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Old 04-21-2009, 01:40 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
One of these things is not like the other...
its obviously Derrick Thomas cause he is dead
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
he's not hof worthy. but will he get in? yeah.

much to my dismay.

He's already in


here's my test:

would the cowboys have been better with kurt warner in the same time period? i'd say yes.
would the cowboys have been better with matt hasselbeck? about equal.

is matt hasselbeck hof worthy? no.

Aikman retired in like 2002 before either were big time/starters
Troy just did what he had to do to help the team win. If that meant handing it off to Emmitt, he did that. If he was needed to make some throws to win, he could do that too, although that wasn't as often. Throw in the three rings and you've got a HOF
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Its tough to say, I think They would've been the same with Kurt, maybe a little worse, but there is a big dropoff if you go to Hasselbeck. I don't think the Cowboys win 3 superbowls if Hasselbeck is the QB. Maybe one, but no more than that.
the question you have to ask yourself is this:

how good was aikman in those three superbowls

28, he sucked.
30, he was okay, threw for 200 yards and a td.
27, he was good.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Troy just did what he had to do to help the team win. If that meant handing it off to Emmitt, he did that. If he was needed to make some throws to win, he could do that too, although that wasn't as often. Throw in the three rings and you've got a HOF
after your logic, everyone on those teams should make it. they did what they had to to win those superbowls
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Troy just did what he had to do to help the team win. If that meant handing it off to Emmitt, he did that. If he was needed to make some throws to win, he could do that too, although that wasn't as often. Throw in the three rings and you've got a HOF
again, always the question is, do the rings make you HoF worthy?

handing it off to arguably the second greatest RB of all time, and the greatest run blocking OLs of all time... i believe you could plug quite a few good qb's in there and watch them flourish. good qb's do not make the HoF.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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its obviously Derrick Thomas cause he is dead
That is not even close to being funny.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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the question you have to ask yourself is this:

how good was aikman in those three superbowls

28, he sucked.
30, he was okay, threw for 200 yards and a td.
27, he was good.
Its hard to tell how they would do anyway. With Kurt Warner they may have had similar results. but I doubt they'd even get to at least two of those Superbowls with Matt Hasselbeck. I like Hasselbeck too, so that should tell you something...
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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again, always the question is, do the rings make you HoF worthy?

handing it off to arguably the second greatest RB of all time, and the greatest run blocking OLs of all time... i believe you could plug quite a few good qb's in there and watch them flourish. good qb's do not make the HoF.
Rings are what got him in, so yes.

Maybe you could plug somebody else, but he was the QB. He was fortunate enough to end up in that situation
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Interesting question.

I vote "no" on Aikman.

Played well, one of the best winners in his era, but not HOF worthy.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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i think Troy Aikman is about the same case as Terry Bradshaw. Was he really leading these teams to the Superbowl? or did he just not prevent them to not make it there?
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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If Jim Kelly is in the hall of fame, then Aikman goes in no question.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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If Jim Kelly is in the hall of fame, then Aikman goes in no question.
That is a joke, right? Kelly put up much better numbers than Aikman with a much worse supporting cast. Heck, if you judge a QB by wins then Kelly is still much better than Aikman as he had more wins in less starts. Kelly was so much better than Aikman that it isn't even funny.

Aikman, imo, was a decent to good QB that guided an all-time great team. Was he as bad as Bradshaw? No, but he certainly wasn't on the level on someone like Jim Kelly or Steve Young.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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That is a joke, right? Kelly put up much better numbers than Aikman with a much worse supporting cast. Heck, if you judge a QB by wins then Kelly is still much better than Aikman as he had more wins in less starts. Kelly was so much better than Aikman that it isn't even funny.

Aikman, imo, was a decent to good QB that guided an all-time great team. Was he as bad as Bradshaw? No, but he certainly wasn't on the level on someone like Jim Kelly or Steve Young.


I tend to agree... completely
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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That is a joke, right? Kelly put up much better numbers than Aikman with a much worse supporting cast. Heck, if you judge a QB by wins then Kelly is still much better than Aikman as he had more wins in less starts. Kelly was so much better than Aikman that it isn't even funny.

Aikman, imo, was a decent to good QB that guided an all-time great team. Was he as bad as Bradshaw? No, but he certainly wasn't on the level on someone like Jim Kelly or Steve Young.

I'm talking about winning in the playoffs and leading a team, I'm not arguing Kelly as a hall of famer, he is without a doubt. Aikman was the leader of three Super Bowl teams and was a tremendous playoff performer up until 1997.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I think he is HOF caliber. What more do you want the guy to do? He used the talent around him and won a ton of championships. He played extremely well and is one of the best leaders the NFL has seen. He is and should be in.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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I guess the point is... I don't think he played extremely well.
I think he played well. I think he played safe. I think he was a Game Manager to a Great team.

