick of it. Enough with the mickey mouse bullcrap. Go get a ******* receiver who'll make an impact NOW and for years to come....a receiver who'll push Crabtree to get batter to where he might actually participate in TC and PreS. A receiver who'll force defenses not to always play 8 in the box and just wait for Gore to run on 3rd and 7. A receiver who'll make everyone else better because he'll work hard to be the best and thus, in turn forces everyone else to get ******* better.

And another thing, everyone keeps saying Steelers, Packers, Giants but you guys do realize that those teams HAD receivers before who they have now to learn from right? Wallace, Brown, Nicks, Jennings, etc. didnt have crappers around them or nobodies. They had guys like Ward, Burress and Driver to learn from. Seriously, what WR do we have that a rookie can learn from? Crabtree??? Only thing that WR will learn is how to miss TC and PreS three years in a row. Come on, theres a HUGE difference between them and us. They have good to great receivers, they have an offense, they have a passing attack which is why they, the Colts, Saints have won the last six or seven SB's or whatever the hell it is. They sure as hell didnt win it by defense, special teams and a running game alone.

Just like our 5 SB championships, subtract the QB/WR combo and none of them win the SB just like we wouldnt have 5 SB championships today. Yeah, the defense, etc. help you get there but its the offense that wins the SB. Not the defense because if that was true, over the last 14 or so years, it wouldnt have just been two defensive teams (Ravens/Buccaneers) that won the SB. It would have been the majority.

Everyone knows that you need a damn good QB first and foremost. Is Smith elite? Hell no but he can be as good or better than Garcia and when you add in the defense and special teams that Garcia didnt have along with a top tier WR and passing attack that we currently dont have, you have every aspect covered and every aspect is at a damn good and young level.

So, for everyone here who thinks that we can win a SB without a playmaking WR and an actual passing attack...I say good luck with that. I actually hope to be proven wrong but I dont see it happening, not in this era's NFL which is a fast paced, offensive based passing attack league.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Its all preference and opinion. I watch ALOT of Steelers games. Wallace is improving but he's still a very medicore route runner and I question his 'want' to go across the middle and make tough, chain-moving catches. People dont realize that Big Ben's escpability plays a part in Wallace's production. Ben buys time in the pocket most QBs dont have, where he's able to extend plays and allow guys like Wallace and Brown to come free underneath. Not saying that they're a by product of Big Ben, but he does buy more time in the pocket than the average QB to make plays, intermediate-deep. Its they're scheme that caters to Wallace's strengths. Arians ran more of a vertical scheme. Harbaugh's WCO isnt like others, in that is more similar to the traditional WCO than that of Philly, GB, and Houston. Less shotgun, more closed sets, more shifting and pre-snap motioning, more un-balanced lines, just a differnet mindset all together. Guys like Reid and McCarthy pass to set-up the run. Thats not Harbaugh's line of thinking. I still say this WCO wouldnt be the best fit for what you should be paying Wallace top dollar to do....which is get vertical and work off routes that cater to that element in his game.

Its not that I think Wallace is necessarily a bad WR. Its jus my opinion that he isn't worth what is being asked of him. I understand Baalke will offer guys. He puts a value on every free agent and target guys he likes. But I need more than the word of a beat writer who has been wrong more times than I can count, about excatly who were targeting until it happens. Baalke and Harbaugh run a very tight ship. They are very careful with info, especially in terms of personel. I'll take a wait and see approach to just how much intrest they show Wallace, VJax, and any other FA WR.
You do realize that Harbaugh's WCO isnt the same as years past because he doesnt have the offensive weapons to do that stuff. Seriously, do you really think that if Harbaugh had Wallace, he wouldnt open up the playbook and be more aggressive?

And while Big Ben helps Wallace, its not always the QB. The receiver still has to get open and make the catch. Two things our receivers have a lot of trouble doing.

