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Old 03-14-2012, 08:57 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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Originally Posted by Justone2 View Post
But as of now we only have Crabtree, Moss and Williams i believe as WR. So i dont think we need to break the bank for one but adding another receiver via FA isn't a bad thing.
Agree. My hope (since Wallace isn't very likely) is that they go young. I'm against Lloyd. I would prefer drafting 3 WRs than signing Lloyd. With that said, I hope to see Manningham + 2 draft picks.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
I said that the receivers the 49ers have signed or are going after are either washed up or not worth the time, money and the roster spot.

Moss - washed up. done.
Lloyd - washed up. done.
Schillens - injury prone. in four years, doesnt even have 1000 yards receiveing combined. sucks. done. next.
Manningham - only guy who's not washed up. is solid at best but thats probably pushing it. Not a number one WR. Basically, just another filler or number two guy. We already have that..his name is Crabtree.

We didnt go after Garcon or Jackson and you can tell because they were signed within an hour or so after FA started. They already knew where they were going a while ago. And Vincent Jackson actually got less than what I thought the Bucs would give him but either way, he's not worth it.

Calvin Johnson is in my opinion the BEST WR in the league so cant argue that. Wallace would probably want $10-12m a year. More than Garcon who got just over $8m a year but less than Jackson. Wallace was a 49ers fan and actually has interest in playing for us. Jackson went for the money period. He doesnt care who gave him the money. He was going to whoever paid him the most. Garcon probably did the same. And for Wallace, I could make him an offer and he either signs and accepts or he doesnt. Personally, I think that he would accept $10m a year because he has no actual say in where he goes since he's an RFA. He's not free to go to teams....teams have to go to him.

And since he was a 49ers fan and his favorite player was Young, you know that he'll be motivated to at the very least be the third best WR in 49ers history. He would also have pushed Crabtree which is something that neither Moss or Lloyd will or care to do. Them three are all divas and for someone like you who says that you dont want diva receivers, you now have two and possibly three. Seriously, can you really say that your prefer Moss and Lloyd over Wallace? No ******* way!!! Hell, I would have been happy with Garcon and possibly Fleener. Either way, still FAR BETTER than Moss and most likely Lloyd.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Just throwing out hypotheticals for comparison purposes...


Michael Crabtree | Michael Crabtree
Braylon Edwards | Randy Moss
Joshua Morgan | Mario Manningham
Kyle Williams | Kyle Williams
Ted Ginn | Joe Adams
Brett Swain | Stephen Hill


Just sayin'
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Well i say we got better than but thats mostly because of the last one:P
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I hope this isn't the beginning of a trend for the 49ers. We tried flying Plaxico Burress here last year and then tried getting Braylon Edwards. I'm more so a fan of finding most of your cornerstone players through the draft like Green Bay does. Big name free agent receivers don't work out a lot of the time, and it seems like we are taking a look at every one that is past their prime.
From the moves Baalke is making, it doesn't look like a major trend. These contracts are easy to get off the books. Baalke could be gunning for developmental prospects via the draft and is just using the FA period to boost depth with players who can be cut if they lose their job to a draft pick.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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I can tell you with certainty (being from Pittsburgh) that the common perception is that Antonio Brown has improved faster because Wallace is too much of a "diva."

With that said...

I'm not against Wallace. I'm against signing Wallace and starting Colin Kaepernick. Because if Wallace gets $10 Million + the 49ers won't have any money to sign a QB.
If it wasnt for Wallace spreading out the defense, Brown would be an after thought and if Wallace leaves this year, you'll see that in 2012.

I never said to sign Wallace and start Kaepernick. I said that signing Wallace to a five year deal would be good now for Smith and he would still be here and still young when Kaepernick takes over. And no point in signing Wallace now. 49ers rather have a bunch of old washed up crappers in Moss and Lloyd, thats obviously up to them.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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You are getting crazier by the minute Dan. Just chill and wait and see what will happen. At the end of FA you can go nuts if this was all we did but for know just have some faith in those two. They simply have there value on each player they want to sign/resign and if the guy want more they simple pull away. They showed it last year with Baas en this year with Snyder and i guess Morgan. That way you keep control of your cap-space and will get better in the long term. Mike Wallace would add something to the team i agree with that but giving up a first and a big contract is something that is a big decision. For now we kept our whole startin defense and will only lose some reserves like Costanzo(shame but is basically only a special teams gu) and i can see Larry Grant go because of the maybe too low tender. On offense we can really use a RG but if they feel Kilgore is ready he deserves at least an chance. Only WR can use some help but i am sure Baalke sees this too looking at the guys scheduled.
I understand having value on a player but come on. Moss? Lloyd? Are you kidding me? How are they of any value? They're one year stopgaps at best and I wouldnt be surprised if either or both dont make it through the entire season. For everyone here who likes to build through the draft for the present and future, I would think that the same mindset would apply to FA but apparently not because im the only 49ers fan here who doesnt like the moves they've made and if it bites them in the ass, im going to laugh my ass off because instead of making one major move, they're trying to make a bunch of cheap minor ones and thats not going to get the job done.

