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Old 04-29-2009, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Default Whatd u think of the draft???

I absolutely love the first four rounds of the draft.

Vontae Davis and Sean Smith are big, physical corners who will match up well with the taller WR in the league, and will be able to disrupt the routes of smaller guys. That should allow Will Allen to slide into the slot against Welker, or any other smallish, quick type slot guy. Add in Gibril Wilson and we have a secondary that can match up with anyone. Eric Green and Jason Allen can provide depth and ST bodies. Most of all, Im sooo glad I dont ever have to see Michael Lehan, Joey Thomas, Nate Jones, Tyrone Culver, or Renaldo Hill being debacled in the secondary ever again. Im still having nightmares from watching those scrubs.

I love the Pat White pick. No more cheating 9 guys into the box when we run the wild cat anymore. White ran the wildcat to perfection in college, and with him running it, it wont just be a nuisance, it'll be flat out dangerous. Now we can run the sweep, the counter, the reverse, the bootleg, the playaction, the draw, the screen etc, the options are endless, and we still have Ginn and Turner in case anyone wants to crowdn the line too much. Im salivating just thinking about it.

Alot of people are down on Turner and Hartline, but I dont know why. They arent flashy to be sure, but we dont need the second coming of Andre Johnson to be successful. All we need are dependable guys and thats what we got. Turner is 6'5 230, with good hands and route running experience. He has the size to go over the middle and to be a threat in the red zone, something we sorely missed last year. Hartline is bigger, faster version of Camarillo, who can contribute on special teams if he's not in the rotation. I hope Ginn is more afraid of getting benched than he is being hit, b/c if he isnt, he may find himself out of a starting job. I have no problem seeing Turner and Bess, or Turner and Hartline in there, with Ginn as the third guy and KR/PR. I hope he tightens up, but Sparano wont be forced to play him the way he was last year. Thoughts?
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Will Allen is our best CB. Why on earth would you move him to the slot? I like the Davis and Smith picks but let's see how they play before thinking they are good enough to bump one of the games best corners into the slot. I think we'll see seeing Davis and Allen outside with Green in the nickel to start the year. But your right that Joey Thomas, Michael Lehan (who was cut a long time ago) and Nate Jones being off the roster is a good thing. Althought sadly, I'd rather have Nate Jones then Jason Allen.

And what is wrong with Tyrone Culver? He player outstanding last season as a dime safety. He in no way should see tons of PT but he certainly has a role with this team and is very good at that role.
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Will Allen is our best CB. Why on earth would you move him to the slot? I like the Davis and Smith picks but let's see how they play before thinking they are good enough to bump one of the games best corners into the slot. I think we'll see seeing Davis and Allen outside with Green in the nickel to start the year. But your right that Joey Thomas, Michael Lehan (who was cut a long time ago) and Nate Jones being off the roster is a good thing. Althought sadly, I'd rather have Nate Jones then Jason Allen.

And what is wrong with Tyrone Culver? He player outstanding last season as a dime safety. He in no way should see tons of PT but he certainly has a role with this team and is very good at that role.
Will Allen played in the slot ALOT last year when we went to the nickel package. He has the skills to match up with smaller, quicker guys, and we had Jason Allen and Goodman on the outside. If Eric Green plays ahead of Sean Smith I'd be very dissapointed. J Allen was put on the bigger WRs last year, Moss and Brandon Marshall specifically, and he held is own, but could never make a play on the ball. Smith is bigger, faster, quicker, has longer arms, more vert, and better ball skills, so hopefully he'll succeed where Allen failed. Maybe its because of is draft status, but I just dont want to let the Jason Allen dream die. He was pretty good on special teams last year, and I think thats a good enough reason to keep him as the 5th CB over Nate Jones. But still, the fact that he may not ever see the field, and might even be cut speaks volumes about how much our secondary has improved, last year he was a major contributor, this year he's battlin for a roster spot. Bravo.
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Gotta disagree on Culver. The word oustanding should not be used in the same sentence with dolphins secondary 2008. Culver was light years ahead of Chris Crocker, but he never pushed ahead of Renaldo "the Horrible" Hill, and was basically just a guy in the secondary. I expect Clemons to be playing that back up safety role this year.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Gotta disagree on Culver. The word oustanding should not be used in the same sentence with dolphins secondary 2008. Culver was light years ahead of Chris Crocker, but he never pushed ahead of Renaldo "the Horrible" Hill, and was basically just a guy in the secondary. I expect Clemons to be playing that back up safety role this year.
Thats your problem. Your comparing Culver to Renaldo Hill and Chris Crocker who were both starters. Culver will never start here. Never. But he excelled as our dime safety and theres nothing wrong with that. Hill and Crocker were miscast as starters and is showed. Culver fits in just fine and played well as a dime safety with us. No need to cut him. He did a good job in that role.

