San Francisco 49ers Discussion - Page 92

phlysac · 03-22-2009, 12:38 AM

DE looks like it may potentially be a depth issue. Ray McDonald had another surgery on the same knee that caused him to miss significant time as a Florida Gator. Might not be a short-term concern.

dan77733 · 03-22-2009, 02:54 AM

Here's my view on a position by position basis -

QB - Everyone here already knows that I want Hill to be the starter period. I have no interest in seeing us draft a QB at #10 or trade #10 for Cutler. Hill, Smith and Huard doesnt bother me at all. All I want is for Hill to start from week one for the season and see how he does throughout the course of the season.

RB - Gore is set as the starter. I'm hoping that Clayton can make it past the final 53 and be the backup. Can Robinson run the ball or is he just a trick play type player? If Robinson is just a trick play type player, what's the point in keeping him? I just hope that if we do draft a backup RB, he doesnt knock Clayton off the roster in favor of Robinson.

FB - Norris being resigned solves this position for the time being and thankfully, should eliminate Keasey who I never liked to begin with.

WR - I'm hoping that Bruce doesnt come back and retires. I want to see Morgan and Hill as the starters with Jones in the slot and Zeigler makig the team. If we draft a WR, I hope its not until day two because drafting a WR early will only take away playing time from the other guys and thats what I dont want to see happen.

TE - Davis is set as the starter and im hoping that he gets lined up in the slot because I think that he can create a lot of mismatches in our favor. Walker is good as the backup and if Bajema is still a FA, wouldnt it be better to just re-sign him and use the late round draft pick on a different position?

C - Heitmann is set as the starter with Wallace as the backup.

OG - Rachal and Baas appear to be the starters with Snyder being the main backup. I would still draft an OG in the later rounds for depth.

OT - Staley is set at LT. I would keep Sims just as a backup but im still hoping that we can draft our starting RT in the first or second round. Jennings better be gone sooner rather than later and im hoping that Marvel Smith declines our offer because I dont want him to start at RT only so we can replace him in a year or two.

K and P - Are both set with Nedney and Lee respectively.

NT - Sopoaga will hopefully start with Franklin as the backup but I do want to see us draft a NT on the second day.

DE - Justin Smith is set while im hoping that Balmer will start opposite him. McDonald is the main backup along with FA signee Demetric Evans.

LB - Lawson is set as a starter and im hoping that they have him pass rush a lot more than what he has. And im pretty sure that I read it here somewhere that he added weight? What's his weight now and could he play DE in the 4-3? Haralson seems to be the other OLB but im hoping for Everette Brown at #10 the most. On the inside, Willis is obviously set as is Spikes but there's no one who could take over if one of those four gets injured. Hopefully, we'll draft an OLB and an ILB at some point just for depth if we dont get Brown at #10.

CB - Clements is set. Brown, Spencer, Strickland and Hudson will all be in the mix to start opposite Nate but if Brown is gone, Malcolm Jenkins would be a great pick to start opposite Clements. I personally would let Harris leave already as I want the younger guys to play opposite Clements. A wildcard here is FA signee Jimmy Williams as im sure he'll get some looks at CB during mini-camp, OTA's and training camp.

SS - While I know some dont like him or whatever, I have no problem seeing Lewis start at SS like he has the last two seasons.

FS - I'm hoping that Smith beats out Goldson for the starting spot. With Smith being moved to FS and Williams, safety is no longer a priority.

Overall -

1) Pass Rushing OLB opposite Lawson
2) Starting RT opposite Staley
3) Starting CB opposite Clements
4) Backup RB
5) Backup ILB
6) Backup OG
7) Backup NT

If we can get two out of the top three with our first two draft picks, I will be a very happy camper.

phlysac · 03-22-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

RB - Gore is set as the starter. I'm hoping that Clayton can make it past the final 53 and be the backup. Can Robinson run the ball or is he just a trick play type player? If Robinson is just a trick play type player, what's the point in keeping him? I just hope that if we do draft a backup RB, he doesnt knock Clayton off the roster in favor of Robinson.

You can't underestimate Robinson's value on ST. That is why McCloughan emphasized that he's looking for a RB that can excel on ST. Until the 49ers add another to the roster, Robinson appears to be that guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

Bajema is still a FA, wouldnt it be better to just re-sign him and use the late round draft pick on a different position?

