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Old 12-06-2013, 09:30 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
As bad as we were craving for ANY talent at WR to step earlier in the year, if Jacobs was ready, he would have been given a shot. I just highlighted in an earlier post about how this staff does a excellent job of finding talent through the UDFA route and letting that talent see the field. I think politics is not the right wording. We jettisoned a first round draft pick after ONE season because he failed to produce. We have a second round pick in Tank who can't even get activated on gamedays because we have a former UDFA in TJE playing lights out and has solidified his spot in the rotation. No one should ever mistake this regime for playing politics when it comes to players and on-field performance.
I think the staff does a good job of acquiring talented free agents or players with a low profile, but them being able to see the field or get opportunities is another thing. The staff put Asomugha ahead of Brock for half the season until he got hurt and Brock showed why he should be starting. It was essentially a happy accident. Jacobs in particular also has another thing going against him which is being a rookie. Harbaugh and his staff have showed that they are very hesitant to put rookies on the field in a huge role. They definitely take their time easing them onto the field.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Many Seahawks fans will tell you that Browner is their 3rd, 4th, or 5th best CB.

Why consider moving on from one of the NFLs best LTs who is still young by OT standards and at a bargain price?

Quinton Dial would get reps before Carradine. Tank simply isn't ready.
Really? And here I always thought that Browner was a better cornerback than Sherman. Oh well. No biggie.

I'm not considering it. I just wouldnt be surprised, thats all.

If Tank isnt ready, they should have just put him on IR for the season and give someone who's ready a chance to play.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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If Tank isnt ready, they should have just put him on IR for the season and give someone who's ready a chance to play.
Like who? He was Inactive. Along with Garrett Celek, Jon Baldwin, Quinton Patton, Mike Iupati, Tarell Brown, and Quinton Dial.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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I think the staff does a good job of acquiring talented free agents or players with a low profile, but them being able to see the field or get opportunities is another thing. The staff put Asomugha ahead of Brock for half the season until he got hurt and Brock showed why he should be starting. It was essentially a happy accident. Jacobs in particular also has another thing going against him which is being a rookie. Harbaugh and his staff have showed that they are very hesitant to put rookies on the field in a huge role. They definitely take their time easing them onto the field.
They didn't just put Aso ahead of Brock. They battled in training camp and preseason for the nickelback spot. By all accounts, Aso won the job. Not that Brock played bad but Aso was a little better according to the beat writers who watch the battle during TC. Once Aso got hurt, Brock got his opportunity and seize it. Its not as cut and dry as saying well Brock must have been better then because he's playing better now. It wasn't like Aso was bad in those games he played. Brock just came in and got his hands on some passes and the rest is history. Some guys get into a groove at the right time and their play peaks. That's not unusual in sports.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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Like who? He was Inactive. Along with Garrett Celek, Jon Baldwin, Quinton Patton, Mike Iupati, Tarell Brown, and Quinton Dial.
They should have elevated someone from the practice squad. Personally, I think that they should elevate Netter. Give us another available OL and give him some actual game experience. If Harbaugh isnt going to play Carradine at all, I dont see the point in keeping him on the active roster. Mine as well shut him down for the rest of the season. All the others have played for us this season from that list.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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They should have elevated someone from the practice squad. Personally, I think that they should elevate Netter. Give us another available OL and give him some actual game experience. If Harbaugh isnt going to play Carradine at all, I dont see the point in keeping him on the active roster. Mine as well shut him down for the rest of the season. All the others have played for us this season from that list.
There are going to be 5 players every week whom aren't going to play. It's ALWAYS like that.

And Netter or Bykowski will likely get the call this week to be activated this week.
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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There are going to be 5 players every week whom aren't going to play. It's ALWAYS like that.

And Netter or Bykowski will likely get the call this week to be activated this week.
5 players? I thought that out of the 53 player roster that 46 players were active? Is it actually 48 players active?
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Many Seahawks fans will tell you that Browner is their 3rd, 4th, or 5th best CB.


Why consider moving on from one of the NFLs best LTs who is still young by OT standards and at a bargain price?


Quinton Dial would get reps before Carradine. Tank simply isn't ready.
While I often disagree with a lot of what Dan has to say, don't be so quick to dismiss his notion that an O-lineman will be the pick. His whole Joe Staley-Boone flip flop is a bit much but the idea of drafting someone to fill a void isn't horrible. Given the draft position of the selection, the 49ers will more likely than not look to draft depth as opposed to hitting a home run, show stopping instantaneous starter. This idea is further bolstered by their recent string of injuries.

And Dan, like I've said before - they absolutely will not draft a CB with their first three or four picks unless an absolute steal is to be had in Baalkes eyes. This team is poised to be a pre-season superbowl contender for the next two or three years barring any significant injuries. Vafy's earlier assessment regarding the positions revolving door of Culliver, Brock, Wright, and filler was correct. This team does not have the time to groom anyone. They must win the superbowl within the next few years or be relegated to becoming the past his prime Steve Young 49ers of the 95-99 era who were guaranteed to finish with AT LEAST a 10-6 record (even though they had an affinity for finishing 12-4, 13-3 ALL DAY, man i miss the way they use to absolutely dominant the regular season) but never able to win the chip.

