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Old 04-26-2009, 04:15 PM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
We traded E. Hobbs (Starting CB/KR Specialist) for Ohrnberger (OG)--????
I agree it is a little strange but in all reality we traded out 4th or 5th CB and #2 KR(after Tate) for a project guard. With Bodden, Springs, Butler, Wheatley etc Hobbs wouldn't see much time this year.
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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I love the Hobbs trade, I've thought he's terrible for awhile, it clears up 2.5 mil in cap space immediately. Plus, he was in a contract year, and likely not have been resigned. This will give Butler Wheatley and Wilhite more playing time and gives us awesome youth at CB.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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We sure are suring up that OL.

F. Joseph please!!!
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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im just so mad. belichick is just throwing away our last few picks..... 3 dts? 3 ol? why not just trade up the picks to get higher in rounds 2 or 3 instead of throwing away your picks
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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I liked this draft. Really liked Brandon Tate. a lot.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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im just so mad. belichick is just throwing away our last few picks..... 3 dts? 3 ol? why not just trade up the picks to get higher in rounds 2 or 3 instead of throwing away your picks
I really like the Myron Pryor pick, but I am puzzled with the Richard selection. We already added to our NT depth with Brace and Pryor, which I love, but I think Richard was not needed.

The OL I can see I guess. I love the Vollmer pick but I really don't know too much about the other guys.

This was not a very flashy draft, but it was smart and will definitely improve the team a lot especially when you consider the money we saved for FA next year with those trades. Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, McKenzie, and Tate are all gamers. I am suprised we didn't look at LB harder, but I guess BB has a lot of faith in who we already have. The McKenzie pick suprised me, he seems pretty similar to Guyton but he is a solid LB so I'm happy with it.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Yeah. Look to the future. Screw talent. Let's get older. I know I have no right to ***** but honestly look at this draft class. Just really doesn't make much sense.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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Meh this draft class was nothing special I dislike trading down but getting like 3 2nd for next year is awesome!
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I like the chung pick but we could have gotten him later...The big tackle from Houston I like too (im way overtired and i can't remember his name right now)...we really needed to get an olb like Barwin or Brown though I dunno wtf that was all about.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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Chung will be solid, but isn't exactly a HUGE upgrade over Sanders.

I think he brings more aggression than Sanders and plays better in space.

BB probably liked Chungs leadership, experience (started 51 games in College), and good character.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Well now I can start hoping that we take Brandon Graham in 2010. I can't believe we passed on Everette Brown and Maualuga multiple times, but we can't do anything about it now. I love the additions of Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, McKenzie, and Tate. We added some quality DL depth, two future starting DBs, a very athletic linebacker, a lot of OL depth, and an explosive young wideout. We didn't get the top flight pass rusher that we all wanted, but we have some youth and talent in the LB corps already and we need those young guys to develop/stay healthy. We are legitimate contenders if we can avoid the injury bug.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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I like the Tyrone McKenzie pick a lot.

I'm glad BB added another Linebacker.

We're one injury away from having the worst LB Corps in the league.... Adding JTaylor is a must now.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Chung will be solid, but isn't exactly a HUGE upgrade over Sanders.

I think he brings more aggression than Sanders and plays better in space.
I like Sanders, he is a tough and smart player but I think Chung is a big-time upgrade. Chung is a lot more athletic, is a much bigger hitter, and is a playmaker. Sanders is a solid player but he isn't a fiery gamechanger like Chung, plus Sanders gets exposed due to his lack of top athleticism a lot. Sanders just got resigned and he will still make an impact, we will run a lot of 3 safety sets and he will be on the field a lot. I love the Chung pick, he is a stud.
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:06 AM    (permalink
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No OLB they draft this year would probably be better than Crable, Redd, etc.

Kind of surprised they didn't draft Maulauga but they know he wouldn't fit maybe. Plus character issues.

Most of their picks are great. Vollmer could be like Marcus McNeil...very athletic guy, moves very well.

Hobbs leaving is addition by subtraction..where were they going to play this guy? KR anyone can run it out to the twenty.