It is a possibility but the price tag on a late-round draft pick or UDFA is significantly lower than what Bajema will command. Why pay more money for a 3rd string blocking specialist?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

OG - Rachal and Baas appear to be the starters with Snyder being the main backup. I would still draft an OG in the later rounds for depth.

I think the 49ers would like to find a player that provides depth at both tackle AND guard, much the way Adam Snyder does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

OT - Staley is set at LT. I would keep Sims just as a backup but im still hoping that we can draft our starting RT in the first or second round. Jennings better be gone sooner rather than later and im hoping that Marvel Smith declines our offer because I dont want him to start at RT only so we can replace him in a year or two.

Barry Sims is outright awful. Marvel Smith would be a tremendous upgrade, regardless how long he is on the roster. Jennings is gone, he just hasn't been cut yet. He was asked not to report to minicamp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

NT - Sopoaga will hopefully start with Franklin as the backup but I do want to see us draft a NT on the second day.

Why have 3 nose tackles? If a NT is drafted, ICE will move back to DE. Everything seems to point to Franklin being a better NT than Sopoaga.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

DE - Justin Smith is set while im hoping that Balmer will start opposite him. McDonald is the main backup along with FA signee Demetric Evans.

McDonald may not be a significant contributor for a while. He's now had multiple surgeries on the same knee and may not even be able to participate by training camp. Sopoaga is currently the starter, along with Justin Smith at DE.

The key is Balmer. If he starts to shine, that will allow for more flexibility. Franklin is in the final year of his contract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

LB - Lawson is set as a starter and im hoping that they have him pass rush a lot more than what he has. And im pretty sure that I read it here somewhere that he added weight? What's his weight now and could he play DE in the 4-3? Haralson seems to be the other OLB but im hoping for Everette Brown at #10 the most. On the inside, Willis is obviously set as is Spikes but there's no one who could take over if one of those four gets injured. Hopefully, we'll draft an OLB and an ILB at some point just for depth if we dont get Brown at #10.

Everything seems to state that Lawson will be utilized as a pass rusher this season. Much differently than he'd been used under Nolan. He is now 250 lbs. The 49ers will NOT be a 4-3. Might as well not even consider for the near future. Nolan ran ALOT more 4-3 sets than Manusky will. The priority of LB prospects in the draft depends highly on how satisfied McSing is with the likes of Jay Moore and Ahmad Brooks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

CB - Clements is set. Brown, Spencer, Strickland and Hudson will all be in the mix to start opposite Nate but if Brown is gone, Malcolm Jenkins would be a great pick to start opposite Clements. I personally would let Harris leave already as I want the younger guys to play opposite Clements. A wildcard here is FA signee Jimmy Williams as im sure he'll get some looks at CB during mini-camp, OTA's and training camp.

Strickland may not be back, Hudson hasn't shown anything, and Spencer is returning from an ACL. Cutting Walt Harris seems ridiculous. Just because he's the oldest doesn't mean he has the least talent. His game is still superior to that of everyone sans Tarell Brown and Clements. Jimmy Williams won't be used as a CB. That experiment already failed miserably in Atlanta. He will be depth at both safety positions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

SS - While I know some dont like him or whatever, I have no problem seeing Lewis start at SS like he has the last two seasons.

Lewis will be the starter at SS. I'm unsure why anyone wouldn't agree with that. He was one of the more consistent defenders for the 49ers. The problem was depth. The 49ers are now using both Jimmy Williams and Reggie Smith at SS.

dan77733 · 03-22-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

You can't underestimate Robinson's value on ST. That is why McCloughan emphasized that he's looking for a RB that can excel on ST. Until the 49ers add another to the roster, Robinson appears to be that guy.

Maybe, Clayton can be that guy if given the chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

It is a possibility but the price tag on a late-round draft pick or UDFA is significantly lower than what Bajema will command. Why pay more money for a 3rd string blocking specialist?

True but with Bajema still a UFA, im sure that his price has come down and the reason why I would re-sign him over a using a late round draft pick or signing an UDFA is because he already knows the offense and doesnt have to learn anything from scratch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

I think the 49ers would like to find a player that provides depth at both tackle AND guard, much the way Adam Snyder does.

