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Old 04-22-2009, 04:17 PM    (permalink
fear the elf
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Originally Posted by Kase1 View Post
I can honestly see the Giants using their 1st round pick and pressuring Cleveland to take a deal with a 2nd round or walk...... J-Reese isnt one to get pushed around in a deal, as Sal Pal reported on ESPN 'Kiwi is a deal breaker' plain and simple as that
if that happens, i hope kokinis has the balls to say "go **** yourself"
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES View Post
It will hurt the Giants more to not get BE than to keep Kiwi IMO. Unless they get Boldin
I disagree with this. With kiwi our D should be dominant. Adjusting our passing game to the guys we have we should do enough to keep team's honest against our run and then just ride the running game and D to another superbowl. That's said I would prefer it if we had a true number receiver, but with a summer to adjust I think our passing game would be a lot better than that one which ended the season.

Honestly I hope cleveland keeps demanding a first and kiwi so reese makes a move on boldin who's the better receiver, leader and fit for our team.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with this. With kiwi our D should be dominant. Adjusting our passing game to the guys we have we should do enough to keep team's honest against our run and then just ride the running game and D to another superbowl. That's said I would prefer it if we had a true number receiver, but with a summer to adjust I think our passing game would be a lot better than that one which ended the season.

Honestly I hope cleveland keeps demanding a first and kiwi so reese makes a move on boldin who's the better receiver, leader and fit for our team.
I do not see you guys making the superbowl without a number 1 receiver
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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it's because a lot of people are underestimating how much better our D will be with a healthy osi, better depth inside, a playmaking LB like Boley and more experience for our young secondary. i'm expect this year's giants' D to be the best it's been all decade.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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it's because a lot of people are underestimating how much better our D will be with a healthy osi, better depth inside, a playmaking LB like Boley and more experience for our young secondary. i'm expect this year's giants' D to be the best it's been all decade.
I understand you have a really good defense believe me I know what it is like to want to ride off of defense and a run game. What happens when you play a very good run stopping defense and you have to pass it. What if you are down 3 and it is 3rd and long?? You are going to need someone to be a distraction to get other guys open or to get open to make that catch.
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Just let it go RWO.
We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

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Old 04-22-2009, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Maybe the Browns should just keep Edwards and Quinn and build the offense around them and Joe Thomas. Or am I just talking crazy?
That's just INSANE why would you want to build your team around blue chip building blocks?
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Edwards is going to bolt out of Cleveland the first chance he gets, hence why ManKok is looking to trade him.

But exactly why I wouldn't budge an inch if I'm Reese. Hell no a 1st or Kiwi is involved.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Edwards isn't that good. I would say a 2nd and a 4th for sure. Just like D-Unit said. I don't think he is worth Kiwi AND a 1st. That is just crazy.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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I understand you have a really good defense believe me I know what it is like to want to ride off of defense and a run game. What happens when you play a very good run stopping defense and you have to pass it. What if you are down 3 and it is 3rd and long?? You are going to need someone to be a distraction to get other guys open or to get open to make that catch.
Steve Smith and the Boss are enough for converting third downs. Our receiving core isn't bad, it just doesn't have anyone who demands regular double teams. A team can be successful passing the ball with a good QB and that type of receiving core if the plan for it, our passing game last year was built from plax down, when he was out it just sort of imploded, now hoever we have a full offseason to adjust things.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Well, Edwards wouldn't resign with Cleveland in the first place, IMO, and Mangini wants some compensation for him because he figures he'll be gone either way. Plus, I don't think Mangini is all that big of an Edwards fan as well.

As for Quinn, I don't think Mangini likes him as the QB to build his team around. After spending a year with Favre, I assume he wants more of a strong armed QB who he feels can take the bull by the horns and lead the team. Apparently he loves Sanchez, so why not make the change if you like one, but not the other?
You just described why Mangini is going to fail.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Good I am glad! I couldn't be happier!