You just blanking all the safeties together and comparing them to each other. There's a difference between a starter, a backup and a sub-package player.

Clemons would be a backup. Hill was a starter. Culver will never be more then a sub package player but he's good as a sub-package player.

Saying he didn't push ahead of Renaldo Hill doesn't mean he wasn't good at the role he played. Your comparing apples to oranges. Not everyone on the team can be starters. Sub-Package players have their roles and Culver certainly played well in his. Comparing him to guys that had zero business is a mistake and not a properly evaluation of his talent or how he was used.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Will Allen played in the slot ALOT last year when we went to the nickel package. He has the skills to match up with smaller, quicker guys, and we had Jason Allen and Goodman on the outside. If Eric Green plays ahead of Sean Smith I'd be very dissapointed. J Allen was put on the bigger WRs last year, Moss and Brandon Marshall specifically, and he held is own, but could never make a play on the ball. Smith is bigger, faster, quicker, has longer arms, more vert, and better ball skills, so hopefully he'll succeed where Allen failed. Maybe its because of is draft status, but I just dont want to let the Jason Allen dream die. He was pretty good on special teams last year, and I think thats a good enough reason to keep him as the 5th CB over Nate Jones. But still, the fact that he may not ever see the field, and might even be cut speaks volumes about how much our secondary has improved, last year he was a major contributor, this year he's battlin for a roster spot. Bravo.
Ur gonna be let down.

I love Smith but he needs alot of work and isn't gonna see the field anytime soon. He's extremely raw.

Nate Jones brought more to this team last year then Allen did. Alot more. I dunno what you were watching that Allen played outside with Goodman while Will Allen moved inside. Will Allen was almost always on the other teams best WR. Nate Jones was the one that got the most PT in the nickel and was very good from a pass rush sense in that role. He's another Sub-Package guy like Culver that played pretty well last year. Jason Allen didn't even become a primary backup at all last season. He shared that role with Joey Thomas all thru the year, I dunno what you think you saw in Jason Allen but he sucks. Flatly just sucks. We had a pretty good pass rush last year and that covered alot of his mistakes because Jason couldn't stick with any of the biggest WRs last year. They were pushing him all over the field.

I think you need to learn the difference between a starter, a backup and a sub-package guy.

You are in favor of cutting pretty good sub-package players to keep around scrubs like Jason Allen on the hopes he could one day be a starter.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Thats your problem. Your comparing Culver to Renaldo Hill and Chris Crocker who were both starters. Culver will never start here. Never. But he excelled as our dime safety and theres nothing wrong with that. Hill and Crocker were miscast as starters and is showed. Culver fits in just fine and played well as a dime safety with us. No need to cut him. He did a good job in that role.

You just blanking all the safeties together and comparing them to each other. There's a difference between a starter, a backup and a sub-package player.

Clemons would be a backup. Hill was a starter. Culver will never be more then a sub package player but he's good as a sub-package player.

Saying he didn't push ahead of Renaldo Hill doesn't mean he wasn't good at the role he played. Your comparing apples to oranges. Not everyone on the team can be starters. Sub-Package players have their roles and Culver certainly played well in his. Comparing him to guys that had zero business is a mistake and not a properly evaluation of his talent or how he was used.
Dont know where to start with this one. Chris Crocker was super horrible last year. He was replaced by Hill. Hill was was just regular horrible. The guy you call outstanding may have looked good to you b/c he only played in obvious passing situations, which anyone can tell you is alot easier than playing as a regular. If youre a back up safety who cant push ahead of Renaldo the Horrible, and youre not a special teams standout, then you shouldnt have a roster spot, period. Give that roster spot to an up and coming S with some upside, or a special teams beast, and call it a day. Youre sounding a little naive there.

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Old 04-29-2009, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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Ur gonna be let down.

I love Smith but he needs alot of work and isn't gonna see the field anytime soon. He's extremely raw.

Nate Jones brought more to this team last year then Allen did. Alot more. I dunno what you were watching that Allen played outside with Goodman while Will Allen moved inside. Will Allen was almost always on the other teams best WR. Nate Jones was the one that got the most PT in the nickel and was very good from a pass rush sense in that role. He's another Sub-Package guy like Culver that played pretty well last year. Jason Allen didn't even become a primary backup at all last season. He shared that role with Joey Thomas all thru the year, I dunno what you think you saw in Jason Allen but he sucks. Flatly just sucks. We had a pretty good pass rush last year and that covered alot of his mistakes because Jason couldn't stick with any of the biggest WRs last year. They were pushing him all over the field.

I think you need to learn the difference between a starter, a backup and a sub-package guy.

