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Old 03-21-2009, 02:18 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
The fact that he has below average leg explosion is scary. I didn't expect it...and in the broad and vert, Brown scored abnormally lower than was expected.
From: http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/16/delb...ows-off-speed/

Quote:
Everette Brown (6-1 7/8, 256 pounds). He turned in a 31-inch vertical leap and a 9-foot, 9-inch broad jump, but he otherwise stood on his numbers from the combine.
What's the average? Those numbers are lower than DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman's combine results but to say that those are below average is a bit of an overstatement.
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm still hoping for Everette Brown at 10 with Oher and Jenkins second and third respectively.
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Old 03-21-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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If we take BPA at either tackle, olb, DB, WR then I will be happy.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I think i'd rather have a freak on film, and an "average" guy in shorts. Than a guy who spends the better part of his senior year prepping for the combine.

Same thing goes for Andre Smith. Maybe i'm just blinded by the awe that is Mike Singletary, but I think any red flag raised by Smith can be lowered by our head coach. So all this BS surrounding HIS combine does not outweigh the way HE played either.

Can you guys imagine what Jerry Rice would have looked like at the combine? Scary average may have been the best he could hope for. At the end of the day, football is football.
I mean its not that simple.

The reason they have the combine and pro day workouts is because there is a huge discrepancy in talent levels between college and pros.

Do you think every guy who has dominated in college has come in a dominated in the pros? The speed of the game is entirely different.
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Old 03-21-2009, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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What's the average? Those numbers are lower than DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman's combine results but to say that those are below average is a bit of an overstatement.
I'm not saying it will prevent him from being a great player. I'm saying that when evaluating draft value, his numbers are well below those in competition as DE/OLB tweener.

Everette Brown - 31" Vertical - 9'9" Broad (9'6" at Combine)
Brian Orakpo - 39.5" Vertical - Unable to find Broad Jump result
Aaron Maybin - 40" Vertical - 10'10" Broad
Larry English - 36" Vertical - Unable to find Broad Jump result
Connor Barwin - 40.5" Vertical - 10'8" Broad
Michael Johnson - 38.5" Vertical - 10'8" Broad
Lawrence Sidbury - 35" Vertical - 10' Broad
Cody Brown - 36.5" Vertical - 10' Broad

Brown's Jump results are significantly below what others at his position scored. His 31" Vertical is similar to OL Jonathan Luigs 31", Michael Oher and Andy Levitre 30.5". His broad jump is similar to 2nd day prospects Pannel Egboh and Will Davis 9'8"

Again, I'm in NO WAY saying this will prevent him from being a high pick or a great NFL player. I'm simply stating that it may very well cause GMs to question his value as a top-10 pick.
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
I'm not saying it will prevent him from being a great player. I'm saying that when evaluating draft value, his numbers are well below those in competition as DE/OLB tweener.

Everette Brown - 31" Vertical - 9'9" Broad (9'6" at Combine)
Brian Orakpo - 39.5" Vertical - Unable to find Broad Jump result
Aaron Maybin - 40" Vertical - 10'10" Broad
Larry English - 36" Vertical - Unable to find Broad Jump result
Connor Barwin - 40.5" Vertical - 10'8" Broad
Michael Johnson - 38.5" Vertical - 10'8" Broad
Lawrence Sidbury - 35" Vertical - 10' Broad
Cody Brown - 36.5" Vertical - 10' Broad

Brown's Jump results are significantly below what others at his position scored. His 31" Vertical is similar to OL Jonathan Luigs 31", Michael Oher and Andy Levitre 30.5". His broad jump is similar to 2nd day prospects Pannel Egboh and Will Davis 9'8"

Again, I'm in NO WAY saying this will prevent him from being a high pick or a great NFL player. I'm simply stating that it may very well cause GMs to question his value as a top-10 pick.
That's also nothing that a year on pro lifting routines can't fix.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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Alright guys well I think it's time to re-evaluate our needs after some of our roster moves.

DE/OLB - Now that we are switching to a full time 3-4, and will have Manny playing a true 3-4 OLB role I don't know that this is a round one need anymore. I think we need to grab a guy in round two or three for depth especially with Manny's healthy issues. First round though? If that guy is BPA nothing wrong with it but maybe it is not necessary anymore.

OT - Even if Marvel Smith accepts our offer we still need to bring in a young tackle. I think this needs to be our first round pick.

FS - Goldson has been anounced as the starter. Reggie Smith has been moved here and we also signed Jimmy Williams another young FS. I really think those events take FS out of the first day need area and we could adress it on the second day.

