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Old 02-24-2014, 05:44 PM    (permalink
dan77733
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Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 View Post
No he doesn't.

I have always said that he is one of the if not THE best coach in the NFL (even with how much of a ******* tool he is)...but until he wins a ring he doesn't deserve to be the highest paid. He's not even the best coach in his division.
Sadly, I agree.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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No he doesn't.

I have always said that he is one of the if not THE best coach in the NFL (even with how much of a ******* tool he is)...but until he wins a ring he doesn't deserve to be the highest paid. He's not even the best coach in his division.
This doesn't matter in the slightest. Harbaugh can and probably will make whatever demands he wants. When you've led a previously bad team to 35 wins in 3 seasons, you can name your price. If you don't then a team like Cleveland will gladly pay for a guy who has as many wins in the last 3 seasons as they do in the last 7.

It's not about how much someone deserves, it's about how much somebody will pay. Paying Harbaugh $10 million is a hell of a lot better than derailing a franchise which is stable and excelling right now.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Harbaugh won't get the highest deal in the league. I will bet that Baalke won't let that happen.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Could see them agreeing on a automatic raise once he wins one.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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God I hate our fans.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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I was Looking back at the 2012 draft thread and it sure is fun...lol
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 View Post
No he doesn't.

I have always said that he is one of the if not THE best coach in the NFL (even with how much of a ******* tool he is)...but until he wins a ring he doesn't deserve to be the highest paid. He's not even the best coach in his division.
Yeah but you're forgetting you aren't the one who makes the rules. A ring doesn't necessarily make you a better coach or player than someone else. There is a reason why Marv Levy is a Hall of Fame coach and someone like Tom Flores isn't. For instance. Or why people remember Marty Schottenheimer as a better coach than Barry Switzer.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 02-25-2014, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Harbaugh won't get the highest deal in the league. I will bet that Baalke won't let that happen.
Except it isn't Baalke's decision. It is Jed's. We're talking about a coach. Not a player under the salary cap.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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So? You think that Harbaugh heading into a new situation is going to derail him from asking for more power? Why would he, with an ego like the one he has, be reluctant to ask for power within the organization? Especially since he was a hot commodity and the 49ers were looking for the next savior to get them back on top after nearly ten years in the dungeon. It's not like Harbaugh was begging for a job. And as far as Harbaugh and Baalke's relationship goes, there is no context that exists or that is out in the public to categorize their relationship and how good it is or is not. Just hearsay from sportswriters. And it isn't even one-sided in that regard. Not sure why you think Harbaugh won't be here for the foreseeable future. He's fantastic coach and the best one the 49ers have had since Seifert took the controls from Walsh. Jed's house would be burned to the ground if he allowed Harbaugh to leave. Jim deserves to be the highest paid coach in the NFL. I have no remorse for billionaire owners shedding out some coin for a person that clearly deserves it. And if it comes between Harbaugh and Baalke, I'm taking Harbaugh all the way. Baalke is more replaceable than Harbaugh to me. Yeah sure we don't know Harbaugh's track record if he were to man drafts and other operations, but Trent was here before with the 49ers organization and we were still losing. We had the talent, but not the coaching. That is why we sucked. Hopefully both can continue to co-exist.
Baalke wasn't in charge when we were losing so what does that have to do with anything? His role was limited. Once he was put in power however, he moved quickly to added JH and the team took off from there. He deserves just as much credit as JH. You conveniently forgot that JH said that one of the main reasons he took the job with us was because he ws impressed with Baalke and his vision on how to build a roster and have sustainable success. We don't get JH without Baalke so lets set the record straight.

And JH doesnt have the type of success he's had without the talent that Baalke has blessed him with. Sure some of our guys were already established before Baalke came into power. Gore, Staley, Willis, VD, Cowboy, and Crabs were all here already. But where would this team be without the guys Baalke has added. Are we playing in the NFCCG game 3 years straight without the additions of CK, Aldon, Bowman, Whitner, Miller, Iupati, Boone, Boldin, Reid, and Brock? It goes hand in hand. Neither guy is successful without the other.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Baalke wasn't in charge when we were losing so what does that have to do with anything? His role was limited. Once he was put in power however, he moved quickly to added JH and the team took off from there. He deserves just as much credit as JH. You conveniently forgot that JH said that one of the main reasons he took the job with us was because he ws impressed with Baalke and his vision on how to build a roster and have sustainable success. We don't get JH without Baalke so lets set the record straight.

