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Old 04-19-2009, 07:58 PM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
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I don't know why anyone would think it weird for the 49ers to go 8-8 in 2009. They went 7-9 last year with the Mike Nolan/J.T. O'Sullivan for the first half of the season. That alone proves that the rest of the team is better than some believe.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cdf_2108 View Post
I wasn't making a relative statement about the NFC North, NFC South, and AFC West--just that they are the only divisions close to the shittiness of the NFC west.

But now that we're talking about it, I think NFC South is way better than NFC North and AFC West. But NFC North and AFC west is closer than you would think, I'd take the Chiefs over the Lions and the Raiders were a couple close games away from being as good as the Packers. SD has an elite roster, more elite than the Vikings, and Denver and Chicago are not that far off although the Cutler trade will shake things up. Depends on how good Denver's 1st rounders turn out. Nonetheless, I think it's way closer than NFC South vs AFC West/NFC North

Each team in the NFC south has made the playoffs at least once the last 2years
The Bears would beat the Broncos by 3 touchdowns. The Broncos could be one of the 2-3 worst teams in the NFL next year. Ditto the Packers over the Raiders.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Ya we are only the best team in the NFC(can't argue that until next year)
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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The Bears would beat the Broncos by 3 touchdowns. The Broncos could be one of the 2-3 worst teams in the NFL next year. Ditto the Packers over the Raiders.
The bears will be lucky to score 3 TDs against the broncos. Their best receiver is a TE, I don't care if they got Jay "most over hyped QB" Cutler, the Broncos are a talented team with a lot of draft picks and the Bears have one pick in the first 100. At the very worst, the Broncos lose by a TD to the Bears.

And SD could beat every team in the NFC North 8 times out of 10. Packers were 7-9 last year, don't think that's very convincing and their defense got worse and it was already too old. I'm not saying they're worse than the raiders but it's close.

As long as the Vikings have Brad Childress and Tarvaris Jackson at the helm, they're going NOWHERE fast. The AFC west and NFC NOrth both SUCK.

And come on, your division has the LIONS, GG no RE.

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Old 04-19-2009, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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The bears will be lucky to score 3 TDs against the broncos. Their best receiver is a TE, I don't care if they got Jay "most over hyped QB" Cutler, the Broncos are a talented team with a lot of draft picks and the Bears have one pick in the first 100. At the very worst, the Broncos lose by a TD to the Bears.
As much as I hate the Bears they would destroy the Broncos if they played next year. So would the Packers and Vikings.

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And SD could beat every team in the NFC North 8 times out of 10.
Really? Because they lost 2 out of 4 in 2007 and have only gotten worse since then.

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Packers were 7-9 last year, don't think that's very convincing and their defense got worse and it was already too old. I'm not saying they're worse than the raiders but it's close.
We were 6-10 not 7-9, but it's really not close. The Packers would win easily over Oakland. And your previous post about that was very wrong.
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Raiders' defense is statistically better
Actually statistically the Packers defense is better. They were better in points allowed, yards allowed, and run defense. The Raiders were better in pass defense by 1.6 yards per game.
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and I would argue their offensive players have way higher of a ceiling.
Well you'd be wrong. Also unless all their players are going to all of a sudden magically reach their potential next year that doesn't mean ****. The Packers already have a top 10 QB and top 10 WR on the roster. The Raiders don't have players that are capable of doing either.

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Aaron rodgers may be better than Jamarcus now, but you can't argue against Jamarcus' potential.
I absolutely can argue against Russell's potential. I doubt Russell ever has a season as good as Rodgers had last year. Also, week 1 Rodgers will be 25, Russell will be 24. Rodgers might not have hit his potential yet either. And if Russell ever does reach the level of Rodgers it looks like it's not going to be for a few years judging on how he's progressing so far.

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And Michael Bush > Ryan Grant
How the **** do you figure that? I know it's the popular thing to hate on Grant, but seriously?