You are in favor of cutting pretty good sub-package players to keep around scrubs like Jason Allen on the hopes he could one day be a starter.
Go back and watch the games dude. Allen got the pick six in Denver FROM THE SLOT. He was on Stokely, and fell off of his man to pick off the pass. J Allen was on Marshall, the intended WR, and he was beaten for an easy reception. Allen was in the slot for the entire game in our nickel package, primarily covering Stokely. Goodman and J Allen were on Marshall all afternoon. In the Seattle game, Allen spent alot of time in the slot as well, and when he wasnt in the slot, he was being abused by Bobby Engram. In the Oakland game, he was in the slot again, he got a sack in the first quarter on a blitz from the slot in fact. Against the Pats, he was on Welker, and Goodman and J Allen were on Moss, always in position, but rarely making a play on the ball. Nate Jones didnt start seeing significant playing time until Allen hurt his hand. That should tell you all you need to know, unless you know something the coaching staff doesnt. And Culver wasnt put in ahead of Crocker or Hill, that should tell you something as well. Sub package or not, any guy that cant play ahead of a horrible player, ISNT VERY GOOD, and if he's not a special teams beast, he should be upgraded. Hill may have been kept in the lineup because he was good at getting everyone on the same page, but he made no plays, and was abused several times a game. I cant believe the Broncos gave him all that money, but after the Cutler situation, no amount of Bronco stupidity will suprise me. My advice is that you go back and watch the games, I doubt you saw them or paid much attention if you dont recall Will Allen being habitually moved to the slot in our nickel. Once J Allen was hurt, Jones played nickel, probably b/c he wasnt trusted to play outside. Again, that should tell you something. Later.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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BTW, neither Nate Jones nor Joey Thomas saw the field until Allen late in the year. Where you got this "all thru the year" stuff is beyond me. Jason Allen was the nickel corner for most of the year, prior to breaking his hand IIRC. Im not a big fan of J Allen by any stretch, but he's a special teams contributor, and IF he ever applies his talent to actually playing on the field, he can be a solid back-up. Joey Thomas is not an NFL player, and Nate Jones is not much better. I cant explain it all, you'll just have to go back and watch the games. Watch Arizona's games if you can also. Ive watched several, looking for Eric Green. He's an average-below average CB. And his contract 2 yrs 6 million screams "back-up player". He'll have to be MUCH better than Smith to earn playing time ahead of him. Yes he's raw, but CB is one of the easier positions to transition to, so hopefully he'll get into camp and start grinding away.

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Old 04-30-2009, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Dont patronize me with the "go watch the games" crap. I saw the games. Dont try to belittle me with that crap.

Your logic overall, still sucks.

I don't know how to explain this any better to you. Tyrone Culver will never, ever pass Crocker or Hill on any depth chart. NEVER. That is not his role. He is on the team strictly as a sub-package player. That is it. That is what he is good at and that is what he does well. There are roster spots for guys like that and being able to find players like him that can excell in sub-package roles is what makes our staff so great.

As a starter, Culver would be one of the worst in all of football. But guess what, he's not a starter. He's a sub-package guy and he's good in the packages we use him for. That means he's got a place on this team.

Culver is here because he's good at the role we have for him. Hill and Crocker are gone because they sucked at the role we had for them. Plain and simple.

Your argument that Culver sucks because he didn't pass Hill on the depth chart is plain garbage. He was never asked to try to replace Hill. The staff knows what he can do and what he can't. They found a niche for him and he played well in that niche last year. Hill never found a niche and never excelled at anything last year.

It's like comparing a pass rushing specialist with an every down LB. The rush specialist comes in for certain situations. The every down LB plays the majority of the game. Why? Because the pass rusher is limited in what eh can do but because he can rush the passer well, he has a role on the team.

Same with Culver. Because he can cover, he has a role on this team. He will never be an every down player because he's smaller and can't hit in the run game but he does cover well and there's a role on this team for him.
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Dont patronize me with the "go watch the games" crap. I saw the games. Dont try to belittle me with that crap.

Your logic overall, still sucks.

I don't know how to explain this any better to you. Tyrone Culver will never, ever pass Crocker or Hill on any depth chart. NEVER. That is not his role. He is on the team strictly as a sub-package player. That is it. That is what he is good at and that is what he does well. There are roster spots for guys like that and being able to find players like him that can excell in sub-package roles is what makes our staff so great.

As a starter, Culver would be one of the worst in all of football. But guess what, he's not a starter. He's a sub-package guy and he's good in the packages we use him for. That means he's got a place on this team.

Culver is here because he's good at the role we have for him. Hill and Crocker are gone because they sucked at the role we had for them. Plain and simple.