In terms of FA, wll we can do is wait and see. As for Vincent Jackson, he's going to WSH as Snyder will overpay him. Be surprised if he goes anywhere else.
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm opening up nominations for the new name of this thread:

the early entrees are:

A) The Mike Wallace and Jesus Christ have never been seen at the same time ... so coincidence or evidence? thread

B) The how many posts can Dan make that state the exact ******* same thing? thread

C) Apparently, you can trade into the second half of the first round without giving up anything of good value because "don't worry, I got this -Dan" thread

Any other suggestions?
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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I vote for B
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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I got a suggestion -

D) How about instead of acquiring a top tier FA WR, we dont, stay ****** for the several years yet again while trying to rebuild through the draft which only took NINE ******* YEARS to do, get to the playoffs and get eliminated yet again by an inferior piece of crap 9-7 team because we dont have any mother ******* offense!!!

How about that one....because D gets my vote.
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Or it could be this one -

E) Everyone here thinks that we can win a SB with the **** that we have now not realizing if that was true, we would have won this past season, wouldnt we?

I like that one too and everyone here repeats themselves a billion times. Not like im the only one.
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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We would/could have won the superbowl if Williams wouldn't have muffed that punt or taken so much risks in overtime with the other punt. Both those moments gave the Giants a really short field to work with and they took advantage of it. Offcourse our Pass offense isn't the best in the league but when everyone was fit it was good enough because our run-game, defense and special team(which make us have short field to work with) are all good if not great. We where very close to win the superbowl this season and when you keep developing this team with minor signings and draftpicks you can compete every year.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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We would/could have won the superbowl if Williams wouldn't have muffed that punt or taken so much risks in overtime with the other punt. Both those moments gave the Giants a really short field to work with and they took advantage of it. Offcourse our Pass offense isn't the best in the league but when everyone was fit it was good enough because our run-game, defense and special team(which make us have short field to work with) are all good if not great. We where very close to win the superbowl this season and when you keep developing this team with minor signings and draftpicks you can compete every year.
Thats bullcrap and you know it. Add a damn good receiver and those two muffed punts never happens because we would never have been in that situation to begin with. I dont blame Williams at all. When you have no ******* offense and are playcalling like a bunch of chickenshits, eventually, you lose. Just a matter of time. And the reason why the playcalling blew chunks pretty much the entire season was because there's no playmaking receiver period.

And as much as I want Wallace, I'll take a Garcon, Colston and to a lesser extend Jackson because then at least, that guy will push Crabtree and be a playmaker that our offense needs badly. Giants won not because of two muffed punts. They won because of Eli, their receivers and their passing game. Thats how they beat NE too. Giants beat us and NE the exact same way and the reason why we and NE lost was exactly the same too...no speed receiver on the outside. Period.

Anyone who thinks otherwise must have been watching a different game.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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What a way to waste a weekend typing all that non-sense Dan. In the offseason no less.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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What a way to waste a weekend typing all that non-sense Dan. In the offseason no less.
With my GF working and me off, im bored as hell so this at least gives me something to do and wastes time until free agency starts.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Thats bullcrap and you know it. Add a damn good receiver and those two muffed punts never happens because we would never have been in that situation to begin with. I dont blame Williams at all. When you have no ******* offense and are playcalling like a bunch of chickenshits, eventually, you lose. Just a matter of time. And the reason why the playcalling blew chunks pretty much the entire season was because there's no playmaking receiver period.

And as much as I want Wallace, I'll take a Garcon, Colston and to a lesser extend Jackson because then at least, that guy will push Crabtree and be a playmaker that our offense needs badly. Giants won not because of two muffed punts. They won because of Eli, their receivers and their passing game. Thats how they beat NE too. Giants beat us and NE the exact same way and the reason why we and NE lost was exactly the same too...no speed receiver on the outside. Period.