A point phylack should have grilled you on George Foreman style is your idea of having the team go safety in back to back years as a means of replacing Whitner; completely and utterly asinine

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Old 12-07-2013, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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While I often disagree with a lot of what Dan has to say, don't be so quick to dismiss his notion that an O-lineman will be the pick. His whole Joe Staley-Boone flip flop is a bit much but the idea of drafting someone to fill a void isn't horrible. Given the draft position of the selection, the 49ers will more likely than not look to draft depth as opposed to hitting a home run, show stopping instantaneous starter. This idea is further bolstered by their recent string of injuries.

And Dan, like I've said before - they absolutely will not draft a CB with their first three or four picks unless an absolute steal is to be had in Baalkes eyes. This team is poised to be a pre-season superbowl contender for the next two or three years barring any significant injuries. Vafy's earlier assessment regarding the positions revolving door of Culliver, Brock, Wright, and filler was correct. This team does not have the time to groom anyone. They must win the superbowl within the next few years or be relegated to becoming the past his prime Steve Young 49ers of the 95-99 era who were guaranteed to finish with AT LEAST a 10-6 record (even though they had an affinity for finishing 12-4, 13-3 ALL DAY, man i miss the way they use to absolutely dominant the regular season) but never able to win the chip.

A point phylack should have grilled you on George Foreman style is your idea of having the team go safety in back to back years as a means of replacing Whitner; completely and utterly asinine
There's no FA CB in 2014 that's worth more than $4m per season, if that so where else do you go but the Draft to acquire one? I think that they should draft at least two cornerbacks because they'll have to eventually so why not now? Personally, im still pissed off that we didnt take a chance on Mathieu. In the last three drafts, Baalke and Harbaugh have missed more than hit and you would think that they would at least be even.

Veteran corners usually get overpaid and when they do, they decline. See Rogers, Carlos. Rogers, Brown and Wright arent worth re-signing for various reasons. Releasing Cooper was a mistake and another miss. Culliver is good but im not going to expect him to play great coming off a torn ACL plus his last game, he got his ass kicked in front of the world.

I dont know who the FA CB's will be in March but if Chris Cook is the best one available, enough said. Draft time. With all the draft picks we have, we should be able to find at least two cornerbacks who can develop and contribute into starters. I dont want another washed up veteran CB (Asomugha) because it didnt work. No reason to try it again. Time will come where we will need to draft a CB or two so why wait? Get some young talent in the secondary and let's see how they do as rookies and beyond. After all, its not like we wont have to draft corners eventually. Back to Culliver for a minute, if he doesnt get extended by the 2014 regular season, my guess is that Baalke takes a wait and see approach with him and if he declines or just plays bad or whatever, he'll be gone in a year from now so we would still have to draft two corners in 2015. Main difference is instead of being rookies in 2015, the corners could be going into their second season which makes a difference.

Regarding Whitner, I never said that they should go SS in the first round but i wouldnt be surprised if they do. Whitner is a hard hitting safety and good against the run but is getting older, average in coverage and will probably want more money than what SF is willing to pay him. Either way, like CB, young talent is going to be needed sooner rather than later so why wait?

Reid as a rookie has played damn good and better than expected. I would have NO problems going into 2014 with a second year starting FS, a rookie starting SS and two rookie corners competing for a starting spot opposite Brock.

We'll be a Super Bowl contender for years to come as long as we keep adding young talent and depth across the board. Right now, the biggest weakness is the secondary and with all the draft picks we have in 2014, I dont see any problem with using three of them on a SS and two CB's.

Whitner is going to have to be replaced withing the next few years anyway and I personally rather have a rookie SS matched up with Reid for hopefully the next decade. Add some young talent at CB and there you go.

After the secondary, my concern would be the offensive line. After our starters, we have Kilgore and Looney. Both average at best. Not sure if Baalke and Harbaugh see Kilgore as the starting center next year but either way, we need a backup. Would also like to see us draft an OG and OT just for depth and the future. Yeah, we have Netter, Bykowski and Marquadt but I want guys who'll be on the 53 player roster when the season starts because that means that they're good enough to be there and in case of injuries or ineffectiveness, we'll be good.

Regarding Staley, I never said that I wanted to let him go or anything. Quite honestly, I would keep him. All im saying is that I wouldnt be surprised to see Boone moved to LT and we draft a stud RG sooner rather than later.

As for WR, unless there's an A.J. Green type player who's worth trading up for, I wouldnt even bother because we're just not lucky when it comes to drafting receivers in the first round. The last good one was Rice but that was almost 30 years ago. We get better receivers in the mid rounds than we do in the first round. The only other exception would be Crabtree and if Kaepernick didnt take over last season, you have to wonder if we would be loving Crabtree as much as we all do.

Rest of the positions have at least two players if not more backing up our current starters who are high draft picks, break out studs (like Tony Jerod-Eddie) or waiting in the wings.

