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Old 03-16-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
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Here is the contract Manning is looking for from PFT:
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Mike Klis of the Denver Post has now updated his report and said that what Manning is actually seeking is a contract like the one he signed last year with the Colts, which was for five years and $90 million, with a whopping $61.8 million in the first two years.
A ton of money for the first two years.
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-old-contract/

If Manning is looking for that contract and we give it to him, I'll be shocked. But im sure it would be cool with everyone here since they only view Wallace as a HUGE risk and gamble as opposed to Manning who's had four neck surgeries. Yep yep....this off-season gets better and better.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-old-contract/

If Manning is looking for that contract and we give it to him, I'll be shocked. But im sure it would be cool with everyone here since they only view Wallace as a HUGE risk and gamble as opposed to Manning who's had four neck surgeries. Yep yep....this off-season gets better and better.
This is true. I mean, even if Wallace gets injured or hell, even if he dies, he can be resurrected in 3 days.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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This is true. I mean, even if Wallace gets injured or hell, even if he dies, he can be resurrected in 3 days.
Actually, since he's God, he cant die. He cant even be tackled.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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Actually, since he's God, he cant die. He cant even be tackled.
Don't be silly, Patrick Willis is God. Wallace is Jesus.


And Harbaugh is Moses.


Oh, and Chilo is like Pestilence or something.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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As much as I said several months ago (check the thread history) that I thought the Niners should go after Manning WHEN he became a FA, I don't think they have a huge chance to sign him NOR do I believe they are doing more than merely checking in with him as a leveraging point to get Alex's deal done on their offered terms. However, if Alex is wanting a 5 year deal and won't take a 2-3 year deal, then for a few million more (especially with the salary cap expected to increase the next two years) per year, I'd prefer Manning, so long as he and Harbaugh could agree how to best work together. I'm not getting my hopes up for Manning. I think he ends up in Denver.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-old-contract/

If Manning is looking for that contract and we give it to him, I'll be shocked. But im sure it would be cool with everyone here since they only view Wallace as a HUGE risk and gamble as opposed to Manning who's had four neck surgeries. Yep yep....this off-season gets better and better.
Maybe because receivers don't carry their teams to Lombardi trophies.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I agree with you in regards to QB and while Smith will never ever be a Montana/Young type, I do think that he can be as good or better than Garcia but like Garcia, he needs a top tier WR to help him get there. He's never going to improve by having average or old washed up receivers around him. Look at McNabb in his Eagles career. His best season of his career period was in 2004 with Owens. You really think that NOT having a top tier WR doesnt help the QB get better? As for now, look at the Patriots, they have Welker but they dont have that dominant outside receiver like they did with Moss years ago and you dont think that hurts Brady? While you need a good QB, the QB needs a top tier WR so he can be good and get better. I never said to build around a WR but having a top tier like Wallace can only help Smith get better. Moss and these other guys aint helping him and you know it. They might he make things worse for him if they act up. A guy like Wallace is not only for the present and Smith but also for the future and Kaepernick.

As for our WR core now, its so far just Moss, Crabtree and Williams. Schillens isnt going to help us whatsoever. Lloyd is like Moss, a one year stopgap who could start acting up at any time. Manningham would be the next best option but I dont see him signing with us. Adding a Wallace would have strengthen our entire WR core because it lowers Crabtree and Williams on the depth chart from number one and two to two and three which makes those spots stronger. But thats just how I see it.

Crabtree is a possession WR. Morgan wasnt bad but he's not a number one WR. He's another number two. No defense is fearing or gameplanning around these guys and you know it. Williams is best suited for the slot. Ginn is a returner period as he cant catch worth a damn which makes his speed as a WR useless. Swain/Hastings are well crap.

If Moss works out, great but if he doesnt, will anyone here really be surprised? I wont be. In fact, im expecting that to happen. Just a matter of time. And in a year from now, we'll be in the same exact position but everyone is a year older and we'll still be looking for a top tier number one WR. Either way, we'll have to wait and see what happens.
Well Garcia was just good because he was good. He just had to be in the right system with a fairly talented team. When he went to Philadelphia and filled in for Donovan McNabb he had success, and when he went to Tampa Bay he had success too. Owens didn't make Garcia necessarily, just padded his statistics.