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As long as the Vikings have Brad Childress and Tarvaris Jackson at the helm, they're going NOWHERE fast. The AFC west and NFC NOrth both SUCK.
Even so they are easily better than 3/4ths of the AFC West and probably better than San Diego too.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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The bears will be lucky to score 3 TDs against the broncos.
Huh, that's funny because we averaged 23.4 points per game last year with Kyle Orton as our QB and John St. Clair as our LT.

Better luck next time champ.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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The NFC West will still be one of the worst divisions in football.

It's also hard to project two years ahead in the NFL (much less one). Yes, talent does develop but talent also fails to develop. NFC West teams will continue to get top 10-15 picks so eventually I would hope they will emerge.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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I think the Niners are one of the worst run organizations in the NFL. I've believed that for years. I believed that a few years ago when they signed Nate Clements and drafted Vernon Davis, I believed it when I said Mike Nolan would be fired and everyone said I was crazy, I believe it now when I say they have HUGE issues at very important positions, and Mike Singletary is being massively overrated as both a talent evaluator and a head coach.

At some point I'm sure all the high picks will help turn them around, but it's a pretty lousy organization.
How many years? Because badly run organizations don't earn five Lombardi trophies or consistent trips to the post season. If you meant since circa 2000 you may have a point. But before that no.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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How many years? Because badly run organizations don't earn five Lombardi trophies or consistent trips to the post season. If you meant since circa 2000 you may have a point. But before that no.
Now honestly, what did you think I meant?

John York took over the 49'ers in 1999. Since then they have been had 8 losing seasons out of 10 and have been through 4 head coaches. That's a trend.

Considering the people that built the Superbowl teams are either long gone or dead, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant at this point. But I do think it speaks to the expectations among some that every year is going to be the year the Niners come back.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Huh, that's funny because we averaged 23.4 points per game last year with Kyle Orton as our QB and John St. Clair as our LT.

Better luck next time champ.
Bad statistic to give because 23.4 points doesn't mean 3 TD, and it also doesn't mean 3 offesnive TD (only time bears can win is when defense/special teams score all their points).

Give me the average offensive TD statistic of the bears last year, and then we'll talk.

Orlando Pace at 33 might not be that much of an improvement and all those redzone interceptions cutler throws as well as the bears failure to reload on offensive players beside culter (and one pick in the 1st 100 isn't promising) might make it tough for you to get 3 offensive TDs per game.

We'll see

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Old 04-19-2009, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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NFC North is still a better division as is the east and south, not necessarily a "laughing stock" but still pretty poor.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Bad statistic to give because 23.4 points doesn't mean 3 TD, and it also doesn't mean 3 offesnive TD (only time bears can win is when defense/special teams score all their points).

Give me the average offensive TD statistic of the bears last year, and then we'll talk.
1. You never said offensive TDs

2. Obviously if they averaged 23.4 they are capable of scoring 3 TDs. That's just an average too. Against a ****** Denver defense and now with a decent QB they could easily score three TDs.

God damn, if you're going to argue don't suck at it.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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1. You never said offensive TDs

2. Obviously if they averaged 23.4 they are capable of scoring 3 TDs. That's just an average too. Against a ****** Denver defense and now with a decent QB they could easily score three TDs.

God damn, if you're going to argue don't suck at it.
Haha, lol, too funny.

Only here will you find a Packer fan defneding the Bears!!!!ZOMGZ
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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It seems like it is a trend for divisions to rise and fall throughout the years...it wasn't too long ago that the NFC South blew, and look at them last year. The same can be said about the AFC West, although it was the earlier part of the decade when they had multiple contenders. I'm sure both the AFC and NFC West will find their ways back to respectability, but there's no way of telling how long it will take.