Anyone who thinks otherwise must have been watching a different game.
So when you have a good receiver the opponent will never punt thats interesting. I dont blame Williams on the fumble but i blame him for the muff because that was just stupid. Giving those 2 opportunities to the Giants make us lose the game not because of their passing game. Subtract those two plays'and we would have won. Giving the Giants the ball when you have had it yourself with them only having to go 30 yards is giving away at least 6 points and with Eli you can say 10. Thats what i saw watching the game because even without the pass offense we put 17 points on the board and without the muffed punt we would have had possession of the bal with leading 4 point and the abbility to take some time of the clock. Instead we go 3 point behind and that is where you lose the game.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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So when you have a good receiver the opponent will never punt thats interesting. I dont blame Williams on the fumble but i blame him for the muff because that was just stupid. Giving those 2 opportunities to the Giants make us lose the game not because of their passing game. Subtract those two plays'and we would have won. Giving the Giants the ball when you have had it yourself with them only having to go 30 yards is giving away at least 6 points and with Eli you can say 10. Thats what i saw watching the game because even without the pass offense we put 17 points on the board and without the muffed punt we would have had possession of the bal with leading 4 point and the abbility to take some time of the clock. Instead we go 3 point behind and that is where you lose the game.
17 points without any type of passing game. Subtract Davis and hell, we get blown out by the Saints. Giants game wise, if we would have had a better offense, we would have been more aggressive in the 4th quarter instead of playing consertative which I hate more than you know. If we actually had legitimate weapons at WR, chances are we score more than 17 points and possibly blow out the Giants to where the muffed punts never happen.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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WIthout an passing game because of the top 5 receivers we did go in the season 3 where injured or cut because they sucked. Even wide open Brett Swain wouldn't do much harm. Besides that also your second and third TE where down. Substract three receivers and two tight ends from whatever team and they will get in to trouble in the conference championship. With Morgan opposite Crabtree and Walker as the second TE which mean Williams or Ginn can opperate the slot and Ginn as the returner it would be a whole different passing game then without those guys.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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And i prefer a conservative offense abbove the risky play that Giants have because its way more consistent. Thats the way Harbaugh worked at Stanford with an arguably much better QB in Luck and thats the way he approach the game so i prefer us to retain our guys and add some extra receivers in the draft and sign an veteran WR so when someone go down we keep weapons and don't have to go with the Swains of this world because almost any drafted receiver can do more than him.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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This thread has proven to me that teams can only improve at WR by adding them via FA. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to add a player like Mike Wallace via the draft. There is simply ZERO empirical evidence that a player with his skill set can be found in the 3rd round.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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I'm opening up nominations for the new name of this thread:

the early entrees are:

A) The Mike Wallace and Jesus Christ have never been seen at the same time ... so coincidence or evidence? thread

B) The how many posts can Dan make that state the exact ******* same thing? thread

C) Apparently, you can trade into the second half of the first round without giving up anything of good value because "don't worry, I got this -Dan" thread

Any other suggestions?
D) The don't quote Dan thread. Out of sight, out of mind.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Outstanding posts by everyone this off season but the Wallace thing is getting old. Despite this fact I will comment on it...lol

We have about 23 million under the cap right now, hopefully we can get Spencer's 3 mill off to bring our cap space to 26 mill. It should cost us about 8 million against the cap for Alex and another 6 million to sign our draft picks so that leaves us with about 12 million.

I think signing Wallace and giving him 10 of that 12 mill would be a mistake. That leaves us only 2 mill to sign an additional FA like Carlos Rodgers or Morgan. We can stretch the field sufficiently by drafting Hill or signing Meachem(or both!). Maybe we even get lucky and Kendall Wright slips down to us(not likely I know but the 4.6 40 might make this possible if he doesn't improve this at his pro day). The 30th pick in the draft will only command 1.5-2.5 mill against the cap. Is Wallace 8 million dollars better than Hill?

I say sign Meachem for around 4 million if possible and target Hill or Wright at #30. Even their salaries combined would only be about 6 million. That leaves us 4 million for a legitimate chance to sign Carlos Rodgers as well as giving us a talented rookie wideout that we can sign to a bargain priced 5 year deal.