Depending what happens in the off-season before the Draft, I still have CB, SS and C/OL depth as my top three positions of need. And im not expecting any top tier or even mid tier signings in FA because we wont have the cap room, we need to extend our own players and because there's not really anyone who's worth taking a chance on overpaying.
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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There's no FA CB in 2014 that's worth more than $4m per season, if that so where else do you go but the Draft to acquire one? I think that they should draft at least two cornerbacks because they'll have to eventually so why not now? Personally, im still pissed off that we didnt take a chance on Mathieu. In the last three drafts, Baalke and Harbaugh have missed more than hit and you would think that they would at least be even.

We dont need an expensive CB because we dont need a starter. For now Rogers is still here and with Brock and Culliver you have a solid core. When Rogers leaves we need a guy to play the Nickle and honestly i prefer an veteran. For the hits and misses i won't even say anything because in my eyes most picks you have to hit on(first 3 rounds) they have. Only Jenkins is a big miss.

Veteran corners usually get overpaid and when they do, they decline. See Rogers, Carlos. Rogers, Brown and Wright arent worth re-signing for various reasons. Releasing Cooper was a mistake and another miss. Culliver is good but im not going to expect him to play great coming off a torn ACL plus his last game, he got his ass kicked in front of the world.

Rogers may be slightly overpaid but he is a guy you can count on. Both in the nickle as on the outside he does an above average job so i really don't mind paying him. However i would let him go this year if Culliver shows he is back to where he was. And you mean the Cooper that played great the first few weeks but now is the weakest link of the Chiefs D. Can't really count him as a miss.

I dont know who the FA CB's will be in March but if Chris Cook is the best one available, enough said. Draft time. With all the draft picks we have, we should be able to find at least two cornerbacks who can develop and contribute into starters. I dont want another washed up veteran CB (Asomugha) because it didnt work. No reason to try it again. Time will come where we will need to draft a CB or two so why wait? Get some young talent in the secondary and let's see how they do as rookies and beyond. After all, its not like we wont have to draft corners eventually. Back to Culliver for a minute, if he doesnt get extended by the 2014 regular season, my guess is that Baalke takes a wait and see approach with him and if he declines or just plays bad or whatever, he'll be gone in a year from now so we would still have to draft two corners in 2015. Main difference is instead of being rookies in 2015, the corners could be going into their second season which makes a difference.

I agree with you that we need to draft a CB and maybe even two depending on how the draft turns out but i cant see us using al the picks we have.

Regarding Whitner, I never said that they should go SS in the first round but i wouldnt be surprised if they do. Whitner is a hard hitting safety and good against the run but is getting older, average in coverage and will probably want more money than what SF is willing to pay him. Either way, like CB, young talent is going to be needed sooner rather than later so why wait?

I am pretty sure we will take an SS in one of the first three rounds but i think we really need to keep Whitner at least one more year. Whitner is the leader of the secondary and may not be the best player he is an important part of why Reid can play like he is doing

Reid as a rookie has played damn good and better than expected. I would have NO problems going into 2014 with a second year starting FS, a rookie starting SS and two rookie corners competing for a starting spot opposite Brock.

I would have a big problem when the biggest part of our secondary would be rookies because you need that veteran presence to give the young guys a helping hand. You simply cant ask Brock and Reid to carry the secondary so i would really keep either Whitner or Rogers to take some of the load of the young guys.

We'll be a Super Bowl contender for years to come as long as we keep adding young talent and depth across the board. Right now, the biggest weakness is the secondary and with all the draft picks we have in 2014, I dont see any problem with using three of them on a SS and two CB's.

As long as Kaepernicking keeps improving and we can keep this linebacking core we are a superbowl contender. We just have to draft to develop with an occasional pick like Reid who can step in and start.

Whitner is going to have to be replaced withing the next few years anyway and I personally rather have a rookie SS matched up with Reid for hopefully the next decade. Add some young talent at CB and there you go.

After the secondary, my concern would be the offensive line. After our starters, we have Kilgore and Looney. Both average at best. Not sure if Baalke and Harbaugh see Kilgore as the starting center next year but either way, we need a backup. Would also like to see us draft an OG and OT just for depth and the future. Yeah, we have Netter, Bykowski and Marquadt but I want guys who'll be on the 53 player roster when the season starts because that means that they're good enough to be there and in case of injuries or ineffectiveness, we'll be good.

I have to say i was really suprised when Looney came in to replace Staley and not Kilgore which i think means they don't really see it in Kilgore. I have no problem with developing guys like Marquardt because that is also where Boone comes from. Give them a year to get stronger and improve their technique. We have our back-up tackle playing RG so we can get away with having our back-up lineman being guards. And you can't have and retain five great O-lineman so i am glad to have some average ones because they save money for other position.

Regarding Staley, I never said that I wanted to let him go or anything. Quite honestly, I would keep him. All im saying is that I wouldnt be surprised to see Boone moved to LT and we draft a stud RG sooner rather than later.

How much i hate to say this but it wouldn't suprise me is Iupati will be the odd man out on the line. We have Staley and Davis tied up till 2018 and 2020 and Boone till 2016 and as much as i would hate it i think Iupati will ask too much to pay for this team. He is an amazing run blocker and really a big part of the offense but you simply can't keep everyone.