He didn't win games. He just didn't lose them.
That to me... is not the definition of a HOFer
I do agree that he was a great leader. I'll give you that.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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He won games at times, I am not sure where that assumption comes from. He maybe never had to put the team on just his shoulders, but he made some huge plays to clinch games...
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Throwing out hollow cliches like "he was a game manager" or "he didn't win games, he just didn't lose him" are not an argument against Aikman and won't keep him out. The fact is he was the starting QB for a dynasty, went to 6 Pro Bowls and won a Super Bowl MVP. Those type things hold more weight than hollow cliches.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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Stupid thread.

One of the greatest leaders ever. Held his teammates accountable. Was one of the main, if not the main reason that a team with so many ego's and so much publicity was able to succeed and win 3 SB's.

He did exactly what Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer wanted him to do. Don't kid yourself into thinking that Aikman couldn't have put up the same stats as the rest.

Both Aikman and Irvin took a hit to their stats in order to play within the system and succeed in the league. When you have a massive O-line and a great running back, why not use it?

Too many people on these boards weren't around to see and appreciate those Cowboy teams. Too many young people. Hell even I was young, but I was a die hard fan and still own all the DVDs.

Easily HOF worthy. Stats can be used to distort anything, you must take them in combination with winning. Aikman was one of the greatest winners ever in the league.

If Jimmy Johnson hadn't been fired he would have won 4 straight SB's. The guy is a stud.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Brett Favre took equally talented teams (on both sides of the ball) and couldn't beat Aikman.

Yes, Farve had better stats, but he played outside the system to get those stats and look where it got him.

Aikman sacrificed his own numbers for the success of the team.

Does everyone in here honestly believe Aikman was put into the HOF simply because he was a Cowboy or politics? Do some research. The Cowboys have one of the most HoF "snubbed" franchises of all time.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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The fact that he WILL get in should really end this silly debate.

Some of the points being made here make me think you guys were 5 years old when you watched this era of football.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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The fact that he WILL get in should really end this silly debate.

Some of the points being made here make me think you guys were 5 years old when you watched this era of football.
They WERE only 5 years old.

Remember that plenty of posters on this site (maybe the majority) can't even legally consume alcohol yet.

You can't know the greatness of Troy Aikman by looking at his stats.

I'll put it this way -- the QB that Madden slobbers over the most after Farve is Aikman. There is a reason for that.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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I tried to keep out of this thread cause I'm a Cowboy fan that doesn't want to look biased. But Cowboy's media hype hasn't gotten anyone into the Hall of Fame. If that was the case then there would be more than 9 players in the Hall of Fame. I know it looks like I'm biased because I'm a Cowboy fan, but how can a team that has accomplished so much in history have less players in the Hall than teams with lesser wins. Hell there are more Redskins in the Hall of Fame than the Cowboys, but the Cowboys have more Division titles, Playoff wins, Conference Championships, Super Bowl wins, and head to head wins over them. I'll be the first to tell you that I hate the Redskins with a passion, but I'm throwing out facts here.

Aikman deserves to be in the Hall not based on his wins. I don't give QBs credit for team success. He deserves to be in because he stepped up like a Hall of Famer when they needed him to. He just had a great supporting cast around him that dwindled his numbers. But he was a huge factor in winning crucial games when the passing game needed it. There were better quarterbacks than him, but he still was always top 5 in minimum in his prime. If he played on another team he'd have close to 50,000 yards and more touchdowns. Besides if Steve Young can go in first ballot Troy should too. Steve was good too, but you can make a similar argument that he was just in a good offense with a legendary receiver. Besides the real person to argue for is Darren Woodson. I've seen people argue for Brian Dawkins, John Lynch, and Steve Atwater, but Woody deserves to be in just as much, if not more than them. But when his time comes I'm sure people will disregard his role on a top defense that won 3 Super Bowls because "he was only seen as good because of Cowboy media hype."
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:31 PM    (permalink
someone447
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To preface this, I absolutely loathe the Cowboys. I am a Packer fan and I grew up watching the Cowboys beat the Packers in the playoffs.

That being said, Aikman is definitely a HOFer, I don't think he should have been first ballot, but there is no doubt he should be in.

The Packers of the early-mid 90s were no where near as talented as the Cowboys. It wasn't until 96-97 that the Packers had great teams. The Packers of the early 90s were Brett Favre and Sterling Sharpe, and thats it.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:34 PM    (permalink
Nalej
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He IS in already. That's not the debate.
The debate is do you think he deserves to be in.

I'll call him a Game Manager. You can call him a team player.
You can argue all you want of what he COULD have done.
I'll just stick to what he DIDN'T do.
He put up avg stats on a great team.

As for 6 Pro Bowls? I'll go back to T. Holt.
He's been to 7 and been All Pro twice (1st n 2nd team)
Still, Holt needs to prove himself.


Football is a team sport but you go to the HOF based on your indivisual accomplishments... plus rings.
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