And JH doesnt have the type of success he's had without the talent that Baalke has blessed him with. Sure some of our guys were already established before Baalke came into power. Gore, Staley, Willis, VD, Cowboy, and Crabs were all here already. But where would this team be without the guys Baalke has added. Are we playing in the NFCCG game 3 years straight without the additions of CK, Aldon, Bowman, Whitner, Miller, Iupati, Boone, Boldin, Reid, and Brock? It goes hand in hand. Neither guy is successful without the other.
Yeah, Baalke wasn't in charge. I knew you would say that. Regardless, he was still here and was an assistant to Scott Mcloughlin. He wasn't the trigger man, but he was around. He's been a scout, and then director for player personnel for a long time. He has brought us a lot of notable players for this roster. He also swung and missed on an entire NFL draft.

And I never said that we don't get Harbaugh without Baalke. This isn't about who is responsible for how Harbs got here. It's about who is more replaceable. To me that is Baalke. You can have all the talent in the world and still suck because you have bad coaching. I don't want to go through that garbage again. Harbaugh has had success everywhere he's been with a variety of different people. I don't see why that would suddenly change because Baalke isn't in his life. A lot of players that Harbaugh recruited at Stanford are now in the NFL having success too. Who was Trent Baalke before Harbaugh?
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 02-25-2014, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Baalke wasn't in charge when we were losing so what does that have to do with anything? His role was limited. Once he was put in power however, he moved quickly to added JH and the team took off from there. He deserves just as much credit as JH. You conveniently forgot that JH said that one of the main reasons he took the job with us was because he ws impressed with Baalke and his vision on how to build a roster and have sustainable success. We don't get JH without Baalke so lets set the record straight.

And JH doesnt have the type of success he's had without the talent that Baalke has blessed him with. Sure some of our guys were already established before Baalke came into power. Gore, Staley, Willis, VD, Cowboy, and Crabs were all here already. But where would this team be without the guys Baalke has added. Are we playing in the NFCCG game 3 years straight without the additions of CK, Aldon, Bowman, Whitner, Miller, Iupati, Boone, Boldin, Reid, and Brock? It goes hand in hand. Neither guy is successful without the other.
Why do you even bother arguing with Ness? He's so far up Harbaugh's ass that he cant even see daylight.

And I agree with you. Both need each other. However, Baalke > Harbaugh. Having an excellent GM is harder to replace than a HC. Hell, just look at the Cowboys. Enough said.

Just have to wait and see how this plays out. It will all depend on if York wants to pay what Harbaugh wants. I dont think he will because if he was, he would have done so already. I can pretty much see Harbaugh being gone in a year from now if he doesnt win the Super Bowl and gets what he wants which to be perfectly honest, is fine by me. He's outworn his welcome and is simply becoming a huge pain in the ass.

Worse part is that when you look at the Seahawks, they're a far superior TEAM. They all work together. Thus far, they havent had any of the problems that we've had, plus unlike us, they WON the Super Bowl they were playing in. Quite simply, the longer Harbaugh is our head coach, the worse things are going to get behind the scenes.

And with $16-18m being the "floor" for starting contract talks with Kaepernick, im sorry, I would be moving on from them because quite simply, if Harbaugh couldnt get Kaepernick to improve this past season, how the hell is he going to do that once Kaepernick gets paid? Majority here may be more concerned about what happens if we dont keep/pay Harbaugh and Kaepernick but im far more concerned about what happens if we do.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Baalke wasn't in charge. I knew you would say that. Regardless, he was still here and was an assistant to Scott Mcloughlin. He wasn't the trigger man, but he was around. He's been a scout, and then director for player personnel for a long time. He has brought us a lot of notable players for this roster. He also swung and missed on an entire NFL draft.