As for WR, unless there's an A.J. Green type player who's worth trading up for, I wouldnt even bother because we're just not lucky when it comes to drafting receivers in the first round. The last good one was Rice but that was almost 30 years ago. We get better receivers in the mid rounds than we do in the first round. The only other exception would be Crabtree and if Kaepernick didnt take over last season, you have to wonder if we would be loving Crabtree as much as we all do.

I won't take a WR in the first round and prefer to go with an deep threat in FA. And then go for a bigger receiver with strong hands somewhere in the middle because really thats the type of guy that fits in with Kaep.

Rest of the positions have at least two players if not more backing up our current starters who are high draft picks, break out studs (like Tony Jerod-Eddie) or waiting in the wings.

I could see Ray McDonald being a cap casualty with TJE becoming the starter next year. Have a base line of TJE-Williams-Smith and in the nickle Brooks-Dorsey-Smith-Smith i think you have enough and it also saves some cap.

Depending what happens in the off-season before the Draft, I still have CB, SS and C/OL depth as my top three positions of need. And im not expecting any top tier or even mid tier signings in FA because we wont have the cap room, we need to extend our own players and because there's not really anyone who's worth taking a chance on overpaying.
I agree with those being the biggest need with WR, QB, K and TE being minor needs. We need someone to develop behind Kaep like other good teams usually have so we don't have to count on a guy like McCoy.
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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Kilgore was drafted to play Center. He's the heir apparent to Goodwin. I don't know why everyone was suprised Looney replaced Boone. Looney was drafted to play OG. Kilgore is fine, he's right on schedule to take over for Goodwin after this season. Doesn't mean they're not high on him. He's the first O-Lineman off the bench in our jumbo package. Just means Looney is in essence the 3rd string back-up OG after Synder. Kilgore is the 2nd string center.

I think Iupati still gets he's money. Either that or they might hit hik with the franchise tag for a year. The run game has really been lacking since he went out. Even though he's had a awful year by his standards, U is still a big and vital peice to the offense.

Ray Mac isn't going anywhere. As good as TJE has looked, he's not as good as a healthy Ray Mac. Not yet anyways. They'll re-structure his deal if they need to but with Dobbs being a free agent and unlikely to be re-signed, the D-Line might be the best and deepest we've had since JH arrival next year. With Dial, Williams, Tank, TJE, Cowboy, Dorsey, and Ray Mac we should really be able to create some serious damage next year along the interior.

As far as Whitner, he REALLY needs to be re-signed. He's having a phenomenal year. He's currently the 2nd ranked safety in the enitre league according to everyone favorite eval site, PFF. Last year was just a bad year. He had a great year in 2011 and he's having a great year this year. Very few SS cover as much ground as Whither. He's athleticism is underrated because he isn't a big guy but he can fly for a SS. He should be a priority to resign but I feel some team like the Cowboys or Skins who really lacks good safety play will throw a boatload of money his way and he'll bolt. But I hope there's a way they can work out some sort of deal. He's looking at probably his last chance at a big payday so he owes it to himself to shop his services. Which is why I'm glad we have Reid. What makes Reid unique is he could play SS and not miss a beat. Which gives us a lot of flexibility draft wise and in free agnecy to go after either a SS or a FS we like.

And I never said Cook was the best CB in free agency. I said a CB like Cook makes a lot of sense for Baalke. Most ppl want Verner, which is a pipe dream. He'll probably net the biggest contract of all the free agent CBs next year. Cook is still relatively young. He's big, fast, athletic, and should be cheap...all things Baalke should be encouraged by.

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Old 12-07-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Dan, Baalke has "hit" on a ton of picks. That statement was pure garbage.

Hits:

Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Navorro Bowman
Anthony Dixon
Kyle Williams
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Chris Culliver
Kendall Hunter
Daniel Kilgore
Bruce Miller

And the verdict is still out on LMJ and Looney. He also drafted Colin Jones and Marcus Cooper who have made impacts in their short careers. And that list was just his first 3 drafts. You can't even begin to pass judgment on this past draft since most of those picks were not expected to see many snaps. Eric Reid looks like a stud already.

And don't bother with one of your long-winded replies. There isn't one thing you can say that will make me think Baalke has missed more than he's hit in the draft. That's utterly ridiculous.
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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Dan, Baalke has "hit" on a ton of picks. That statement was pure garbage.

Hits:

Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Navorro Bowman
Anthony Dixon
Kyle Williams
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Chris Culliver
Kendall Hunter
Daniel Kilgore
Bruce Miller

And the verdict is still out on LMJ and Looney. He also drafted Colin Jones and Marcus Cooper who have made impacts in their short careers. And that list was just his first 3 drafts. You can't even begin to pass judgment on this past draft since most of those picks were not expected to see many snaps. Eric Reid looks like a stud already.