I would have let Morgan leave too but letting Snyder leave and possibly replacing him with Leonard Davis isnt value....its a downgrade. The way you keep control of your cap space is by letting old guys go before they decline and by adding young players who can actually improve because they have skill, potential and upside. Players like Moss and Lloyd arent going to improve. They'll either stay as is or decline even more. I never said that signing Wallace to a long term contract and giving up the 30th overall draft pick wasnt huge. It is. Its a risk, but so is signing Moss, so is possibly signing Lloyd and Davis. The difference is that there's a far better chance of Wallace succeeding and earning that contract then there is of those three making it through an entire season healthy or without bitching about not getting the ball enough.

They should have kept Costanzo. $1m for him per season is a lot? You've got to be kidding me. Him, Spillman and Gooden were damn good on ST and he's only 27, keeping him is value and actually worth something. Thats the difference. RG is now a need and if we sign Davis, thats a downgrade and if we bring back Rachal, thats probably an even bigger downgrade. As for WR, if we sign Lloyd, we'll still need another future receiver to match up with Crabtree.

Wallace would have been a short term and long term decision. Moss and if we sign Lloyd are basically one year deals. I wanted a young top tier receiver who could come in, be our number one guy, spread out the defense, push Crabtree and be there in the future for Kaepernick when he replaces Smith.

But whatever. Just have to wait and see how the season goes.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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Just throwing out hypotheticals for comparison purposes...


Michael Crabtree | Michael Crabtree
Braylon Edwards | Randy Moss
Joshua Morgan | Mario Manningham
Kyle Williams | Kyle Williams
Ted Ginn | Joe Adams
Brett Swain | Stephen Hill


Just sayin'
This would seriously be amazing.

You forgot Joe Hastings btw........
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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I understand having value on a player but come on. Moss? Lloyd? Are you kidding me? How are they of any value? They're one year stopgaps at best and I wouldnt be surprised if either or both dont make it through the entire season. For everyone here who likes to build through the draft for the present and future, I would think that the same mindset would apply to FA but apparently not because im the only 49ers fan here who doesnt like the moves they've made and if it bites them in the ass, im going to laugh my ass off because instead of making one major move, they're trying to make a bunch of cheap minor ones and thats not going to get the job done.
You can see that buying the most expensive free agents on the market always works out because the Redskins have won three straight superbowls on the back of signing Albert Haynesworth and DeAngelo Hall.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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You can see that buying the most expensive free agents on the market always works out because the Redskins have won three straight superbowls on the back of signing Albert Haynesworth and DeAngelo Hall.
Come on man. You're comparing Haynesworth and Hall's character to that of Wallace? And everyone keeps saying draft this and draft that but thats 50/50 at best just like FA. Either way is a risk and a gamble. Only difference is that a FA gets the money based on what they already did and hope they continue where as a rookie gets paid for what he could do.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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I'm glad we aren't overspending for some of these inflated WRS. I would actually like to see us bring in Eddie Royal, I always liked him, he can get open and contribute on special teams.

Remember guys, we still have the freakin' draft.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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For everyone here who likes to build through the draft for the present and future, I would think that the same mindset would apply to FA but apparently not because im the only 49ers fan here who doesnt like the moves they've made and if it bites them in the ass, im going to laugh my ass off because instead of making one major move, they're trying to make a bunch of cheap minor ones and thats not going to get the job done.
The cheap, minor moves got the job done last year. Whitner, Rodgers, Grant, Costanzo and Goodwin were huge contributors, both on the field and in the locker room.

I would rather roll the dice on a few decent free agents hoping that one puts it together than expecting one huge FA to maintain production in a different system.

That's just my opinion though.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:18 AM    (permalink
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I'm glad we aren't overspending for some of these inflated WRS. I would actually like to see us bring in Eddie Royal, I always liked him, he can get open and contribute on special teams.