ILB - Re-singing Spikes was great but we need to grab his replacement sometime in the draft.

CB - It sounds like Tarrell Brown will be starting next year, and i'm not sure if that means Walt will be the nickel or he will be released. First day pick? I'm not sure yet, but it might not hurt to bring another guy in.

NT - I like ICE being moved back to NT that is his best spot. I think he and Franklin will provide a very solid NT rotation. If Raji falls to us do we take him? If there is an OT on the board I say no, but this will be an interesting thing to look at. It could be risky taking him, since we would have around 10 mil in guarenteed money in two NT's.

WR - The Brandon Jones signing was a nice one, but either way if Issac returns or not it sounds like Scotty wants to add another one via the draft. This will probably be a late round pick.

TE - We didn't bring back Bajmea or bring in Tony Curtis (yet?) If we don't bring either of those two guys in we need to take a blocking TE on the second day. I am eyeing the guy from UNC.

RB - This pick could end up being as high as the second round at this point. No doubt that we will bring someone in.

QB - Since Alex is back I think this pushes QB to the late rounds if we take one at all.

My draft breakdown at this point looks something like this.

1. OT
2. DE/OLB
3. RB
4. ILB
5. CB
6. ILB
7. TE

plus probably a WR, and maybe a QB with our two comp picks. What do you guys think?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Looks like a good plan, Menardo. If Oher is the pick at #10, does he switch to RT or is Staley moved back?
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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DE/OLB - Now that we are switching to a full time 3-4, and will have Manny playing a true 3-4 OLB role I don't know that this is a round one need anymore. I think we need to grab a guy in round two or three for depth especially with Manny's healthy issues. First round though? If that guy is BPA nothing wrong with it but maybe it is not necessary anymore.
I agree and the value of potential players in round 2 and 3 looks promising. The "tweener" 3-4 OLB position is one of the deepest in this years class. With that said, if Scotty Mac believes that an "elite" pass rusher is available at #10 I think he's the pick.

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OT - Even if Marvel Smith accepts our offer we still need to bring in a young tackle. I think this needs to be our first round pick.
It would be difficult to imagine the #10 pick making more money than Joe Staley and sitting the bench behind a newly signed FA. Marvel Smith as depth behind Andre Smith sounds really nice, however. I wouldn't be surprised if a player like Cornelius Lewis or TJ Lang is the pick in day 2 to groom behind Marvel should he sign.

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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
FS - Goldson has been anounced as the starter. Reggie Smith has been moved here and we also signed Jimmy Williams another young FS. I really think those events take FS out of the first day need area and we could adress it on the second day.
Completely agree. It'll be interesting to see just where Reggie Smith and Jimmy Williams spend most of their time (SS or FS), however. Depth is needed badly at whichever position isn't filled by those guys.

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ILB - Re-singing Spikes was great but we need to grab his replacement sometime in the draft.
The team has virtually NOONE behind Willis and Spikes. I would be upset if this position isn't addressed with someone that could potentially play right away. My preferences in order... Frantz Joseph, Jasper Brinkley, Scott McKillop, Worrell Williams, Jason Phillips.

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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
CB - It sounds like Tarrell Brown will be starting next year, and i'm not sure if that means Walt will be the nickel or he will be released. First day pick? I'm not sure yet, but it might not hurt to bring another guy in.
This is the position that is really intriguing me. Harris is nearing retirement, Strickland is unsigned, Spencer is returning from an ACL, Hudson has shown NOTHING and Reggie Smith has been moved to safety. It wouldn't surprise me if Malcolm Jenkins becomes a strong option at #10, which goes against everything I would've thought a few weeks ago.

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NT - I like ICE being moved back to NT that is his best spot. I think he and Franklin will provide a very solid NT rotation. If Raji falls to us do we take him? If there is an OT on the board I say no, but this will be an interesting thing to look at. It could be risky taking him, since we would have around 10 mil in guarenteed money in two NT's.
Manusky's utilization of a 1-Gap penetrating style of NT produced MUCH better results from Franklin. I believe Sopoaga fits that style much better as well. I wouldn't even consider adding someone to the mix unless Raji is still on the board.

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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
WR - The Brandon Jones signing was a nice one, but either way if Issac returns or not it sounds like Scotty wants to add another one via the draft. This will probably be a late round pick.
Agree. Although the top several guys are very intriguing, I don't feel McCloughan will pull the trigger on a WR until the 2nd day.