And McNabb was a good quarterback before Owens got there. Again, his stats were just padded. That offense for the Eagles was still very good before and after he left. Owens helped sure, but they didn't even need him to get to the Super Bowl seeing as how he missed the entire playoffs.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Well Garcia was just good because he was good. He just had to be in the right system with a fairly talented team. When he went to Philadelphia and filled in for Donovan McNabb he had success, and when he went to Tampa Bay he had success too. Owens didn't make Garcia necessarily, just padded his statistics.

And McNabb was a good quarterback before Owens got there. Again, his stats were just padded. That offense for the Eagles was still very good before and after he left. Owens helped sure, but they didn't even need him to get to the Super Bowl seeing as how he missed the entire playoffs.
Never said McNabb wasnt good. He was good but became great once T.O. was there and after he left, he went back to good. Its no coincidence that McNabb had the best season if his career when he had an elite WR.

Subtract Owens from the Eagles in 2004 and them even getting to the SB via HFA is debatable. Plus, it wasnt Owens who choked in the SB, it was McNabb, Reid and his horrible play-calling.

Moving on though....Garcia sucked when he was in CLE because he had no one there. Is that a coincidence too?

Bottom line is that while you need a damn good QB, you also need a damn good WR too. Both go together. Look at the QB's who have won the SB the last several years. Manning, Roethlisberger, Manning, Rodgers and Brees. All elite QB's who all had good to great or elite WR's.

Not going to win if you dont have BOTH. I just think that Smith could be better than Garcia because he's finally with an offensive based HC and did good in 2011. Add a premiere WR and he should improve.

Think about this - by the time Kaepernick starts, do you really think he'll succeed if he doesnt have a top tier WR with him? I dont, not at all.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Clearly, they are just doing this to affect Alex Smith's contract negotiations.

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Old 03-16-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Never said McNabb wasnt good. He was good but became great once T.O. was there and after he left, he went back to good. Its no coincidence that McNabb had the best season if his career when he had an elite WR.

Subtract Owens from the Eagles in 2004 and them even getting to the SB via HFA is debatable. Plus, it wasnt Owens who choked in the SB, it was McNabb, Reid and his horrible play-calling.

Moving on though....Garcia sucked when he was in CLE because he had no one there. Is that a coincidence too?

Bottom line is that while you need a damn good QB, you also need a damn good WR too. Both go together. Look at the QB's who have won the SB the last several years. Manning, Roethlisberger, Manning, Rodgers and Brees. All elite QB's who all had good to great or elite WR's.

Not going to win if you dont have BOTH. I just think that Smith could be better than Garcia because he's finally with an offensive based HC and did good in 2011. Add a premiere WR and he should improve.

Think about this - by the time Kaepernick starts, do you really think he'll succeed if he doesnt have a top tier WR with him? I dont, not at all.
Yes, padding stats I guess can make you seem great. But the decision making and arm for McNabb was the same. He was already one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL before Owen's arrival. The Eagles made the Super Bowl without Owens. They won more more game than the previous couple of seasons when they went 12-4 each time. I guess Owens got them one more win, but they were in the same spot essentially all three years. First round bye at home.

Receivers weren't the problem more so than the terrible protection in Cleveland. Same with Detroit. And he was out of a WC system with the Browns. No coincidences here. Just the facts.

Having a megastar receiver is just the icing on the cake. You don't go for that guy though until you have an established starter there. So it's pointless throwing huge money at one guy, because they aren't going to cure the inaccurate throws and poor reads combined with bad instincts. Randy Moss didn't turn Kerry Collins into an all-pro. And he won't do the same for Alex Smith.

Tom Brady won a Super Bowl with David Givens and Deion Branch. None were megastar receivers. So yes you can win without a flashy dude. 49ers won with Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon twice for crying out loud. Neither were all-time greats.

Superstar receivers are probably the most overrated commodity in the NFL.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Smith should have been signed a week ago at the very least. As for Manning, I think that they're seriously considering signing Manning because why sign Moss if they werent? Moss could be a huge problem for Smith but Manning will control his ass. Just think that there's a lot more to all this crap than we know. Either way, they need to get Manning or Smith signed already and stop wasting time for no apparent reason.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Manning IS the reason why Smith hasn't signed yet. They knew they were going to check out Manning, so they're delaying the Smith signing.

Plus, Smith and Manning have the same agent.

And you guys seriously don't think they would go to watch Manning throw and be serious contenders, just to help with the Smith negotiations??? SMH....
I'm with Brent.
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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That reminds me, Josh Johnson could find himself with an opportunity here if things don't work out with Alex.