Remember guys, we still have the freakin' draft.
Most of these receivers aren't going to live up to the deals they sign. Happens all the time.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:33 AM    (permalink
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They are doing the EXACT same thing as last year. Look how that FA crop turned out. I didn't see a reason to be angry...

The fact that they were able to re-sign Goldson, Brooks, AND Rogers is pretty amazing; no one saw that coming.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:06 AM    (permalink
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I understand having value on a player but come on. Moss? Lloyd? Are you kidding me? How are they of any value? They're one year stopgaps at best and I wouldnt be surprised if either or both dont make it through the entire season. For everyone here who likes to build through the draft for the present and future, I would think that the same mindset would apply to FA but apparently not because im the only 49ers fan here who doesnt like the moves they've made and if it bites them in the ass, im going to laugh my ass off because instead of making one major move, they're trying to make a bunch of cheap minor ones and thats not going to get the job done.

I would have let Morgan leave too but letting Snyder leave and possibly replacing him with Leonard Davis isnt value....its a downgrade. The way you keep control of your cap space is by letting old guys go before they decline and by adding young players who can actually improve because they have skill, potential and upside. Players like Moss and Lloyd arent going to improve. They'll either stay as is or decline even more. I never said that signing Wallace to a long term contract and giving up the 30th overall draft pick wasnt huge. It is. Its a risk, but so is signing Moss, so is possibly signing Lloyd and Davis. The difference is that there's a far better chance of Wallace succeeding and earning that contract then there is of those three making it through an entire season healthy or without bitching about not getting the ball enough.

They should have kept Costanzo. $1m for him per season is a lot? You've got to be kidding me. Him, Spillman and Gooden were damn good on ST and he's only 27, keeping him is value and actually worth something. Thats the difference. RG is now a need and if we sign Davis, thats a downgrade and if we bring back Rachal, thats probably an even bigger downgrade. As for WR, if we sign Lloyd, we'll still need another future receiver to match up with Crabtree.

Wallace would have been a short term and long term decision. Moss and if we sign Lloyd are basically one year deals. I wanted a young top tier receiver who could come in, be our number one guy, spread out the defense, push Crabtree and be there in the future for Kaepernick when he replaces Smith.

But whatever. Just have to wait and see how the season goes.
Remember way back to last season if you can for a moment Dan. The combo of Harbaugh and Baalke were in charge of the Free Agency period and the draft for the 1st time. We finished 13-3 and made it to the NFC championship game. Let that sink in for a minute. So let's give these guys the benefit of the doubt that they might actually know just what in the hell they are doing. Unless you'd prefer Singletary or Nolan or any of our other past HC's back to help make these decisions...
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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What do you think Wallace wants???

How do you suggest the 49ers pay him???
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He will play for SF for free. I mean, he's got all that money from curing cancer and I think he still gets a residual allowance for dying for all our sins.
Wow, not even a single comment about this post? Maybe it's just me that thinks the "Jesus" Wallace jokes are funny. Damn. I got a million of them too.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Shawntae Spencer was released. No surprise there.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Just because the cheap moves worked last off-season doesnt mean thats its going to work again. And we signed FB Rock Cartwright to a one year deal.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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For people who think that signing FA WR's never works but drafting WR's does, I did some research for the 49ers since the 2004 NFL Draft.

2004
1 / 31 - Rashaun Woods
3 / 77 - Derrick Hamilton

2005
5 / 174 - Rasheed Marshall
7 / 223 - Marcus Maxwell

2006
3 / 84 - Brandon Williams

2007
3 / 76 - Jason Hill

2008
6 / 174 - Josh Morgan

2009
1 / 10 - Michael Crabtree

2010
6 / 206 - Kyle Williams

2011
6 / 182 - Ronald Johnson

Out of the 10 receivers we drafted, I would say that Morgan was the best considering where he was drafted. Crabtree has been average at best while Williams is still developing and I hope he doesnt get cut. Basically, 7/10 of the WR's we drafted sucked and blew chunks. First round receivers were 50/50. A huge bust in Woods and an average guy in Crabtree even though Crabs can still go either way. When you add in the drafts overall, the percentage is horrible so while everyone says that FA WR's never work, they rarely do in the draft either so like I said, every move is a 50/50 shot. It either works or it doesnt. There isnt any in-between.