Your argument that Culver sucks because he didn't pass Hill on the depth chart is plain garbage. He was never asked to try to replace Hill. The staff knows what he can do and what he can't. They found a niche for him and he played well in that niche last year. Hill never found a niche and never excelled at anything last year.

It's like comparing a pass rushing specialist with an every down LB. The rush specialist comes in for certain situations. The every down LB plays the majority of the game. Why? Because the pass rusher is limited in what eh can do but because he can rush the passer well, he has a role on the team.

Same with Culver. Because he can cover, he has a role on this team. He will never be an every down player because he's smaller and can't hit in the run game but he does cover well and there's a role on this team for him.

Not trying to patronize, but you sound silly saying W Allen didnt play the slot, or that Jones and Thomas played "all through the year". Thats all.

As for Culver, you keep telling me how well he played, would you mind telling me which game(s) he played well in? Did he make any plays? He had a gimme pick in the Denver game on a horribly late pass By Cutler. Did you notice him in any other game, where is all this praise coming from?

Regardless, he needs to be upgraded. Either with a special teams demon, or a guy with more upside. I dont want to use a roster spot on a guy who can only play in the dime, and who will "NEVER" compete for a starter spot, and doesnt play ST.

Oranges and apples, comparing a dime FS to a pass rush specialist. Pass rusher, along with QB, CB, and LT, is a premium NFL position. You dont hear Kiper, Mayock, Saprano, or anyone else talking about how they can never find enough dime package safeties, so I disagree there.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Not trying to patronize, but you sound silly saying W Allen didnt play the slot, or that Jones and Thomas played "all through the year". Thats all.

As for Culver, you keep telling me how well he played, would you mind telling me which game(s) he played well in? Did he make any plays? He had a gimme pick in the Denver game on a horribly late pass By Cutler. Did you notice him in any other game, where is all this praise coming from?

Regardless, he needs to be upgraded. Either with a special teams demon, or a guy with more upside. I dont want to use a roster spot on a guy who can only play in the dime, and who will "NEVER" compete for a starter spot, and doesnt play ST.

Oranges and apples, comparing a dime FS to a pass rush specialist. Pass rusher, along with QB, CB, and LT, is a premium NFL position. You dont hear Kiper, Mayock, Saprano, or anyone else talking about how they can never find enough dime package safeties, so I disagree there.
Good God. You completely miss the entire point of the post.

I didn't compare the 2 position value wise. I was just making the point that specialist have a place in this league and Culver has knack for coverages.

I dont want to use a roster spot on a guy who can only play in the dime, and who will "NEVER" compete for a starter spot, and doesnt play ST.[/quote]

Go check every NFL roster. Every one of them has a guy like Culver. A sub-package guy that comes in just for certain plays. You make it seem like we are the only team that uses guys like him. No roster in the NFL is stacked with guys who offer huge upside and are special teams aces. Your 6th DB typically have very little upside and they are either on the roster for special teams play or sub-package work. They aren't high upside guys that will eventually light the world on fire.

Look at the Superbowl Champs Steelers. What exactly does Anthony Madison bring to the table as far as upside? Or the Pats with Raymond Ventrone?

Every team in the NFL has a Tyrone Culver on their roster and fact of the matter is that Tyrone Culver is better at what he does then what most NFL teams have at that spot.
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Good God. You completely miss the entire point of the post.

I didn't compare the 2 position value wise. I was just making the point that specialist have a place in this league and Culver has knack for coverages.

I dont want to use a roster spot on a guy who can only play in the dime, and who will "NEVER" compete for a starter spot, and doesnt play ST.
Go check every NFL roster. Every one of them has a guy like Culver. A sub-package guy that comes in just for certain plays. You make it seem like we are the only team that uses guys like him. No roster in the NFL is stacked with guys who offer huge upside and are special teams aces. Your 6th DB typically have very little upside and they are either on the roster for special teams play or sub-package work. They aren't high upside guys that will eventually light the world on fire.

Look at the Superbowl Champs Steelers. What exactly does Anthony Madison bring to the table as far as upside? Or the Pats with Raymond Ventrone?

Every team in the NFL has a Tyrone Culver on their roster and fact of the matter is that Tyrone Culver is better at what he does then what most NFL teams have at that spot.[/quote]


Im not missing your point at all. Im just patiently waiting for you to tell us all what game(s) Culver played well in. What plays did he make on D, or even ST? What did he do that makes his roster spot secure? You keep telling me how good he is, but you cant back it up with any facts.

Of course teams use specialists and sub package players. We just used a 2nd round pick on one. But teams also make additions and upgrades whenever possible, and we should be trying to find a better player than Culver. If we cant find one, then we keep him. But to say he deserves a roster spot based on his ability to be a backup safety that will never start is something I just cant agree with.
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