And I never said that we don't get Harbaugh without Baalke. This isn't about who is responsible for how Harbs got here. It's about who is more replaceable. To me that is Baalke. You can have all the talent in the world and still suck because you have bad coaching. I don't want to go through that garbage again. Harbaugh has had success everywhere he's been with a variety of different people. I don't see why that would suddenly change because Baalke isn't in his life. A lot of players that Harbaugh recruited at Stanford are now in the NFL having success too. Who was Trent Baalke before Harbaugh?
Like I said EVERY successful NFL franchise who has sustainable success starts with management. Packers and Ted Thompson, Steelers and Colbert, Ravens and Ozzie, NE who has had their front-office purged by nearly every team in the league. It starts there. I never said JH wouldn't be successful without Baalke. But its laughable that your comparing being successful in college to MAINTAINIG success at the pro level. Two completely different worlds with salary cap and free agency. JH will be successful wherever he lands. But to what degree depends entirely on the talent around him. He isn't some of God-like figure because we started winning we he got here. Talent was already here, he just knew the right buttons to push. We were always labeled as talented but underwhelming team before his arrival. We just never played up to expectations. Its not like he came here and turned water into wine with medicore players and fringe roster talent. I sure give him a ton of credit for Alex but with his background as a QB, I expected him to. Like I said, he's one of the most talented coaches in the league. I have no doubt about his abilities to lead men. But you put him somewhere with piss-poor management and so-so talent and he will stink up the place just like anybody else.

Baalke worked his way up the ranks, like any good GM. To knock him because he came up under guys who weren't successful here is lame argument and isn't grounded in any logic whatsoever. As soon as he became a GM, the organization had successs on the field, he won Executive Of The Year, and is now responsible for one if the most talented teams in the league. What happen before he was GM is competely irrelevant. As a GM, he's been just as impressive as JH has been as a HC because their success has to be tied together. There's no other way around it. We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on this. I'm hopefully that BOTH guys hash out their differences and understand they wouldn't be as successful without the other. But JH just seems to be that alpha male type that wants to be holding all the cards and as long as Jed and Baalke are running the show, I'm not sure how that's going to happen. I have no evidence of this but, just a hunch.
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Like I said EVERY successful NFL franchise who has sustainable success starts with management. Packers and Ted Thompson, Steelers and Colbert, Ravens and Ozzie, NE who has had their front-office purged by nearly every team in the league. It starts there. I never said JH wouldn't be successful without Baalke. But its laughable that your comparing being successful in college to MAINTAINIG success at the pro level. Two completely different worlds with salary cap and free agency. JH will be successful wherever he lands. But to what degree depends entirely on the talent around him. He isn't some of God-like figure because we started winning we he got here. Talent was already here, he just knew the right buttons to push. We were always labeled as talented but underwhelming team before his arrival. We just never played up to expectations. Its not like he came here and turned water into wine with medicore players and fringe roster talent. I sure give him a ton of credit for Alex but with his background as a QB, I expected him to. Like I said, he's one of the most talented coaches in the league. I have no doubt about his abilities to lead men. But you put him somewhere with piss-poor management and so-so talent and he will stink up the place just like anybody else.

Baalke worked his way up the ranks, like any good GM. To knock him because he came up under guys who weren't successful here is lame argument and isn't grounded in any logic whatsoever. As soon as he became a GM, the organization had successs on the field, he won Executive Of The Year, and is now responsible for one if the most talented teams in the league. What happen before he was GM is competely irrelevant. As a GM, he's been just as impressive as JH has been as a HC because their success has to be tied together. There's no other way around it. We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on this. I'm hopefully that BOTH guys hash out their differences and understand they wouldn't be as successful without the other. But JH just seems to be that alpha male type that wants to be holding all the cards and as long as Jed and Baalke are running the show, I'm not sure how that's going to happen. I have no evidence of this but, just a hunch.
Okay. It's laughable you always think it's about management. Because it isn't. I will say that usually it is, but not always. If this was was the case then why did the Patriots keep rolling when Scott Pioli bounced for Kansas City where he was fired a short time later? Why haven't the Cowboys recovered since the days of Jimmy Johnson?