I would have no problem with that happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Barry Sims is outright awful. Marvel Smith would be a tremendous upgrade, regardless how long he is on the roster. Jennings is gone, he just hasn't been cut yet. He was asked not to report to minicamp.

Smith would be an upgrade over Sims but I dont see him being better than who we could draft in the first or second round. Personally, if we're going to release Jennings, I dont see the point in signing Smith. If we can draft another OG/OT backup, we could release Sims and stay with Snyder and the draft pick as the backups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Why have 3 nose tackles? If a NT is drafted, ICE will move back to DE. Everything seems to point to Franklin being a better NT than Sopoaga.

McDonald may not be a significant contributor for a while. He's now had multiple surgeries on the same knee and may not even be able to participate by training camp. Sopoaga is currently the starter, along with Justin Smith at DE.

The key is Balmer. If he starts to shine, that will allow for more flexibility. Franklin is in the final year of his contract.

Drafting a NT would give us depth and allow us to let Franklin leave next year if he demands too much money. No reason to move Sopoaga back to DE because after all, the drafted player would be a rookie and third stringer. Drafting a backup 3-4 DE would be a smart move considering the health status of McDonald.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Everything seems to state that Lawson will be utilized as a pass rusher this season. Much differently than he'd been used under Nolan. He is now 250 lbs. The 49ers will NOT be a 4-3. Might as well not even consider for the near future. Nolan ran ALOT more 4-3 sets than Manusky will. The priority of LB prospects in the draft depends highly on how satisfied McSing is with the likes of Jay Moore and Ahmad Brooks.

I really hope that Lawson will be used more as a pass rusher. Has Moore even played the last two seasons? Brooks has potential but I doubt that he'll ever reach it. Re-signing Spikes pretty much says how McCloughan anad Singletary feel about the rest of the LB core. We should still draft an OLB and an ILB at some point during the draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Strickland may not be back, Hudson hasn't shown anything, and Spencer is returning from an ACL. Cutting Walt Harris seems ridiculous. Just because he's the oldest doesn't mean he has the least talent. His game is still superior to that of everyone sans Tarell Brown and Clements. Jimmy Williams won't be used as a CB. That experiment already failed miserably in Atlanta. He will be depth at both safety positions.

Just because the Williams experiment at CB failed in ATL doesnt mean that the same thing would happen in SF. I would only release Harris if we draft Jenkins. I would re-sign Strickland and have him compete with the others for the NB and DB spots if we draft Jenkins. Otherwise, I would most likely keep Harris for the time being.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Lewis will be the starter at SS. I'm unsure why anyone wouldn't agree with that. He was one of the more consistent defenders for the 49ers. The problem was depth. The 49ers are now using both Jimmy Williams and Reggie Smith at SS.

I dont know why some here arent happy with Lewis at SS but he's one of my favorite 49ers. I'm still surprised that we released Keith Lewis considering we needed depth but signing Williams and moving Smith back to SS/FS made up for it.

Brent · 03-22-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

Maybe, Clayton can be that guy if given the chance.

If he hasnt broken through by now, why would continually mention taking a big RB in the draft?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

True but with Bajema still a UFA, im sure that his price has come down and the reason why I would re-sign him over a using a late round draft pick or signing an UDFA is because he already knows the offense and doesnt have to learn anything from scratch.

Two things about this, Bajema's cost at veteran's minimum would be more than a draft pick. Also, he doesnt know the offense because we have a new offensive playbook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

Drafting a NT would give us depth and allow us to let Franklin leave next year if he demands too much money.

The pickings are slim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

Has Moore even played the last two seasons?

Spent the last two seasons on IR. The Niners can't cut players who are rehabbing from football injuries, which has kept him on the team long enough to get healthy and practice with the team this Spring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733

Just because the Williams experiment at CB failed in ATL doesnt mean that the same thing would happen in SF. I would only release Harris if we draft Jenkins.

Why would we keep Jimmy Williams, who hasnt proved he's any good at cornerback over Walt Harris who played well last year? Just because he's old doesnt mean he's not productive.