Kiwanuka and a first? Are they insane?
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/gia...-are-they.html

News & Notes Update - Newsday - No Deal for Edwards Imminent
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com...774&show_all=1
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I agree that a 1st and Kiwanuka is too much. 2nd and a mid round pick is too low though. Even a 1st by itself is too low. It's basically trading Edwards for a rookie WR who's future prospects are as a #2 (Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt), or something of similar value if it's not a WR picked at 29. It's a first rounder, yeah, but by only 3 slots. 1st and 3rd or something of that value or that range is what Edwards should go for. 1st/5th/Hixon or Manningham would make sense too.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm actually pretty happy. I'd give our 1 or a 2nd, low pick and Hixon.

Smith and Kiwi should not go anywhere, especially not with a pick involved with it. the browns are crazy. use the picks to trade for Q, a better WR. or draft Britt/Nicks, sign a vet FA and see what happens.

Britt and Nicks will be better than Braylon in a couple years anyway
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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Edwards is going to bolt out of Cleveland the first chance he gets, hence why ManKok is looking to trade him.

But exactly why I wouldn't budge an inch if I'm Reese. Hell no a 1st or Kiwi is involved.
You know we can tag him right? Also, for every report out there saying Edwards wants out of Cleveland is a report talking about how he wants to stay here.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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a first and Steve Smith or a first plus a 5th and Hixon would make sense to me. If the Browns want Kiwanuka they would probably have to settle for a 2nd and maybe a later round pick in addition. Browns have more bargaining power right now, they don't have to move Edwards but the Giants will be wanting a #1 WR badly, and Edwards won't be any harder to get than Boldin. If the Browns don't get a first round pick for him then Kiwanuka better be involved.
You guys have don't have more bargaining power...

We are the ONLY team in the bidding.. Who else is there?
Also, reports were that BE doesn't want to stay a brown? He has been working out with the team at all? One would assume with a new HC and GM, you want to be a team leader and impress them by working out with your team mates? Is he doing that? From what I know I would say, so correct me if I am wrong by all means.

We can wait this out, and or just use our 10 picks:

1
2 2s
3 3s
4
2 5s
6
7


and build our team that way. Remember we aren't the 4-12 team here. We can simply just use our picks and build via the draft. You guys have to deal with a player who doesn't want to be there accordingly to reports. Let's put it this way, if you want him so bad, then extend him. Why is he on sale? And why isn't he accepting your contact?

We can wait this out, or say screw it and build from our draft. It's not a big deal. Seems like our fan base and media are having knee jerk reactions to losing Burress, while the franchise is staying level headed.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Why is edwards such a "Threat" Dude only catches 1 out of every 3 passes thrown to him?
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Why is edwards such a "Threat" Dude only catches 1 out of every 3 passes thrown to him?
He has sick potential, but a team shouldn't have to trade alot of compensation based on potential. I want to see production as well. So 1 1000 plus season in his career and pro bowl, and 1 lead the league in drops doesn't warrant a big time price to trade for him..

Let's not forget we gotta pay the guy too. What kind of contract does he want? If we have to break the bank for him, then hell no. He can stay in Cleveland and let them break the bank for him.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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You guys have don't have more bargaining power...

We are the ONLY team in the bidding.. Who else is there?
Also, reports were that BE doesn't want to stay a brown? He has been working out with the team at all? One would assume with a new HC and GM, you want to be a team leader and impress them by working out with your team mates? Is he doing that? From what I know I would say, so correct me if I am wrong by all means.

We can wait this out, and or just use our 10 picks:

1
2 2s
3 3s
4
2 5s
6
7


and build our team that way. Remember we aren't the 4-12 team here. We can simply just use our picks and build via the draft. You guys have to deal with a player who doesn't want to be there accordingly to reports. Let's put it this way, if you want him so bad, then extend him. Why is he on sale? And why isn't he accepting your contact?