When it's all said and done I'm guessing Alex signs his deal and Peyton Manning probably goes to Tennessee.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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That reminds me, Josh Johnson could find himself with an opportunity here if things don't work out with Alex.
That would blow.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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That would blow.
There is always Nate Davis...
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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One thing is for sure, the rest of the league is scared crapless of us getting Manning. Just ask a fan of another team, look at their faces...they've almost given up already.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:03 AM    (permalink
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Here's a scenario thats even worse -

Manning goes to DEN
Flynn goes to MIA
Smith goes to SEA
and we trade for Tebow!!!

Dont see that happening but the possibility is there. And in regards to Smith, I would have just signed Orton to replace him for less money and move on.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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As much as I said several months ago (check the thread history) that I thought the Niners should go after Manning WHEN he became a FA, I don't think they have a huge chance to sign him NOR do I believe they are doing more than merely checking in with him as a leveraging point to get Alex's deal done on their offered terms. However, if Alex is wanting a 5 year deal and won't take a 2-3 year deal, then for a few million more (especially with the salary cap expected to increase the next two years) per year, I'd prefer Manning, so long as he and Harbaugh could agree how to best work together. I'm not getting my hopes up for Manning. I think he ends up in Denver.
BINGO! I dont truly believe they are interested in signing Manning, but merely exploring all options available to them. I mean Manning and Alex have the same agent. Condon works for Alex so anytime Alex wants to get the deal done, it will get done. Most fans seem to think its Condon who's seeking more money for Alex but if Alex wants to say look, I'll sign the intial offer, he could. Looks like one Condon client, helping another.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
BINGO! I dont truly believe they are interested in signing Manning, but merely exploring all options available to them. I mean Manning and Alex have the same agent. Condon works for Alex so anytime Alex wants to get the deal done, it will get done. Most fans seem to think its Condon who's seeking more money for Alex but if Alex wants to say look, I'll sign the intial offer, he could. Looks like one Condon client, helping another.
I think that the 49ers ARE interested in signing Manning. Why sign Moss if they werent? If Moss acts up, Manning will put him in his place. Smith would take it and not say a word and if you're Smith, would you even want to deal with that? I wouldnt. I think that there's more to this than any of us know because quite honestly, none of it makes any sense whatsoever. As for Manning, thats way too much money but personally, Baalke/Harbaugh should have pulled the offer to Smith Monday night and gone after Orton. Guaranteed the starting QB spot for half the money equals win win.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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I think that not signing with Smith is coming from two sides and the Niners interest was already there but just like most times they are really good in not showing there hand and overplaying it. With the timing they came out with it they forced the Cards to keep Kolb because they got a big competitor in the same conference.

And really i would prefer Smith over Orton. Smith has still some growth in him and its not that he really had much help from his receivers last season.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Cardinals should have released Kolb either way. He sucks and is concussion prone.

I prefer Smith over Orton too but looking at the deal he signed with DAL, you know that he would love the chance to be a starter and look at 2009 and 2010 in DEN with Brandon Marshall and then Brandon Lloyd. I just think that if Smith was going to play this game, I personally would have signed Orton Tuesday evening and say goodbye to Smith. Allows the Kapernick plan to stay intact, cheaper than Smith and would be happy just to be the starter.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Unless they where already working on the Manning-plan where Alex Smith is the primary back-up plan. Rumours are that Manning asked Condon to contact the Niners because he would like to play there and its simply his biggest opportunity to finish strong with some rings. Adding Manning to the D, ST and running game we already have and Vernon and Delanie as TE's(both great receivers for the position) and i think Manning would make Crabtree better since he can throw in tighter windows. I have a feeling that as soon as Manning makes his decision either he will go to the Niners or Smith signs as fast as he can with the Niners.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Orton sucks. Next topic.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justone2 View Post
Unless they where already working on the Manning-plan where Alex Smith is the primary back-up plan. Rumours are that Manning asked Condon to contact the Niners because he would like to play there and its simply his biggest opportunity to finish strong with some rings. Adding Manning to the D, ST and running game we already have and Vernon and Delanie as TE's(both great receivers for the position) and i think Manning would make Crabtree better since he can throw in tighter windows. I have a feeling that as soon as Manning makes his decision either he will go to the Niners or Smith signs as fast as he can with the Niners.
Well, if Manning asked Condon to contact SF, he should be wanting less money if thats the case because to me, SF is his best chance to win a SB. Texans would have been 2nd, Cardinals 3rd and Chiefs 4th. Broncos and Titans arent winning a SB with or without Manning.

Either way, this is taking too damn long.
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