And don't bother with one of your long-winded replies. There isn't one thing you can say that will make me think Baalke has missed more than he's hit in the draft. That's utterly ridiculous.
First, that list is from TWO drafts, not three. Second, correct me if im wrong but Baalke wasnt the GM until 2011 when he was promoted and Harbaugh became our head coach.

Third, im going to exclude the first two players since im not sure if Baalke was the GM. Williams was solid but is gone and to me, a miss. Aldon is a hit thus far but at the same time, is one big mistake away from making it a miss because after all, as we all know, its not what you did years ago, its what you're doing now that matters. Kaepernick is 50/50. I like him a lot and hope he becomes our true franchise QB but he definitely needs to improve with his reads and his progression to his receivers. Culliver was arguably our best corner before the Super Bowl, coming off an ACL tear, he could easily be gone in March 2015 and in that case, he becomes a miss. Hunter is a hit but Roman needs to use him (and James) more. If he doesnt, he'll become a miss. Kilgore is a miss to me unless he gets extended in the off-season and wins the starting center job. He's a solid backup but in his third season, I was expecting him to beat out Goodwin already. Miller is a definite hit.

2012 draft is nothing but misses unless James somehow becomes awesome which I dont see happening since they rarely play the damn guy. Jones and Cooper arent hits for us, they're misses. If they were hits, they would still be in a 49ers uniform and even then, who knows. For them, it could just be a different team, scheme, etc. made them hits instead of misses.

As for 2013, excluding Reid, all of the draft picks are either misses thus far or incomplete. Have to wait and see how the 2013 draft class goes next year.

2011 - 6 hits, 4 misses and let's be honest, Aldon, Kaepernick, Culliver and Kilgore could still turn into misses depending on how they recover from injury, progress or if they stay out of trouble off the field.

2012 - 0 hits, 7 misses. Sorry but James is the only one who could be a major hit but they barely play the guy which tells me that he's more of a miss.

2013 - Out of 11 draft picks, 1 has been a hit (Reid) while 2 have been misses (Daniels and Cooper) while Lemonier has been more of a hit than a miss and McDonald being the opposite with the rest being incomplete.

Even if you add 5 hits from 2010, you still have 3 misses including a second rounder. Total would be 12 hits, 16 misses, Lemonier/McDonald evening each other out and the rest being incomplete.

And depending on who gets re-signed within the next two years will also determine hits and misses because say for argument sake that we dont franchise Iupati and he leaves as an UFA in 2015. How could you possibly put him as a hit when we didnt keep him? I can understand older players and whatnot but young core players who are worth keeping should be kept even if they cost a little extra. Letting players like him leave turn the hits into misses. But hey, im not bashing Baalke. I actually like the guy. I just wish him and harbaugh would have more faith and confidence in rookies and younger players like they do with Reid instead of those guys just wasting away on the bench in favor of veterans who quite honestly, arent great to begin with.
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:50 AM    (permalink
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So you're counting 6th and 7th rounders as misses? Lol. Do you expect superstars to come out of the last rounds? It can happen, but to expect to "hit" every pick no matter what the round is pure lunacy.

FYI, McCloughan "left" the team a month or two prior to the 2010 draft. That one was Baalke, though he didn't have the job title yet. I know that demolishes your argument, but as you would say, "oh well."
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:57 AM    (permalink
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I can always count on Dan to say some truly dumb ****. Seriously that has to be some of the most idiotic logic I've seen in quite some time. No GM hits on EVERY single pick, what are you smoking? GM or not, Baalke was responsible for the 2010 draft. He pulled the trigger on all those picks because Scotty Mac was fired a month prior to the draft. That is a FACT. If you are able to land at least two or three eventual starters out of every draft, your doing better than most teams. Doesn't matter who gets re-signed and who doesnt. That has no bearing on talent. No team can keep every single free agent they've drafted. That's absurd thinking and logic. There is this thing called the salary cap. The fact other teams want his players and comb through our releases to fill out their roster speaks to how much respect OTHER GMs have for his talent evaluation. Anyone who questions whether or not Baalke can spot talent and find quality players seriously needs their heads examine. Just his job with the UDFAs alone blows your whole arguement out of the water. And UDFAs are essential tied to each draft so yeah. Even a guy like Kyle Williams can't pass through waivers. Maybe you need to do some research before you open your mouth. Look around the league and evaluate other teams roster and see how many hits and misses other GMs have. You would see Baalke is batting like .600 and his slugging percentage is absurd. Go around and ask other fans of other teams if they would like to trade rosters with us. I'm pretty sure most would. Their are only 11 starter on each said of the ball for every team. Every player you draft can't be a starter. You have to be able to find quality back-ups and role players as well. Baalke has stacked this team, especially defensively and in the trenches. He has no bearing on who gets playing time and who doesn't. He's not the coach. His job is provide the staff with talented players and he's done just that. Whether or not guys get playing time shouldn't be held against him. LMJ was drafted to fit role. To provide the offense with more speed and explosion. He wasn't drafted to be a starter. He was drafted to be a change-of-pace back. You focus too much on where guys were drafted. Oh he's a second rounder so he's supposed to be a starter right? WRONG! Different circumstances factor into each pick. Blame JH and Roman for a failure to utlize him in an offense severly lacking explosive players. But that's not on Baalke because LMJ is a talented RB who would thrive with a number of offenses around the league. We just happened to be stacked at RB so touches are limited. You can count him as miss if you want but how many teams have a talented RB like LMJ as a 3rd string RB? Its not about hits and misses, its about building a roster and having different peices and players with different skillset to round out said roster. No one and I repeat NO ONE has a roster of 53 hits, c'mon now lets be realistic here. Hell, no team has a roster with even 40 hits.