YAYareaRB · 03-23-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

DE/OLB - Now that we are switching to a full time 3-4, and will have Manny playing a true 3-4 OLB role I don't know that this is a round one need anymore. I think we need to grab a guy in round two or three for depth especially with Manny's healthy issues. First round though? If that guy is BPA nothing wrong with it but maybe it is not necessary anymore. Connor Barwin, Cincy

OT - Even if Marvel Smith accepts our offer we still need to bring in a young tackle. I think this needs to be our first round pick. Michael Oher, Miss

FS - Goldson has been anounced as the starter. Reggie Smith has been moved here and we also signed Jimmy Williams another young FS. I really think those events take FS out of the first day need area and we could adress it on the second day. Chip Vaughn, Wake Forest

ILB - Re-singing Spikes was great but we need to grab his replacement sometime in the draft. Jasper Brinkley, South Carolina

CB - It sounds like Tarrell Brown will be starting next year, and i'm not sure if that means Walt will be the nickel or he will be released. First day pick? I'm not sure yet, but it might not hurt to bring another guy in. Dominique Johnson, Tennessee St.

NT - I like ICE being moved back to NT that is his best spot. I think he and Franklin will provide a very solid NT rotation. If Raji falls to us do we take him? If there is an OT on the board I say no, but this will be an interesting thing to look at. It could be risky taking him, since we would have around 10 mil in guarenteed money in two NT's. Ron Brace, Boston College

WR - The Brandon Jones signing was a nice one, but either way if Issac returns or not it sounds like Scotty wants to add another one via the draft. This will probably be a late round pick. Marko Mitchell, Nevada

TE - We didn't bring back Bajmea or bring in Tony Curtis (yet?) If we don't bring either of those two guys in we need to take a blocking TE on the second day. I am eyeing the guy from UNC. [b]

RB - This pick could end up being as high as the second round at this point. No doubt that we will bring someone in. Rashad Jennings, Liberty

QB - Since Alex is back I think this pushes QB to the late rounds if we take one at all. Stephen McGee, Texas A&M

In quotation marks are the people I want.

Brent · 03-23-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYareaRB

In quotation marks are the people I want.

You mean bold?

phlysac · 03-23-2009, 10:56 AM

Bold... quotation marks... Regardless the 49ers don't have 6 picks in the 1st three rounds to get the guys you want :P

Menardo75 · 03-23-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Bold... quotation marks... Regardless the 49ers don't have 6 picks in the 1st three rounds to get the guys you want :P

.........yet

Brent · 03-23-2009, 09:26 PM

5th and 7th for the two compensatory picks. Lower than I expected.

Madirishman · 03-23-2009, 09:48 PM

Weak sauce!

THIZZorDIE · 03-23-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

5th and 7th for the two compensatory picks. Lower than I expected.

Can you trade compensatory picks? I dont think you can, some higher ones could've put us over the top.

phlysac · 03-23-2009, 10:01 PM

It'd been assumed and reported for weeks that the best they could hope for was a 5th and 6th. Personally, receiving a 7th rounder for Kwame Harris is like highway robbery. The team was better for him not being on it, and now they get a 7th round pick on top of it.

phlysac · 03-23-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THIZZorDIE

Can you trade compensatory picks?

No, you cannot.

thediggler3030 · 03-23-2009, 11:04 PM

So here is my new Niners mock I have made since the comp picks were placed. NOTE: This mock assumes we sign Marvel Smith. Tell me what you think of the players. An alternate is in parenthesis after the pick.

1. Everett Brown, OLB Floria St. (Aron Maybin, OLB Penn St.)
2. Kenny Britt, WR Rutgers (Brian Robiskie, WR Ohio St.)
3. Shonn Greene, RB Iowa (Rashad Jennings, RB Liberty)
4. Fenuki Tupou, OT Oregon (Joel Bell, OT Furman)
5a. Scott McKillop, ILB Pittsburg (Antonio Appleby, ILB Virginia)
5b. Morgan Trent, CB Michigan (Jerraud Powers, CB Auburn)
6. Andy Kemp, OG Wisconsin (Ryan Stancheck, OG W. Virginia)
7a. Jeremy Navarre, DL Maryland (Desmond Bryant, DE Harvard)
7b. Rudy Carpenter, QB Arizona St. (Todd Boeckman, QB Ohio St.)

thediggler3030 · 03-23-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THIZZorDIE

Can you trade compensatory picks? I dont think you can, some higher ones could've put us over the top.