We can wait this out, or say screw it and build from our draft. It's not a big deal. Seems like our fan base and media are having knee jerk reactions to losing Burress, while the franchise is staying level headed.
We do have more power because we don't have to move him this year. We can resign or tag him after the season and/or trade him next year or the year after that. Giants are gonna be pressured to add a #1 this year, they know that it's something their offense needs to be great. Remember, the Browns have absolutly nothing at WR after Edwards and it doesn't look like either way that they're gonna pick Crabtree at 5. We have Syndric Steptoe and Joshua Cribbs or David Patten starting with Edwards out of the picture.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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see, the Giants DON'T have to make this move, because we've got 10 draft picks and only one major need. We can move around and play with them. Neither team "has to" make this move
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Maybe the Browns should just keep Edwards and Quinn and build the offense around them and Joe Thomas. Or am I just talking crazy?
Now there's an idea. Too bad the Browns FO is too busying eating bananas and throwing their own feces to bother making good decisions.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
We do have more power because we don't have to move him this year. We can resign or tag him after the season and/or trade him next year or the year after that. Giants are gonna be pressured to add a #1 this year, they know that it's something their offense needs to be great. Remember, the Browns have absolutly nothing at WR after Edwards and it doesn't look like either way that they're gonna pick Crabtree at 5. We have Syndric Steptoe and Joshua Cribbs or David Patten starting with Edwards out of the picture.
So how does that give you more power? You have to pay him still, deal with a player who doesn't want to be there. Is he working with the team now? How do you know he doesn't mail it in because he knows he isn't going to sign long term contract with you guys. These are all important factors.

Our offense doesn't have to be great. Our defense does! That's what wins championships! And we addressed that during FA. We got Boley, Canty, Benard, and couple other depth guys. We don't need to be the Cards passing game or even the Pats. That's where people are messing up in their line of thinking. We are not running the spread here or trying to break records.

Burress shot himself mid season, so we didn't have time to adjust to that while the season is going on. So now a veteran, ex WR coach, in Coughlin, and Gilbride can re work the playbook with Burress gone. Now we don't have to shift our plays to make "X" a valid threat everytime.

Coughlin stresses "balance" in his offense, and he and Gilbride can bring that by changing the playbook, and tweaking reads and ELi's progressions now. Let's put it this way.... When SHockey got hurt, Boss struggled run blocking under the existing running concepts ( power) . That off season we adjusted, and tweaked our running game and implemented Power G. Look what we did last season.

Now Burress is gone, and the coaching staff has time to adjust stuff. It's no where near as bad as the media and knee jerk reaction base base is making it out to me.

And our game is running the ball, and playing great defense. We don't need to be the Cards passing game or Saints passing game here. Smash mouth football and kill other Qbs is our style.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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1,300 yards and 16td's is why Braylon Edwards is the Giants best option and why the Browns (should) have the bargaining power. Britt IMO would be an excellent replacement for Burress, but being a rookie WR chances are the numbers aren't going to matchup to other number 1's around league at the end of this next season and nowhere near the production Edwards could provide. I think the ultimate factor if this trade happens is whether the Giants are trying to win now or down the road(something a Giants fan can answer for me possibly?) Teams in today's league without a true number one have a very slim chance at winning the super-bowl, an even one that had one(Arizona def. did) came up short. I don't see the Giants having many holes, and Edwards has a huge reward potential for the 29th pick and some change(Def not Kiwi also thats too much), so why not make the trade if your team has so many other picks?
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
Britt and Nicks will be better than Braylon in a couple years anyway
silly rutgers fans, the chances of this are slim

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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
We are the ONLY team in the bidding.. Who else is there?
iggles?

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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking
We can wait this out, and or just use our 10 picks:

1
2 2s
3 3s
4
2 5s
6
7


and build our team that way. Remember we aren't the 4-12 team here.
ok, wait it out, and when everyone stacks the box and jacobs goes down with an injury like he always does, we will see how well your offense produces.

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Let's put it this way, if you want him so bad, then extend him. Why is he on sale? And why isn't he accepting your contact?
i don't know the details of the negotiations, but he is still a brown for this year and there is always the franchise tag. he's on sale because he is worth a lot and maybe a team will be willing to part with a 1st rd pick and a good de/olb for him. which is good for us...

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He has sick potential, but a team shouldn't have to trade alot of compensation based on potential.
teams trade a lot based on potential all the time... they are called draft picks.

some things to think about. just playing devils advocate to some stuff that's been said, not necessarily arguing one way or the other.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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You just described why Mangini is going to fail.
Or Succeed. As mentioned, Edwards is almost a lock to leave as soon as he hits free agency. And for all we know, Mangini is 100% correct on Quinn and Sanchez would be a better fit for them.

I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. There's nothing wrong with trying to get the guys that fit your system on your team.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:24 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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silly rutgers fans, the chances of this are slim


really? last I checked neither Nicks or Britt dropped every other pass thrown to them this year...hmmm.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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