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Old 12-08-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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So you're counting 6th and 7th rounders as misses? Lol. Do you expect superstars to come out of the last rounds? It can happen, but to expect to "hit" every pick no matter what the round is pure lunacy.

FYI, McCloughan "left" the team a month or two prior to the 2010 draft. That one was Baalke, though he didn't have the job title yet. I know that demolishes your argument, but as you would say, "oh well."
If you can count 6th and 7th rounders as hits, why cant I count them as misses? Bottom line is that it doesnt matter what round or pick the player is drafted at, its about how good or bad the player was.

I knew McCloughan left the team but didnt know when and didnt know who was in control of the draft. And if Baalke was in full charge of the 2010 draft, how do you explain us drafting Taylor Mays which was a Singletary pick 100%?

You can count 2010, it still evens out. I count every draft pick as a hit or miss regardless of where the player was drafted. Look at Bruce Miller, Anthony Dixon, etc. If they sucked, you would say that they were late rounders so no big deal but because one has been good and the other a stud, you count them as hits so why would I not count the misses?

I dont expect any team to hit on every pick, but I do expect them to hit in the first round and hopefully the second and third round with the rest being whatever happens happens. Either way, if you're going to count late rounders who were hits, im going to count those who were misses. After all, its only fair since the expectations for late rounders are all the same.
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I can always count on Dan to say some truly dumb ****. Seriously that has to be some of the most idiotic logic I've seen in quite some time. No GM hits on EVERY single pick, what are you smoking? GM or not, Baalke was responsible for the 2010 draft. He pulled the trigger on all those picks because Scotty Mac was fired a month prior to the draft.

That is a FACT. If you are able to land at least two or three eventual starters out of every draft, your doing better than most teams. Doesn't matter who gets re-signed and who doesnt. That has no bearing on talent. No team can keep every single free agent they've drafted. That's absurd thinking and logic. There is this thing called the salary cap. The fact other teams want his players and comb through our releases to fill out their roster speaks to how much respect OTHER GMs have for his talent evaluation.

Anyone who questions whether or not Baalke can spot talent and find quality players seriously needs their heads examine. Just his job with the UDFAs alone blows your whole arguement out of the water. And UDFAs are essential tied to each draft so yeah. Even a guy like Kyle Williams can't pass through waivers. Maybe you need to do some research before you open your mouth. Look around the league and evaluate other teams roster and see how many hits and misses other GMs have.

You would see Baalke is batting like .600 and his slugging percentage is absurd. Go around and ask other fans of other teams if they would like to trade rosters with us. I'm pretty sure most would. Their are only 11 starter on each said of the ball for every team. Every player you draft can't be a starter. You have to be able to find quality back-ups and role players as well. Baalke has stacked this team, especially defensively and in the trenches. He has no bearing on who gets playing time and who doesn't. He's not the coach. His job is provide the staff with talented players and he's done just that. Whether or not guys get playing time shouldn't be held against him. LMJ was drafted to fit role. To provide the offense with more speed and explosion. He wasn't drafted to be a starter. He was drafted to be a change-of-pace back. You focus too much on where guys were drafted.

Oh he's a second rounder so he's supposed to be a starter right? WRONG! Different circumstances factor into each pick. Blame JH and Roman for a failure to utlize him in an offense severly lacking explosive players. But that's not on Baalke because LMJ is a talented RB who would thrive with a number of offenses around the league. We just happened to be stacked at RB so touches are limited. You can count him as miss if you want but how many teams have a talented RB like LMJ as a 3rd string RB? Its not about hits and misses, its about building a roster and having different peices and players with different skillset to round out said roster. No one and I repeat NO ONE has a roster of 53 hits, c'mon now lets be realistic here. Hell, no team has a roster with even 40 hits.
Okay, so 2010 has 5 hits and 3 misses for Baalke. Mays was a huge miss. Traded a year after being drafted. That rarely happens especially before the rookie wage scale. To me, resigning these guys who are hits do count because you're losing players who you hit on. Those who are good to great should be re-signed. Granted, cant keep them all but at the same time, when you waste money and cap room on re-signing Rogers who'll most likely be released in February, you're obviously not going to have the cap room to sign those good to great players you drafted and sorry, but thats on Baalke.

I'm not bashing Baalke or his talent at evaluating draft classes. I'm bashing him because his overall percentage isnt as great as you guys make it out to be. What if we lose a Kaepernick, Aldon or Culliver in 2015? How can you consider them hits if they're no longer on the team? Yeah, they were hits for the team that signed them as an UFA.

