so who are the pats cb's?

superman · 04-26-2009, 11:18 PM

now that hobbs is gone?

Wootylicous · 04-26-2009, 11:22 PM

Springs, Wilhite, Bodden, Butler, Mike Richardson, Terrence Wheatley

superman · 04-26-2009, 11:45 PM

springs and bodden starting?

HellonEarth84 · 04-26-2009, 11:47 PM

I really don't get this trade at all.

Hobbs (our #1 corner last year) for a late round Guard.

Considering Wheatley and Shawn Springs both have a history of injuries.... I don't like this trade at all. Hobbs is at worst, a very good nickel and top notch kick returner who couldve contributed to a SuperBowl run.

This Guard we drafted won't contribute at all. I understand "the future" and all, but what about WINNING NOW

Wootylicous · 04-26-2009, 11:51 PM

It was for the salary hobbs was asking for. He wanted to get paid like a #1 corner and he isnt.

HellonEarth84 · 04-27-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wo_oT88

It was for the salary hobbs was asking for. He wanted to get paid like a #1 corner and he isnt.

We wouldve still had him for this year atleast... and considering we are Super Bowl contenders THIS year, it doesnt make sense to get rid of your best returner and lose depth at CB where you have two players with bad histories of being injured.

AntoinCD · 04-27-2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellonEarth84

We wouldve still had him for this year atleast... and considering we are Super Bowl contenders THIS year, it doesnt make sense to get rid of your best returner and lose depth at CB where you have two players with bad histories of being injured.

Yea but overall we upgraded the secondary significantly in the offseason which made Hobbs expendable. I assume both Springs and Bodden will be the day one starters and if none of Wheatley, Wilhitie or Butler where able to nail down the nickel slot then that's bad drafting. As for the deal, two fifths for Ellis Hobbs is a pretty good deal no matter who it was spent on

HellonEarth84 · 04-27-2009, 03:57 AM

Hobbs is one of the best Kick returners in the league, and a solid #2 CB...top notch nickel.

I wouldve kept him for the year atleast. Guards are dime a dozen. We couldve drafted a Guard next year.

ElectricEye · 04-27-2009, 07:56 AM

I wouldn't call Hobbs one of the best kick returners in the league. He's pretty good, but not amazing. Tate will be even better.

I really don't like that trade either, but I think it was sort of necessary. Hobbs was part of a pretty terrible pass defense last year and doesn't really fit in our new look defense. I would prefer a combination of a healthy Springs/Bodden/Butler as our starting three to playing Hobbs anywhere. It's a cap move, mostly. The only thing that really bites about it is that we SHOULD have been able to get a little bit more than 5th rounders.

FlyingElvis · 04-27-2009, 12:43 PM

I completely agree with HellonEarth84 on this one. Hobbs has the most experience in the system, is our best return guy, and was not scheduled to make a ton of money this year. I think all 5 of the other DBs would beat him out for playing time, but when was the last time we finished a season without at least one DB on IR?

Trading an experienced CB w/good KR skills for an OG who may not even make the roster is dumb. The guys left on the roster are all question marks right now.

AntoinCD · 04-27-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

I completely agree with HellonEarth84 on this one. Hobbs has the most experience in the system, is our best return guy, and was not scheduled to make a ton of money this year. I think all 5 of the other DBs would beat him out for playing time, but when was the last time we finished a season without at least one DB on IR?

Trading an experienced CB w/good KR skills for an OG who may not even make the roster is dumb. The guys left on the roster are all question marks right now.

The thing with this is Hobbs was due to make 2.545 mill(I think) next year and he would likely be at best the dime CB and kick returner. Now Hobbs was good returning kicks but not enough to keep him on the roster at that price.

ElectricEye · 04-27-2009, 12:56 PM

Plus he wanted even more money. I'm not saying anything in regards to the trade, but Hobbs was awfully cocky and probably thought he was a lot better than he actually was.

FlyingElvis · 04-27-2009, 01:02 PM

2-point-anything million is not much. If he was going to hold out or pull some BS move about it that's one thing, but on the surface of it I just don't like it. Especially since Tate is expected to spend the year in rehab and potentially PUP/IR for the 09 season so he's not likely take over KR duties. Faulk & Welker at KR, I guess.

It's not that big a deal. I just don't see any sense in the move. I have visions . . . of December and January phone calls to the stand-by, mighty might, old men DBs . . .

Mix · 04-27-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

I wouldn't call Hobbs one of the best kick returners in the league. He's pretty good, but not amazing. Tate will be even better.

How can you even say that? He might not be a threat to take it to the house every time but he consistently gets 25+ yards and starting at the 30+ yard line every drive is more important than a couple TDs a year.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...ret_active.htm

Definitely not one of the best

ElectricEye · 04-27-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mix

How can you even say that? He might not be a threat to take it to the house every time but he consistently gets 25+ yards and starting at the 30+ yard line every drive is more important than a couple TDs a year.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...ret_active.htm

Definitely not one of the best

Hobbs never scared other teams the way a Justin Miller, Devin Hester, or Josh Cribbs did. He was really good at getting it out past the twenty but he very rarely takes it into opposing territory. Tate has a chance to be that caliber of a return man.

I don't know. I wouldn't call Hobbs an elite returner. If you're going by pure averaged yardage, then yeah. I never really thought of him that way though.

Mix · 04-27-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Hobbs never scared other teams the way a Justin Miller, Devin Hester, or Josh Cribbs did. He was really good at getting it out past the twenty but he very rarely takes it into opposing territory. Tate has a chance to be that caliber of a return man.