Naw you cant trade them. I'm happy with the two :D

Menardo75 · 03-24-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thediggler3030

So here is my new Niners mock I have made since the comp picks were placed. NOTE: This mock assumes we sign Marvel Smith. Tell me what you think of the players. An alternate is in parenthesis after the pick.

1. Everett Brown, OLB Floria St. (Aron Maybin, OLB Penn St.)
2. Kenny Britt, WR Rutgers (Brian Robiskie, WR Ohio St.)
3. Shonn Greene, RB Iowa (Rashad Jennings, RB Liberty)
4. Fenuki Tupou, OT Oregon (Joel Bell, OT Furman)
5a. Scott McKillop, ILB Pittsburg (Antonio Appleby, ILB Virginia)
5b. Morgan Trent, CB Michigan (Jerraud Powers, CB Auburn)
6. Andy Kemp, OG Wisconsin (Ryan Stancheck, OG W. Virginia)
7a. Jeremy Navarre, DL Maryland (Desmond Bryant, DE Harvard)
7b. Rudy Carpenter, QB Arizona St. (Todd Boeckman, QB Ohio St.)

Just cause we sign Marvel Smith doesn't mean we can ignore OT in the first three rounds.

thediggler3030 · 03-24-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

Just cause we sign Marvel Smith doesn't mean we can ignore OT in the first three rounds.

I just think its a deep OT draft. I'm not saying they will put OT off until the second day, just that the Smith signing gives them the option.

Another scenario I had:
1. Everett Brown
2. Jamon Meredith
3. Shonn Greene
4. Kenny McKinley

This would work, but I'm just so tired of having a terrible receiving core. Honestly if Bruce retires, our starting receivers will be Josh Morgan (only 4 career games with over 50 receiving yards) and Brandon Jones (who has never had more than 500 yards in a season).

We have to assume Bruce is going to retire, to at least be prepared for it and I really wasn't impressed with the Jones signing. Our power run game will only fair so well with eight in the box...

Kenny Britt would be an amazing pick up as well. He has all the talent to be a number one WR in the league and he can go down field, with a 17.1 ypc average over his career. He even ran faster than expected, convincing me he will be able to separate in the NFL as well. He can be a deep and red zone threat for us, and can make plans on short passes (which are Hill's forte, lets be honest).

If Britt is there in the second, I want him. I would also be comfortable having this OT scenario:

1. Joe Staley
2. Marvel Smith
3. Fenuki Tupou
4. Sims and Snyder battle

chapo123 · 03-24-2009, 09:59 AM

my mock w/ comp picks

1. everette brown - olb/ de
2. phil loadholt - ot
3. patrick chung ss/fs
4. jeremiah johnson - rb
5. worell williams - ilb
5. brandon gibson - wr
6. myron pryor - dt
7. brian hoyer - qb
7. greg carr - wr

Brent · 03-24-2009, 10:16 AM

I'd be shocked if Patrick Chung fell out of the second round.

phlysac · 03-24-2009, 10:42 AM

I'd be shocked if Phil Loadholt is any better than Kwame Harris.

chapo123 · 03-24-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

I'd be shocked if Phil Loadholt is any better than Kwame Harris.

lmfao wow!

chapo123 · 03-24-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

I'd be shocked if Patrick Chung fell out of the second round.

i think he will. only reason i'm saying that is there really isn't a clear favorite as to who the best safety is. its all opinion. delmas, johnson, or moore. somebody is going to fall thru the rounds. i'm going to assume chung & hamlin are those guys.

chapo123 · 03-24-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

I'd be shocked if Phil Loadholt is any better than Kwame Harris.

to begin with, harris should have stayed an extra year. i knew erickson was blowing it when he traded down to get this bum. loadholt isn't going to be the next orland pace or johnathan ogden but he will be a solid player. i'm sure sing will get him to produce if he was picked up. sd could always go after troy kropog if you like!

king2am · 03-24-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

I'd be shocked if Phil Loadholt is any better than Kwame Harris.

Comparing both as left tackles? I don't think you're off the reservation on that.

Comparing both as right tackles (which I believe Loadholt is 100%)? I think you're nuts.