Kindn of surprised they didn't go for Jarron Gilbert either. Seymour is going to need a replacement soon....plus their 4th round guard...why trade up for an UdFA? those guys are a dime a dozen.
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:55 AM    (permalink
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I like Sanders, he is a tough and smart player but I think Chung is a big-time upgrade. Chung is a lot more athletic, is a much bigger hitter, and is a playmaker. Sanders is a solid player but he isn't a fiery gamechanger like Chung, plus Sanders gets exposed due to his lack of top athleticism a lot. Sanders just got resigned and he will still make an impact, we will run a lot of 3 safety sets and he will be on the field a lot. I love the Chung pick, he is a stud.
Thanks for explaining that... Ive been checking his videos from Oregon and the Senior Bowl and youre right, Chung is a LOT more athletic. He was even returning kicks at the Senior Bowl
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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No OLB they draft this year would probably be better than Crable, Redd, etc.
So no linebackers from an extremely deep and talented class at that position would be better than a third round pick that didn't play a down last year and an undrafted free agent? I just can't accept that.

As far as Chung goes, he's a major upgrade over Sanders. Sanders is a depth player and the staff knows it. We were never comfortable with him starting. He'll get his tackles, but they aren't really meaningful. Good backup and special teamer, not a guy you should be comfortable with starting. He's a smart, heady, athletic player. He enrolled in college when he was 16. Didn't play right away like Okoye, but still you gotta be impressed.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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I really like the Myron Pryor pick, but I am puzzled with the Richard selection. We already added to our NT depth with Brace and Pryor, which I love, but I think Richard was not needed.

The OL I can see I guess. I love the Vollmer pick but I really don't know too much about the other guys.

This was not a very flashy draft, but it was smart and will definitely improve the team a lot especially when you consider the money we saved for FA next year with those trades. Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, McKenzie, and Tate are all gamers. I am suprised we didn't look at LB harder, but I guess BB has a lot of faith in who we already have. The McKenzie pick suprised me, he seems pretty similar to Guyton but he is a solid LB so I'm happy with it.
Richard is a DE for the Pats. Pryor was a confusing pick after Brace with Smith and Adams already on the roster (identical players). That was one of the few picks I just didn't like at all.

Bussey was an amazing value. He could take Neal's job. Vollmer is a monster, and was severely underrated. He was not rated as an UDFA by anyone with a clue. The G/C they got replaces Hochstein probably.

Never really thought the Pats needed more than one LB in this draft (OLB or ILB because of their versatility), and they got a really good ILB in McKenzie at a great value spot.

I loved the 2nd round. Chung, Butler, Brace, and Vollmer...they hit on every one of those. They completed their needs by drafting Brandon Tate, who could end up being as good as any WR in this draft.

I did hate trading Hobbs. Essentially trading him for that G/C... I didn't like that one. If they'd kept both 5's and used them wisely, I would've been good with it.

As far as James Sanders goes... It's tough to say any S aside from Ed Reed is much of an upgrade over him because he's got all the tools, but just hasn't put it all together yet... I think Chung is only a slight upgrade, ability-wise, but I think he's got it together a little better. They needed a guy like Chung anyway so they can keep Meriweather at nickel in passing situations.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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As far as James Sanders goes... It's tough to say any S aside from Ed Reed is much of an upgrade over him because he's got all the tools, but just hasn't put it all together yet... I think Chung is only a slight upgrade, ability-wise, but I think he's got it together a little better. They needed a guy like Chung anyway so they can keep Meriweather at nickel in passing situations.
Merriweather won't be playing nickel with all the corners we've brought in. That was part of the deal with bringing in Butler.

Chung is a pretty major upgrade over Sanders. Sanders is ideally a depth player. I wouldn't say he has all the tools at all. He's pretty much league average across the board.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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We will need to see a solid improvement out of Woods, Crable, Guyton and even Redd this year or everyone will second guess this draft. Too many solid OLB & ILB options were passed at draft spots that would have been great value for Pats fans to forgive a missed stud in a few years. Especially if the guys we go into this season with don't pan out.

I still like the picks we have. Chung, Butler and Brace have the ability to be studs with some coaching. Vollmer is an absolute mountain of a man and I can't complain about a reach at the end of round 2 with our 4th pick of the day.

Adding Tate & McKenzie made a big difference yesterday. Everyone after that is a step away from being cut anyway, so I'm ok with loading up on big men and keeping whoever looks like they could have value down the line.

Trading Hobbs was stupid. I know a few of you really don't like him much, but when was the last time we didn't go through our entire depth chart + Troy Brown at CB? Giving up the only true known value on the roster at such a valuable position is absolutely asisine, imo - especially since I can't remember the last season we didn't have at least one CB on IR. I understand it gives more development time to the young guys, but why change the old method of working the young guys in as the earn it?
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Merriweather won't be playing nickel with all the corners we've brought in. That was part of the deal with bringing in Butler.

Chung is a pretty major upgrade over Sanders. Sanders is ideally a depth player. I wouldn't say he has all the tools at all. He's pretty much league average across the board.
Merriweather's still better than their 3rd CB as the Nickel. And him being in there with two other safeties brings too much value and versatility to the defense.