I don't know. I wouldn't call Hobbs an elite returner. If you're going by pure averaged yardage, then yeah. I never really thought of him that way though.

You are really underrating Hobbs as a returner.

I'll use Miller, Hester and Cribbs as a comparison since you brought them up.

40+ yards
Hobbs: 13/105=12.4% of his returns
Cribbs: 22/209=10.5% of his returns
Miller: 17/141=12.1% of his returns
Hester: 6/94=6.4% of his returns

Touchdowns
Hobbs: 3/105=2.9%
Cribbs: 5/209=2.4%
Miller: 5/141=3.5%
Hester: 4/94=4.3%

Average
Hobbs: 27.7 yards/return
Cribbs: 26.3 yards/return
Miller: 26.6 yards/return
Hester: 22.8 yards/return

FlyingElvis · 04-27-2009, 02:19 PM

Chung returns kicks, too - right?

nepg · 04-27-2009, 02:24 PM

Butler's amazing with the ball in his hands...he actually is very comparable to Hobbs.

I would've been fine trading Hobbs for 2 5th's, but then they traded those picks for the G (who I like as a back-up/Hochstein replacement)...and that killed it for me. Hobbs is very underrated and undervalued by most NE fans.

ElectricEye · 04-27-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mix

You are really underrating Hobbs as a returner.

I'll use Miller, Hester and Cribbs as a comparison since you brought them up.

40+ yards
Hobbs: 13/105=12.4% of his returns
Cribbs: 22/209=10.5% of his returns
Miller: 17/141=12.1% of his returns
Hester: 6/94=6.4% of his returns

Touchdowns
Hobbs: 3/105=2.9%
Cribbs: 5/209=2.4%
Miller: 5/141=3.5%
Hester: 4/94=4.3%

Average
Hobbs: 27.7 yards/return
Cribbs: 26.3 yards/return
Miller: 26.6 yards/return
Hester: 22.8 yards/return

Maybe it's a grass is greener type situation, but I think Tate will be just as effective as Hobbs as a kick returner. Returns punts as well.

cdf_2108 · 04-27-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mix

You are really underrating Hobbs as a returner.

I'll use Miller, Hester and Cribbs as a comparison since you brought them up.

40+ yards
Hobbs: 13/105=12.4% of his returns
Cribbs: 22/209=10.5% of his returns
Miller: 17/141=12.1% of his returns
Hester: 6/94=6.4% of his returns

Touchdowns
Hobbs: 3/105=2.9%
Cribbs: 5/209=2.4%
Miller: 5/141=3.5%
Hester: 4/94=4.3%

Average
Hobbs: 27.7 yards/return
Cribbs: 26.3 yards/return
Miller: 26.6 yards/return
Hester: 22.8 yards/return

It's good that you show the numbers and it supports that Hobbs is a premier kick return. However, I feel like special teams units picked on Hester, Miller, and Cribbs more than they did Ellis Hobbs--in other words, kicking away from them, kicking towards corners, or doing extra preparation. It would be hard to quantify this discrepancy but I felt like teams pretty much always kicked straight to ellis hobbs and it didn't seem like he was being "game planned" against the way they do when I watch hester play. This factor would hurt the other guys averages.

HellonEarth84 · 04-27-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

I wouldn't call Hobbs one of the best kick returners in the league. He's pretty good, but not amazing.

IIRC Hobbs had the best average yard per return in the NFL last season.

Therefore - YES, he is one of the best returners in the league.

HellonEarth84 · 04-27-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Maybe it's a grass is greener type situation, but I think Tate will be just as effective as Hobbs as a kick returner. Returns punts as well.

Total BS. Just admit that you were wrong. He even provided factual information.

BB in his recent interview also confessed that trading Hobbs was a spur of the moment trade. I think it will be one that he will regret.

December/January against teams like the Colts, Steelers, Chargers... an injured Shawn Springs and Terrence Wheatley... a Rookie Darius Butler who hasnt fully picked up the defensive scheme... all of a sudden our secondary that we thought was improved, will be back to looking like garbage.

AntoinCD · 04-28-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellonEarth84

Total BS. Just admit that you were wrong. He even provided factual information.

BB in his recent interview also confessed that trading Hobbs was a spur of the moment trade. I think it will be one that he will regret.

December/January against teams like the Colts, Steelers, Chargers... an injured Shawn Springs and Terrence Wheatley... a Rookie Darius Butler who hasnt fully picked up the defensive scheme... all of a sudden our secondary that we thought was improved, will be back to looking like garbage.

OK lets look at that on the flip side. December/January time and Leigh bodden is back to pro bowl form, Shawn Springs has just had yet another game where he locks down T.O, Terrence Wheatley has the nickel spot and Butler, the highest rated pure corner in this draft by a lot of people, can't even get on the field. Another thing about the Hobbs return stats, you also have to factor in the blocking and things like that. While he done well you never really saw anything explosive.

ElectricEye · 04-28-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellonEarth84

Total BS. Just admit that you were wrong. He even provided factual information.

Ok, way to be a dick about it. Nobody is coming on that strong and there's no reason to at all. I agreed that Hobbs is one of the better returners in the league but I wouldn't call him elite, or "one of the best".

Havok69 · 05-02-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellonEarth84

BB in his recent interview also confessed that trading Hobbs was a spur of the moment trade.

Did he say that the Eagles called him or that he called the Eagles?