Also, I don't know why it is believed that Fleener would be gone as early as #20, I haven't heard anybody else project him to go before 40. if he slips to #45 or 50 I wouldn't be opposed to trading up a FEW spots to get him at a low cost but even if you only give up a 4th, that 4th could have been a guy like Robert Turbin(who I love, please cut Anthony Dixon!! If I see him stumble and fall into another offensive lineman for no gain I may throw up).
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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I vote b Borat.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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WIN NOW OR ELSE. Wallace2012.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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You guys are funny. Okay, have it your way but when we lose again next year for the same ******* reason, then maybe you guys will get your heads out of your ass, wipe the **** off your face and open your eyes. Until then, I'll just sit down and watch what the 49ers do which as usual will be nothing.

And to physlac, a WR can be found in the draft but not one who's going to automaticlly become our number one receiver. Its amazing, all these so called true 49er fans here cant be true fans because if they were, they would realize that the only way to get back to the SB and win it is what we had in Montana/Rice and Young/Rice. Sadly, im the only one who realizes that but whatever. To each his/her own. Enjoy FA. Hope you guys get the WR you want. See ya.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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WIN NOW OR ELSE. Wallace2012.
Right now, I wish Madden would put up their cover athlete before FA begins. That way, we know who not to target. Or maybe it does end up being Wallace...
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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We lost to the Giants because we lost the turnover battle, period, end of discussion. If Williams doesn't fumble, we're heading to the Super Bowl with those same medicore WRs and their one catch for 3 yards stat line.

Nice to see your still living in the past Dan. Montana/Rice are history. You can't repeat that. Takes more than a good QB/WR combo to win a Super Bowl. If that was the case, we would have won with Garcia/Owens. I love how fans question other fans "fan-dom" when they disagree on the direction a team should take. The saying goes there's more than one way to skin a cat. And there's more than one way to get to and win a Super Bowl. But I guess we're not true Niner fans because we actually believe in nonsense like building through the draft, and taking a wait and see approach to free agency. And then we have the audacity to show faith in a GM/HC who put us back on the map and took us to all the way to the NFCCG. Shame on us! Stay classy Dan, stay classy......see ya around.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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And to physlac, a WR can be found in the draft but not one who's going to automaticlly become our number one receiver.
Mike Wallace was the Steelers number 1 WR right out of the gate.

Don't pretend like it doesn't happen.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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You guys are funny. Okay, have it your way but when we lose again next year for the same ******* reason, then maybe you guys will get your heads out of your ass, wipe the **** off your face and open your eyes. Until then, I'll just sit down and watch what the 49ers do which as usual will be nothing.

And to physlac, a WR can be found in the draft but not one who's going to automaticlly become our number one receiver. Its amazing, all these so called true 49er fans here cant be true fans because if they were, they would realize that the only way to get back to the SB and win it is what we had in Montana/Rice and Young/Rice. Sadly, im the only one who realizes that but whatever. To each his/her own. Enjoy FA. Hope you guys get the WR you want. See ya.

I don't understand why your always so upset and negative. Your team nearly made it to the SB without an off-season and a brand new head coach, and a killer draft class last year. What reasons do you have to be killing your team before Free Agency even starts after the way you guys handled the Head Coach vacancy, draft, and Free Agency last year?


I can understand voicing your opinion on what you'd prefer to have happen, but you trash your team as if the last 12 months haven't been the blueprint for how to run a franchise.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why your always so upset and negative. Your team nearly made it to the SB without an off-season and a brand new head coach, and a killer draft class last year. What reasons do you have to be killing your team before Free Agency even starts after the way you guys handled the Head Coach vacancy, draft, and Free Agency last year?


I can understand voicing your opinion on what you'd prefer to have happen, but you trash your team as if the last 12 months haven't been the blueprint for how to run a franchise.
This is a yearly event for Dan
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