And you can't say definitely that Harbaugh would be successful without Trent Baalke. You don't know that for a fact. What we know is that Jim has had success at every level in his career as a head coach working with various organizations and different people. This is fact. Can he do it at the pro level without Baalke at his hip? No one knows, but I'm willing to bet money that he would be able to. And I don't think Baalke is just going to find the next guy to replace Harbaugh and we'll keep on tuning. If you're going to replace Harbaugh you better make sure the next guy is at his level of coaching. Three NFC Championships and one Super Bowl appearance. Yeah good luck trying to find the next coach that can keep that kind of consistency. It's one thing to acquire talent, it's a different thing to know how to utilize it. Before Baalke was in charge we had talent on the field. It was the coaching that killed us. And while you are high on Baalke, I think you should realize that he's not some guy that has been on a hot streak with his decisions either. Missing on the entire 2012 was horrible. And yeah we got some great free agent additions during his tenure thus far, but we also got guys like Brandon Jacobs, Braylon Edwards, and Nnamdi Asomugha that were essentially a waste of time.

And yes it's obvious we aren't going to see eye to eye on this. You think Baalke is more vital to the franchise. I completely disagree with that. Really Jed York needs to just give Harbaugh his money if that is the only thing that is standing in the way. If Harbaugh wants more power in the organization, then that is something else. If Jed, Baalke, and Paraag Marathe are simply playing hardball with just the money and trying to draw lines in the sand, that is beyond ********.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...s-aldon-smith/

Very good read and insight.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
Per this article, Harbaugh hasn't asked for power in negotiations....he wants a personnel guy who "fits his style". But from another source...

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And that's what makes this soap opera so interesting. York can't capitulate. And it's not just because being bullied by Harbaugh would set a bad precedent. It's because Harbaugh never will be content. It's in his nature to create chaos. He thrives in it. He's the god of discord. If this current crisis is solved, another will pop up in a few months. If general manager Trent Baalke is dismissed, Harbaugh will pick a fight with the next guy.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...#storylink=cpy

Which means if we choose Harbaugh, we could be in a never ending game where this kind of thing pops up every couple of years. (Thats if we have to choose anyone at all)
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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Another thing is this -

Harbaugh hasnt asked for power or control but if he becomes the highest paid coach in the league, he wont need to ask because his contract and salary gives it to him automatically as its not like York will be able to do anything once he signs that contract. After all, you're not going to fire a guy who you just made the league's highest paid coach and even if you do, you still have to pay him so either way, Harbaugh wins.

Bottom line is that this entire situation is becoming a huge cluster****.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Has anybody heard how much Kilgore got on his 3 year deal? This is good news I think. Sounds like they like what they have been seeing. One less need to fill in FA/draft!!
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:43 AM    (permalink
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Has anybody heard how much Kilgore got on his 3 year deal? This is good news I think. Sounds like they like what they have been seeing. One less need to fill in FA/draft!!
Dont know. Still need another center to start or be the backup depending on if Kilgore wins the starting job. Either way, good extension.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah you can never have enough depth but it certainly seems drafting a Center in the first 3-4 rounds just became a lot less likely.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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Yeah you can never have enough depth but it certainly seems drafting a Center in the first 3-4 rounds just became a lot less likely.
That depends on if the team views Kilgore as the starting center or a backup like he's been.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Has anybody heard how much Kilgore got on his 3 year deal?
Info regarding Kilgore's deal and those of other linemen...

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Guarantees: $1.35 M signing bonus + 2014 base salary.

$900 K escalators available for both 2016 and 2017.