I know why James was drafted but he's barely used and regardless of the reason, that falls on Baalke first and foremost because if you draft guys who arent being used then why not draft a player who will be used? I'm not expecting James to be a starter but I was expecting him to make a Hunter 2011 like impact this year and he's done nothing. Harbaugh and Roman/Fangio should know what players they can use and how they will use them but if they're not sure, then Baalke shouldnt draft them. Thats on Baalke because after all, he's the one with the final say.

Baalke has been great at drafting. 2010, 2011 have been great. But 2012 has sucked and outside of Reid (and to a lesser extent, Lemonier) so has 2013.

In the game topic, you said that the reason Carradine hasnt played is because he's making a huge transition so why would you draft a player that has to make that kind of transition when im sure there's other players who wouldnt have to make a huge adjustment?

Dont get me wrong, im hoping that Carradine and others become good to great for us but at the same time, its always bugged me when players are drafted who dont fit the scheme or whatnot but are expected to as opposed to players who do fit the scheme and whatnot and can actually contribute sooner rather than later.
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Okay, so 2010 has 5 hits and 3 misses for Baalke. Mays was a huge miss. Traded a year after being drafted. That rarely happens especially before the rookie wage scale. To me, resigning these guys who are hits do count because you're losing players who you hit on. Those who are good to great should be re-signed. Granted, cant keep them all but at the same time, when you waste money and cap room on re-signing Rogers who'll most likely be released in February, you're obviously not going to have the cap room to sign those good to great players you drafted and sorry, but thats on Baalke.

I'm not bashing Baalke or his talent at evaluating draft classes. I'm bashing him because his overall percentage isnt as great as you guys make it out to be. What if we lose a Kaepernick, Aldon or Culliver in 2015? How can you consider them hits if they're no longer on the team? Yeah, they were hits for the team that signed them as an UFA.

I know why James was drafted but he's barely used and regardless of the reason, that falls on Baalke first and foremost because if you draft guys who arent being used then why not draft a player who will be used? I'm not expecting James to be a starter but I was expecting him to make a Hunter 2011 like impact this year and he's done nothing. Harbaugh and Roman/Fangio should know what players they can use and how they will use them but if they're not sure, then Baalke shouldnt draft them. Thats on Baalke because after all, he's the one with the final say.

Baalke has been great at drafting. 2010, 2011 have been great. But 2012 has sucked and outside of Reid (and to a lesser extent, Lemonier) so has 2013.

In the game topic, you said that the reason Carradine hasnt played is because he's making a huge transition so why would you draft a player that has to make that kind of transition when im sure there's other players who wouldnt have to make a huge adjustment?

Dont get me wrong, im hoping that Carradine and others become good to great for us but at the same time, its always bugged me when players are drafted who dont fit the scheme or whatnot but are expected to as opposed to players who do fit the scheme and whatnot and can actually contribute sooner rather than later.
I just want to talk about the bolded part. We are a team that went to the Super Bowl last year. We are aren't supposed to have rookies step right in and contribute much right away. Reid starts. McDonald sees the field a lot. And Lemonier performed quite well when we needed him to step up when Aldon was gone. That makes 2013 a very good draft class already, IMO. Tank was a 1st rd talent that fell due to injury. With time and coaching he can do well in this system. I love that pick. Everyone knew that Lattimore wouldn't play this season. Another talented player, and former 1st rd projected prospect, that fell due to injury as well. I don't have super high hopes for him, but I understand taking the chance on him when we did and I hope he does well, of course. Patton did well in the preseason before getting injured himself. I really think he'll turn into a very solid NFL receiver.

Besides all of that, whatever happened to waiting 2 or 3 years before judging a current draft class?
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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And doesn't Baalke back off a bit with the 2nd round and allow the HC to stand on the table for "his guy?"

Taylor Mays and LaMichael James scream that to me.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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I just want to talk about the bolded part. We are a team that went to the Super Bowl last year. We are aren't supposed to have rookies step right in and contribute much right away. Reid starts. McDonald sees the field a lot. And Lemonier performed quite well when we needed him to step up when Aldon was gone. That makes 2013 a very good draft class already, IMO. Tank was a 1st rd talent that fell due to injury. With time and coaching he can do well in this system. I love that pick. Everyone knew that Lattimore wouldn't play this season. Another talented player, and former 1st rd projected prospect, that fell due to injury as well. I don't have super high hopes for him, but I understand taking the chance on him when we did and I hope he does well, of course. Patton did well in the preseason before getting injured himself. I really think he'll turn into a very solid NFL receiver.

Besides all of that, whatever happened to waiting 2 or 3 years before judging a current draft class?
As we all know, its not about waiting 2 or 3 years down the line, its all about what you're doing now. Just look at A.J. Jenkins. Enough said in regards to waiting.

As for the 2013 draft class, its more of an incomplete than anything else. I said it sucks but I should have worded it differently. Majority of players not playing due to injury (Carradine and Lattimore), getting injured during the season (Patton, Dial and Moody) or being let go (Daniels and Cooper) is why the draft class has sucked thus far.