I know people love the Draft and everything but people need to stop overrating it because the percentages of actually being successful isnt as good as you think it is, at least not for us. The only reason we even have the team that we have is because of 2007, 2010 and 2011 drafts but the others were bad to horrible.

And in terms of contracts, until last year's draft that started the rookie wage scale, rookies were getting overpaid in the first round more than any high priced FA. The difference is that with FA's, you're overpaying them for what they did and hope will continue doing.

Draft wise, you're paying guys with the hopes that they do good. And quite honestly, every player wants to get paid and when you consider the fact that their career could end on any given play, I dont blame any of them for wanting to get paid.

With all that said, I understand everyone's hesitation to overspend in FA but dont act like the Draft is 100% or something because like FA, its 50/50 at best.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Just because the cheap moves worked last off-season doesnt mean thats its going to work again. And we signed FB Rock Cartwright to a one year deal.
We have all the starters back from a team that went 13-3 and made it to the NFC championship game last year. That's important. Be a Redskins fan if you want to win the Free Agency championship every year. How many teams have turned into a dynasty through free agency? Look at Washington every year and Philadelphia last year. How many "experts" said the Eagles were the Super Bowl favorites after Free Agency last year?
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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@ Dan

Don't forget that from the 3 drafts our roster mostly consists of 2 of them are Baalke's. The guy knows how to evaluate talent and while its still early because we have to see how those players are in a few years its a pretty good sign. Thats why most here are more confident in the draft then when you have some piece of **** as GM. Besides that Harbaugh has a pretty good eye for talent too so its just good to have 2 competent guys running the Franchise with a great Contract guy for the financial stuff.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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We have all the starters back from a team that went 13-3 and made it to the NFC championship game last year. That's important. Be a Redskins fan if you want to win the Free Agency championship every year. How many teams have turned into a dynasty through free agency? Look at Washington every year and Philadelphia last year. How many "experts" said the Eagles were the Super Bowl favorites after Free Agency last year?
Building through the draft is great but takes a lot of time and is good when you're rebuilding. We're not a rebuilding team and everyone here acts like I wanted every FA this year...I didnt. I only wanted one top tier guy and thats it. After that guy, a second tier guy at CB to replace Rogers. And then, done until the draft.

Eagles failed because the chemistry wasnt there and they made their OL coach or whatever the DC which didnt help until December or so. That coordinator move was the main reason they failed. Then, the chemistry. Seriously, when you have the best cover corner in the league in Asomugha and he's playing a zone defense when he should be playing man defense, cant blame the players for sucking if they're not being use to the best of their strengths. Philly did the opposite.

No thanks to Redskins. I have my second and third favorite teams I cheer for after SF and neither are the Redskins or Eagles.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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@ Dan

Don't forget that from the 3 drafts our roster mostly consists of 2 of them are Baalke's. The guy knows how to evaluate talent and while its still early because we have to see how those players are in a few years its a pretty good sign. Thats why most here are more confident in the draft then when you have some piece of **** as GM. Besides that Harbaugh has a pretty good eye for talent too so its just good to have 2 competent guys running the Franchise with a great Contract guy for the financial stuff.
True but I dont like the fact that they think going cheap is going to work two years in a row. Especially considering the cheap guys they signed (Moss and Cox). Going "cheap" year after year will eventually have the same affect as going after the top tier guys year after year.

And everyone here keeps making it out like I wanted them to go nuts in FA. For the first time in years, I only wanted ONE top tier guy and one second tier guy. How is that bad? Especially when the top tier guy is a huge upgrade and adds the element the offense needs most while the second tier guy would have replaced Rogers at a younger, cheaper and just as good price?

Whats so bad about that?
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Its more the way you act like the only way to go is your way which simply isn't the only way. Offcourse a top tier WR would be a great addition but when those guys are wanting too much money or you have to give up your first people get hesitant. Thats why you get people going against you because you keep telling the only way to succes would be to sign Wallace and Allen and then trade up for Fleener. Its good to have an opinion but you have to respect that everyone here has an opinion and not going to say that they aren't real Niners because they don't see it the way you do.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I'm a Mike Wallace fan and would have gladly given up the 30th pick for him Dan. I'm not gonna ***** and moan about it if they don't get him though. If you want to question some of the FA and draft moves that our past HC's and GM's have made I can understand that. All I'm saying is that give Baalke and Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt for now. Stop screaming the sky is falling over and over. Or you can keep screaming it, I shouldn't tell you what to do. Lol. It just seems a little silly to me. I'm excited about the present and the future of our organization with the hands that it is in now.
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