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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
TE - We didn't bring back Bajmea or bring in Tony Curtis (yet?) If we don't bring either of those two guys in we need to take a blocking TE on the second day. I am eyeing the guy from UNC.
Beautiful. Richard Quinn is PRECISELY whom I envision as well. Hopefully the 49ers won't have to use anything higher than a 7th on him, but we'll see. If he's not available I wouldn't be against making a blocking TE a priority in post-draft UDFA.

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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
RB - This pick could end up being as high as the second round at this point. No doubt that we will bring someone in.
I believe McSing values this 2nd RB very highly. McCloughan has stated that he wants a guy that will contribute on ST as well as 10-15 carries a game but has the ability to be an every down back should Gore go down. I can't see too many of those types of players outside of round 3. Rashad Jennings, Andre Brown, Shonne Green being good examples.

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QB - Since Alex is back I think this pushes QB to the late rounds if we take one at all.
Whether we, as fans, like it or not, I truly believe that McCloughan and company have a TON of faith in Alex Smith. With that said, I still believe they will protect themselves by adding a later round project, Stephen McGee, Nate Davis, and Rudy Carpenter stand out to me.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Looks like a good plan, Menardo. If Oher is the pick at #10, does he switch to RT or is Staley moved back?
Yes Oher would slide over to RT if he was drafted.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Discussing our needs, assuming Smith signs

OT- This won't be a huge need if Smith signs. I know hes 30 and injury prone, but if we sign him its to start. We wont draft someone in the top 10 to backup Smith, and we wont sign Smith to backup our top 10 pick. Im not entirely sure why were going after him anyways- he just seems like another Jonas Jennings. It could indicate that McCloughan doesn't like the tackle class this year if he's willing to sign someone like Smith. Projected draft range- Rounds 3-5 (assuming Smith signs)

QB- McCloughan loves Smith. Hill's earned his shot at the starting job. This will be a late round pick to battle for the 3rd QB spot. Projected draft range- Rounds 5-7

RB- Gore is a good back but if we want a run first offense, getting a 2nd back is a big priority. McCloughan has said he wants someone to take 10-12 carries a game, contribute on special teams, and start if he needs to. So this will be a very early pick. Pick 10? Unlikely, but if someone like Moreno or Wells is the clear cut BPA well take them. Project draft range- Rounds 1-4.

WR- This will be a mid-late pick regardless of whether Bruce comes back or not. Jones was signed to a decent contract, Morgan showed some good things, Hill progressed, and Battle is a decent vet. Projected draft range- Rounds 4-7 (potentially none)

NT- McCloughan seems content with the 6 DL we have. I still think we could benefit by adding Raji at 10 or Brace at 43. Nose Tackle is a very important position and if Raji is there, we need to pounce. Project draft range- Rounds 1-7 (yeah, we could go anywhere at this position)

OLB- I have faith in Lawson, Haralson showed some good things, and Jay Moore/Ahmad Brooks will compete for the 4th OLB spot. We still need a pass rusher. Projected draft range- Rounds 1-3.

FS/CB- Reggie Smith was moved to FS as we all know. He was a 3rd round pick who played all last year as a CB. Its like adding another 3rd round pick basically. We wont add any safeties. Corners? We'll probably need to draft someone late. Projected draft range- Rounds 5-7

So with that said, ill present a mock draft on how i would address our needs in the draft (assuming M Smith signs of course)

R1- B.J. Raji, NT
R2- Donald Brown, RB
R3- Lawrence Sidbury, OLB
R4- Andrew Gardner, OT
R5- Frantz Joseph, ILB
R5COMP- Joe Burnett, CB
R6- Taurus Johnson, WR
R6COMP- Tyler Lorenzon, QB
R7- Richard Quinn, TE
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Yes Oher would slide over to RT if he was drafted.
I would prefer that Staley stay at LT. I hate moving people back and forth like that because I think it stunts progression. Also, about midseason and on, he was looking great once he got used to the switch.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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I would prefer that Staley stay at LT. I hate moving people back and forth like that because I think it stunts progression. Also, about midseason and on, he was looking great once he got used to the switch.
That's what I said.....
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Discussing our needs, assuming Smith signs

OT- This won't be a huge need if Smith signs. I know hes 30 and injury prone, but if we sign him its to start. We wont draft someone in the top 10 to backup Smith, and we wont sign Smith to backup our top 10 pick. Im not entirely sure why were going after him anyways- he just seems like another Jonas Jennings. It could indicate that McCloughan doesn't like the tackle class this year if he's willing to sign someone like Smith. Projected draft range- Rounds 3-5 (assuming Smith signs)