With that said, im already looking forward to next season because im anxious to see Lattimore play to find out if he can be the successor to Gore. Carradine to a lesser extent but because he has to learn a new scheme and position, I think that the team would have been better off drafting a DE who doesnt need to transition like Carradine does. With that said, im hoping he can be the replacement for Justin Smith but like Lattimore replacing Gore, it remains to be seen.

Moody and Dial have come back to be decent. Lemonier has been better than expected and doesnt make me as concerned as I was if/when Aldon gets suspended. Was hoping to see Patton be our third receiver but his broken foot ended that for this season. Reid has been a stud thus far and to be perfectly honest, im not missing Goldson at all.

McDonald has been a disappointment thus far but its not all on him. Quite simply, I was just expecting more out of our last two draft classes this season. Not starters but at least solid 12-15 snaps a game and in a regular rotation. 2012 has been pure crap. Jenkins was a huge bust and is gone. Robinson, Slowey and Johnson are long gone. Looney missed his entire rookie season and has finally played this season but im not expecting him to be anything more than a backup. Fleming has been injured and I'll be shocked if he makes it past final cuts next year. James has been our best player and he's been average at best. Granted, its not all on him but at the same time, if Harbaugh and Roman dont have plays for him, then what was the point in drafting him to begin with?

James could be a Sproles type player but they dont even use the guy on offense and is only returning kicks and punts because Williams is long gone.

To me, team is depending on too many veterans especially in the secondary and to a lesser extent, at WR and on the OL for depth. I know a lot of people want us to re-sign Whitner but if he stays or goes doesnt even matter to me. I personally rather draft a safety to start opposite Reid and at least two CB because spending money on an average or above average UFA CB isnt worth it. If the same level of talent and skill is available in the draft, I would much rather get one or two rookie CB's for four years at a cheap price.

Veteran CB's like Rogers (who has played better this year than last but still declined compared to 2011), Brown, Wright (and Asomugha) arent worth re-signing or keeping. I like Brock as a starter. Culliver should be a starter but have to wait and see what happens. After them, we only have Morris. We need to draft at least two cornerbacks in my opinion. I definitely dont want to see us overpay a veteran FA. Would much rather see that money and cap room be put towards extending Iupati, Kaepernick and Aldon.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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And doesn't Baalke back off a bit with the 2nd round and allow the HC to stand on the table for "his guy?"

Taylor Mays and LaMichael James scream that to me.
He shouldnt back off. He's the GM and while the HC is the first to get blamed, it eventually gets to the GM. Mays was a Singletary pick plain and simple. I definitely see James being a Harbaugh and Roman pick and thats what makes it worse if thats the case. They dont even play the damn guy as much as they should.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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What is with all the Baalke talk? He is fine. We have bigger problems to worry about like Roman or how the playoffs are going to shape up.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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You still haven't answer my question Dan.....show me a team with 53 'hits'. Hell, show me a team with 30 hits. SHOW ME! Show me a GM who get it right, more times than not. Show me the roster you think should be the blueprint as to how it done. Tell me who the GM is that should be doing what Baalke is doing? I'll wait...

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Old 12-09-2013, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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What is with all the Baalke talk? He is fine. We have bigger problems to worry about like Roman or how the playoffs are going to shape up.
Because Dan thinks that a GM should be picking starters in every round of the draft. At first I was like "wut?!?" but now I'm more just fascinated by his expectations. He's definitely the only person I've ever read that thinks that way. Baalke's first three drafts have produced an outstanding number of key players (I'm intentionally leaving out 2013 cause it's way too early to evaluate). And yet, he seems disappointed. I'm intrigued.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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You still haven't answer my question Dan.....show me a team with 53 'hits'. Hell, show me a team with 30 hits. SHOW ME! Show me a GM who get it right, more times than not. Show me the roster you think should be the blueprint as to how it done. Tell me who the GM is that should be doing what Baalke is doing? I'll wait...
I never said that there was a team with 53 hits or 40 or 30 hits. I never said that I expected there to be all hits. I said that Baalke hasnt been as great as you guys claim him to be. 2012 draft class is so bad that it lowers the grade for 2010 and 2011. Thats how bad it is.

GM wise, if I had to pick, just Seahawks GM John Schneider. His secondary is easily better. Front seven can go either way. QB and RB are even. We have the edge at WR, TE and the OL. Other than that guy, probably no one else.

As much as I hate the Seahawks, there's a good amount of players that are good and I wouldnt mind having. The main thing is that I must admit I like the move to acquire Harvin. Granted, he hasnt done anything yet due to injury but Schneider saw a weakness and addressed it quickly.

Baalke didnt do that after losing Moss, Walker and Ginn. And even though Crabtree is back, he's not 100% yet and if it wasnt for Boldin, I dont even think that we would be 9-4.

My ideas and fantasies regarding roster moves are out there but I would have taken a chance on Wallace for example and looking at it now, have to admit that Ness was right, for a first rounder, Gordon would have been worth the risk. Thats the only thing I dont like about Baalke and the coaching staff. They dont take that risk or make that move you would like to see them make. Even if it doesnt work, at least try.

Other than that guy, no one else.
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