Sanders is an average starter at safety in the NFL (which isn't good enough for the Patriots, obviously). He has ideal size, speed, athleticism, tackling ability, and ball skills. He just, for whatever reason, hasn't taken that next step to being a very good NFL starter at safety.

I like the things the Pats will be able to do with Merriweather, Sanders, and Chung. I think we'll see them in there together a lot this year.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Were there guys I would have rather had? Sure. But how can anyone not be stoked about this draft? We completely replenished the offensive and defensive lines, added a guy who I have seen called "a young Brian Dawkins" and added a corner who Bill Belichick calls "the best defensive back prospect I've ever seen."

On top of that, we added TWO second round picks for 2010, all while still taking SIX players in the first two rounds, which by the way, is what we went into the draft with.

Ron Brace is going to be a huge pick. Vince Wilfork was begging for help. He is going to be a major space eater when the Pats go into a 4-3 and will let Jarvis Green, Richard Seymour and Mike Wright stick at the end where they belong.

We could have taken Darius Butler at 23 and no one would have batted an eyelash. We got him at 41, and in doing so, we allowed to move back and essentially add two second rounders in 2010, because we got 41 and two 3rds from Green Bay in that trade and the two thirds allowed gave us four and the freedom to flip two.

This is why the Patriots continue to contend every single year. If you have ever followed this team, you know damn well that Belichick is going to draft his kind of guys. Obviously that is what he thinks he got. The depth on this team should be astounding, and you know what? If they bring in Jason Taylor next, it's going to be icing on the cake.

I thought the Pats pretty much gave a clinic on how to do business on draft day to be honest. Love it.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Sanders is an average starter at safety in the NFL (which isn't good enough for the Patriots, obviously). He has ideal size, speed, athleticism, tackling ability, and ball skills. He just, for whatever reason, hasn't taken that next step to being a very good NFL starter at safety.
Sanders lacks speed. He is a smart player but he does not have the athleticism you look for in a starting NFL safety, and that has led to him being exposed in coverage on numerous occassions. He is very tough against the run and is just a tough player period, but he is nothing better than an average starter. Chung is a big-time upgrade as a starter, but Sanders could still play a big role.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
Don Vito
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Were there guys I would have rather had? Sure. But how can anyone not be stoked about this draft? We completely replenished the offensive and defensive lines, added a guy who I have seen called "a young Brian Dawkins" and added a corner who Bill Belichick calls "the best defensive back prospect I've ever seen."

On top of that, we added TWO second round picks for 2010, all while still taking SIX players in the first two rounds, which by the way, is what we went into the draft with.

Ron Brace is going to be a huge pick. Vince Wilfork was begging for help. He is going to be a major space eater when the Pats go into a 4-3 and will let Jarvis Green, Richard Seymour and Mike Wright stick at the end where they belong.

We could have taken Darius Butler at 23 and no one would have batted an eyelash. We got him at 41, and in doing so, we allowed to move back and essentially add two second rounders in 2010, because we got 41 and two 3rds from Green Bay in that trade and the two thirds allowed gave us four and the freedom to flip two.

This is why the Patriots continue to contend every single year. If you have ever followed this team, you know damn well that Belichick is going to draft his kind of guys. Obviously that is what he thinks he got. The depth on this team should be astounding, and you know what? If they bring in Jason Taylor next, it's going to be icing on the cake.

I thought the Pats pretty much gave a clinic on how to do business on draft day to be honest. Love it.
Good seeing you back Jay! I agree that there could've been some personal preferences at certain picks, but the draft as a whole was a great success in my opinion.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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I agree it was a solid draft. Hopefully the combination of Chung and more experienced young LBs will be enough to get our defense off the field when we get into 3rd and 15 situations this season.


The 2 picks next year are very intriguing. We get the 2nd round pick of Tenn & Jax, so it's two teams from the same division, which just happens to be the toughest division in football right now. On top of that, we get to play both of them this year. My only concern is that the AFC South is matched up with the AFC East & NFC West so aside from NE, AZ, and Seattle the competition is lacking. Maybe Miami is for real . . . but I doubt it. SF, Buff, NYJ and the Rams are far from scary.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Dude, Jay's back! Sweet! Stick around man, it isn't as bad these days.

I won't pretend to argue the draft wasn't a successful one and that we added a ton of depth...but it's very frustrating to see those guys get passed up. If we have pass rushing problems midseason it really won't look nearly as good drafting for depth.
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