All of this talk about "my team can beat your team" by throwing out statistics from last year is stupid. You need to look at how one team's personnel matches up against the other. The Bears would most likely kill the Broncos at this point, because they have a capable QB and a good running game, along with an above average defense. The Broncos have none of those. I don't like saying this, but the Packers could probably show most of the AFC West the business, only facing resistance from the Chargers. I say this because San Diego is the only team with enough of a pass rush to get to Rodgers, and their offense is much better than Green Bay's defense.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure both the AFC and NFC West will find their ways back to respectability, but there's no way of telling how long it will take.
we were in the ******* superbowl
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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we were in the ******* superbowl
I didn't say Cardinals...I said NFC West. Your team was good last year, but the rest of your division sucks ass, if you can't already tell.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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1. You never said offensive TDs

2. Obviously if they averaged 23.4 they are capable of scoring 3 TDs. That's just an average too. Against a ****** Denver defense and now with a decent QB they could easily score three TDs.

God damn, if you're going to argue don't suck at it.
Not really, if you average less than 24 points in a game odds are against a team scoring, on average, 3 TD.

Especially one with the redzone skills of the bears and their proclivity to kick field goals.

The most likely scoring distribution is probably 2 TD, 2 FG. And once again, that doesn't discriminate between types of touchdowns (offensive, defensive, special teams).

Why so angry? Oh I know why... you're a packers fan.

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Old 04-19-2009, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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I didn't say Cardinals...I said NFC West. Your team was good last year, but the rest of your division sucks ass, if you can't already tell.
Cardinals > NFC
Cardinals = NFC West
NFC West > NFC
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Cardinals > NFC
Cardinals = NFC West
NFC West > NFC
Judging by the 6-0 record, not so much, lol

Edit: apparently the equals sign just gets wider when you bold it... Bolding the entire line...
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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Not really, if you average less than 24 points in a game, odds are heavily against a team scoring, on average, 3 TD as the only way to get 23 points with 3 TD is with a safety.
Of course scoring 23 a game implies that a team has had 5 drives that got them into a scoring position, which is pretty damn solid, another reason that Orton is underrated. When you consider they had no redzone target last year(they still have none but there is still hope) that is pretty solid. It is not entirely unreasonable to think that a stronger armed QB and the further development of their young WRs and RBs could lead to maybe one more TD, which is 27 a game, which is good and they also have a solid defense.

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Aaron rodgers may be better than Jamarcus now, but you can't argue against Jamarcus' potential.
Cant argue the potential his arm strength provides. Can certainly argue the apparent lack of intelligence, clear lack of work ethic and the questionable accuracy. I didn't like him before the draft for all those reasons and he has done nothing to clear those problems I had. He may yet become a good player but as yet he has shown nothing to suggest he has more potential than Rodgers, who has flashed Franchise QB potential.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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Cardinals > NFC
Cardinals = NFC West
NFC West > NFC
that's a pretty weak argument given that divisional strength requires a high level of competition amongst all teams

when the patriots were running the afc east like it was their job, i would've never said AFC east > AFC, just Patriots > AFC
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Not really, if you average less than 24 points in a game odds are against a team scoring, on average, 3 TD.

Especially one with the redzone skills of the bears and their proclivity to kick field goals.

The most likely scoring distribution is probably 2 TD, 2 FG. And once again, that doesn't discriminate between types of touchdowns (offensive, defensive, special teams).

Why so angry? Oh I know why... you're a packers fan.
Adn that was before the major upgrade at the msot vital position in Football. That, and when you factor in the Broncos lack of defense (may as well only have 8 guys out there) the Bears should be more than fine. 3 TDs is expected, if not more.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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Not only are the majority of NFC and AFC west teams inept, so are many of their fans. :)
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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When you consider they had no redzone target last year(they still have none but there is still hope) that is pretty solid.
I know the stats might not back it up, but Greg Olson is one of the best redzone tight ends in the NFL.
He's 6-5, has a huge reach, and probably the best vertical of any tight end in the NFL this side of Vernon Davis or Antonio Gates (Gates doesn't strike me as much of a leaper, but he does play basketball)
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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I know the stats might not back it up, but Greg Olson is one of the best redzone tight ends in the NFL.
He's 6-5, has a huge reach, and probably the best vertical of any tight end in the NFL this side of Vernon Davis or Antonio Gates (Gates doesn't strike me as much of a leaper, but he does play basketball)
I think after this season we'll be able to see Bennett in that group as well. Potential NBA prospect at one point, and hands are improving.
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