2014 - $645 K base, $337.5 K bonus proration, $40.075 K bonus proration from rookie contract
2015 - $800 K base, $200 K roster bonus (split $12.5 K per game), $337.5 K bonus proration
2016 - $900 K base, $200 K roster bonus (split $12.5 K per game), $337.5 K bonus proration
2017 - $1 M base, $200 K roster bonus (split $12.5 K per game), $337.5 K bonus proration

Cap numbers

(not including possible escalators)

2014 - $1.02 M
2015 - $1.34 M (includes roster bonus)
2016 - $1.44 M (includes roster bonus)
2017 - $1.54 M (includes roster bonus)



Staley is signed through 2017 with fairly reasonable cap numbers: $3.4 M (2014), $5.2 M (2015), $6.1 M (2016), and $6.95 M (2017). He'll be thirty-four heading into 2018.
Mike Iupati is signed through 2014 with a cap number of $4.43 M.

Alex Boone is signed through 2015. Cap numbers: $2.59 M (2014) and $1.79 M (2015).

Anthony Davis is signed through 2019. He'll be heading into his age 31 season in 2020. Cap numbers: $7.53 M (2014), $6.72 M (2015), $5.15 M (2016), $6.50 M (2017), $6.38 M (2018), $6.38 M (2019).

Utility backup Joe Looney is signed through 2015. Cap numbers: $676 K (2014) and $766 K (2015).
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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The 49ers have in large part won because of their defense, and that defense is great because it has incredible talent (and is coached incredibly by Vic Fangio and his staff).

Again: Harbaugh is a great coach, but without the Pro Bowlers, how far really would the 49ers have gone? You must have the talent to start, and to maintain a long run, you must have the ability to keep the conveyor belt going and going.

–Another example: Jon Gruden was and probably remains a tremendous coach, as he showed in his Raiders tenure and in his first season in Tampa, when he won a Super Bowl with the players acquired by a previous regime.

–But how good was Gruden’s overall reign in Tampa, when he controlled the drafts and personnel (with Bruce Allen as his right-hand man) and the Bucs’ roster kept getting less and less talented with every new decision Gruden and Allen made?

–Not very good, it turns out. Gruden wasn’t a personnel guy in many of the same impulsive ways that Harbaugh isn’t a personnel guy–they change their minds too often, they get too upset by one mistake on one day and have a harder time looking at the longer view.

–And Gruden’s choice for a top exec was just a go-along guy, not a strong personnel hand, which weakened the Buccaneers in the same way that another go-along guy would weaken any long-term Harbaugh regime.

That means, if you have a good general manager who runs a good scouting department, can run a draft and manage the salary cap, pick veteran free agents and get along decently with others…

Then that’s not a replaceable “suit,” to use John Madden’s term. That’s a guy you hold onto, if at all possible
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pretty good read.....

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...-it/?utm_sourc

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Old 03-03-2014, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Boldin signed!!!!!

2 years $12 million.

Awesome
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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How far would Harbaugh have gone without the Pro Bowlers? Gee, I don't know. He made the most out of Alex Smith. How far would Walsh have gotten without Montana, Rice, or Lott? How far did Singletary get with the same core group of players in a weaker NFC West? Gotta love how in recent weeks Harbaugh's value to the team has been questioned. Because he's just sooooooooo replaceable. Just because you provide a painter with the best tools, doesn't mean he knows how to utilize them correctly.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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That was a good read. And for the record, I like Gruden as a HC but in no way, shape or form would I give him any more power or control than I would give Harbaugh which for the record would be minimal at best.

Baalke baby!!!!!

Great to see Boldin re-signed even though im guessing that its more likely to be a one year deal with a "dummy" second year but have to wait and see the details.

While its just reports, its said that Kaepernick is looking for a whopping $18m a year. I would laugh in his face as I walk out of the room. My personal feeling right now is for Baalke to go all in for 2014 with the hopes of winning the Super Bowl and then decide on what to do with Harbaugh, Kaepernick, Crabtree and others.

If they were to win the Super Bowl next season, I wouldnt have any problem going either way in regards to paying them what they want or franchise/trade them away. Even though I'll admit that I would probably lean towards trading them away/letting them go. Long term, its just not worth the money and bullcrap especially when we have a great overall team and with all the draft picks we have this year and im sure we'll pick up a few for next year, we'll be fine.
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