QB- McCloughan loves Smith. Hill's earned his shot at the starting job. This will be a late round pick to battle for the 3rd QB spot. Projected draft range- Rounds 5-7

RB- Gore is a good back but if we want a run first offense, getting a 2nd back is a big priority. McCloughan has said he wants someone to take 10-12 carries a game, contribute on special teams, and start if he needs to. So this will be a very early pick. Pick 10? Unlikely, but if someone like Moreno or Wells is the clear cut BPA well take them. Project draft range- Rounds 1-4.

WR- This will be a mid-late pick regardless of whether Bruce comes back or not. Jones was signed to a decent contract, Morgan showed some good things, Hill progressed, and Battle is a decent vet. Projected draft range- Rounds 4-7 (potentially none)

NT- McCloughan seems content with the 6 DL we have. I still think we could benefit by adding Raji at 10 or Brace at 43. Nose Tackle is a very important position and if Raji is there, we need to pounce. Project draft range- Rounds 1-7 (yeah, we could go anywhere at this position)

OLB- I have faith in Lawson, Haralson showed some good things, and Jay Moore/Ahmad Brooks will compete for the 4th OLB spot. We still need a pass rusher. Projected draft range- Rounds 1-3.

FS/CB- Reggie Smith was moved to FS as we all know. He was a 3rd round pick who played all last year as a CB. Its like adding another 3rd round pick basically. We wont add any safeties. Corners? We'll probably need to draft someone late. Projected draft range- Rounds 5-7

So with that said, ill present a mock draft on how i would address our needs in the draft (assuming M Smith signs of course)

R1- B.J. Raji, NT
R2- Donald Brown, RB
R3- Lawrence Sidbury, OLB
R4- Andrew Gardner, OT
R5- Frantz Joseph, ILB
R5COMP- Joe Burnett, CB
R6- Taurus Johnson, WR
R6COMP- Tyler Lorenzon, QB
R7- Richard Quinn, TE
We really need to adress OT in the first two rounds so that we can get a guy that's ready to start day one.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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That's what I said.....
I'm aware; I just wanted to show that I agree.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm aware; I just wanted to show that I agree.
Oh ok just seemed like you might have mis-read my post.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Oh ok just seemed like you might have mis-read my post.
I just worry that if they took Andre at #10 that they'd make him LT from the start and an unproven guy would be protecting our QB's blindside.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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I just worry that if they took Andre at #10 that they'd make him LT from the start and an unproven guy would be protecting our QB's blindside.
I would hope our FO is smarter than that. I think they are.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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I hope for a lot of things but that doesnt mean it happens haha.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Great post from Menardo. As far as the first round goes, and IMO O-line is our biggest need, but given the amount of talent there is in the 2nd round, should we go DE/OLB first then OT 2nd? The debate is there, I'm throwing it out there for discussion.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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R1- B.J. Raji, NT
R2- Donald Brown, RB
R3- Lawrence Sidbury, OLB
R4- Andrew Gardner, OT
R5- Frantz Joseph, ILB
R5COMP- Joe Burnett, CB
R6- Taurus Johnson, WR
R6COMP- Tyler Lorenzon, QB
R7- Richard Quinn, TE
Raji is probably the only player (OK, maybe E. Brown) that I'd take ahead of one of the 4 top OTs (I'm not counting Curry cause he's the #1 player on my board and he won't sniff the #10 pick).
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Great post from Menardo. As far as the first round goes, and IMO O-line is our biggest need, but given the amount of talent there is in the 2nd round, should we go DE/OLB first then OT 2nd? The debate is there, I'm throwing it out there for discussion.
There are far more promising 3-4 OLBs potentially available at #43 than there are OTs.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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We really need to adress OT in the first two rounds so that we can get a guy that's ready to start day one.
If the 49ers sign Marvel Smith he would most likely start day one.

Although the thought of having Staley and Andre Smith at tackle with Marvel Smith as the #1 backup at either position is sexy.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Brace at 43.
Ron Brace has virtually no upside as a penetrating style one-gapper. If he were drafted in the Manusky system, I could see McCloughan making him a DE. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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i would love if things fell this way:

1. Andre Smith
2. Conner Barwin
3. Rashad Jennings


6 or 7. Jasonzzz Boltuszzz
don't know about the rest.
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