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Old 12-07-2009, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
Exactly, you don't pass on rare talent just because you're worried that you have a bigger need. Vikings were smart enough to take AP when they had a more than serviceable Chester Taylor. Jackpot. Spiller is going to be the real deal and him and Thomas as returners could really spark a ST that has lacked a real weapon for years now.
I won't argue too much but Peterson walked into an ideal situation - the Vikes have one of the best Olines in the NFL. If we had a good Oline I would have no problem with Spiller and we do have to replace Portis soon. My view is that good line play will make your skill position players more effective. I look at the Skins this year and wonder how much better we would be if we had a decent Oline. Maybe we wouldn't be having conversations about replacing Campbell, or our underachieving WRs. Look at how things have gone in the Snyder era - always grabbing the flashy FA/pick while ignoring the Oline (for the most part) and we have only modest success in a couple of seasons. I'm just fed up with it. Your talking to a guy who watched the Gibbs 1.0 era and he won with the best Oline as a consistent component year after year.
You don't necessarily have to reach - trading down to get more picks is a good move this year. We are a 3-9 team with an older roster with major holes @ QB, Oline, DB and LB. Personally I think a lot of the successful teams you mentioned are good because they pay attention to their lines. The Ravens have drafted Olineman with their 1st pick many times.

That being said I could live with Okung & Devine, but the Skins have to draft at least 2 Olineman this year to realistically address the position.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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I won't argue too much but Peterson walked into an ideal situation - the Vikes have one of the best Olines in the NFL. If we had a good Oline I would have no problem with Spiller and we do have to replace Portis soon. My view is that good line play will make your skill position players more effective. I look at the Skins this year and wonder how much better we would be if we had a decent Oline. Maybe we wouldn't be having conversations about replacing Campbell, or our underachieving WRs. Look at how things have gone in the Snyder era - always grabbing the flashy FA/pick while ignoring the Oline (for the most part) and we have only modest success in a couple of seasons. I'm just fed up with it. Your talking to a guy who watched the Gibbs 1.0 era and he won with the best Oline as a consistent component year after year.
You don't necessarily have to reach - trading down to get more picks is a good move this year. We are a 3-9 team with an older roster with major holes @ QB, Oline, DB and LB. Personally I think a lot of the successful teams you mentioned are good because they pay attention to their lines. The Ravens have drafted Olineman with their 1st pick many times.

That being said I could live with Okung & Devine, but the Skins have to draft at least 2 Olineman this year to realistically address the position.
Problem is there really isn't a Olineman worthy of where we are going to pick besides Okung. Reaching for one and missing isn't ideal. Like STRIP said, if theres one thing the line is good at its run blocking. Spiller is a guy who doesn't need much, maybe if we were drafting a guy who is a progression type runner I'd see your point but I don't want to miss out on what could be the next Chris Johnson...This is just one way we could go to I'm not actively driving the Spiller train I just think it is something to take into serious consideration. Devine I would love obviously but his running style can be frustrating at times. If the hole isn't there to break it, he doesn't do much else and he wont be able to carry a large load.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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thoughts on our team by position..... very long.

qb


- i personally hope jason campbell stays but i think he is gone regardless. i dunno if he wants to staty in DC the way we have treated him. like everyone else, i dont really like anyone in draft and FA is just garbage so campbell and colt brennan are our best options. only qb i like is jake locker (remind me of mcnabb), but i like him for next years draft haha. so yeah. not happenig.

rb

- love me some clinton portis, so he is good when he is healthy, and as evident he was averaging 4.0/carry before being hurt. now we have ladell (cut him but we will probably keep him) and rock (keep cause of ST and he is proving value this year). but i agree we need to bring in someone electric. ganther is probably gone if we draft someone. also anyone else miss the way portis blocks, i do.

-heres how i see it draft wise, spiller in the first and can actually be a rb. like what ghetto said with his touches. but later on be an actual full rb. devine in the 2nd who can do the same as spiller in his first year but really thats what youre getting for his career. which isnt bad at all by means. mccluster in the 4th (maybe in the 3rd but we dont have one) can do the same as devine but not as much at rb, but still some at rb. all 3 of those are what we need.

fb

-love mike sellers. amazing blocker and good receiver but really old and seems to fumble alot. drafted some guy from idaho eddie williams or something. who knows the future here. maybe yoder! since i love him but he is old too. or cooley in the h-back again since fred davis is going beast mode on us. maybe put lorenzo alexander full time haaha.

wr


-love our recievers. still think santana is a good player and one of the best double move runners in the league. randle el is getting older and slower and stupider but seems to be clutch on 3rd downs, not sure if i would keep him, maybe if he accepts a pay cut. be like a thrash type of player, cause obviously thomas and kelly (yes even kelly, he is slowly coming around too) and marko should pass him on the chart of depth.

te

- cooley is abviously a pro bowl tight end, great reciever and good blocker. fred davis is an unreal reciever who breaks a billion tackles, havent reallly payed attention to his blocking, or if he even ever blocks but yeah, he is a beauty. todd yoder is one of my favorites, i hope he doesnt cut. i think were good here for sure.

ot

- wow okay... levi jones is playing solid at lt so hopefully he continues that. chris samuels is all but retired. heyer is just garbage, gone. mike williams is versatile so i think we keep him, and he's been decent. batiste, gone. so lets hope okung falls to us. samuels can play in his 4 games and then okung can start the next 12 or whatever. as someone said, we dont want capers, he is garbage (auburn fan, wow. brutal game by him) other tackles are all potential wait and see people for now so yeah. but davis, williams, fox, and brown intrigue me as lt/rt and sam young at rt.

og

- ahhh, love dockery, hes good in DC. randy thomas as chris samuels, is good for 4 games. basically retiring as well. so we have will montgomery who is miserable, hope he gets cut. chad rinehart still has growing and potential left in him i think, and he looked starting ability in the time he was in.

c

-rabach... old. penalties. slow. wow. we need a new one bad. bring fricken jansen back to play center(i think i remember them saying he was practicing there one time a couple years ago) lol. i dunno what we do here, i dont know of any draft eligble or FAs so yeah hmmm. ****.

de

- love it here as well. andre is hitting his like.. prime with albert here now. i dont see him decreasing for 2-3 years ish. jarmon is going to be a beast, i can see it. relentless motor at what.. 275? with good quickness. i like it. and orakpo obviously. nuff said. rob jackson... yeah cool. keep him whatever. chris wilson adds a nice pass rush every once in awhile, i like him, CFL pride haha. also could help at LB.


dt

- albert, everyone already knows him and the situation so yeah. monty is just a big plug/space eater. golston is a nice UT, good quickness and motor for a big body, wouldnt mind keeping him around for cheap price. griffin is still a very solid started and veteran who i would like to keep around. i want to see more lorenzo alexander, this guy is what we need more of. plays everything and doesnt stop.

lb

- okay.. london is still very sick. anyone see him stick with devery henderson on a streak... yeah. he is a freak still. hb blades is actually playing solid in the time he is in. could be a serviceable starter, but would not count on him. rocky needs to be resigned, very good player for several years coming. hopefully our coaching staff can develop robert henson into something, he seems athletic. frick, develop landry in to a hybrid LB if it comes down it. move orakpo to de, landry to some kind of ss/lb and draft eric berry! ah i dunno, this is getting long and im just saying random ideas. like someone said aj edds or even dakota watson are intriguing later round people. of course everyone has to love rolando mcclain cause he is just sick.

cb

- i love carlos, im just coming out to say it cause im an auburn fan hahah. he was top 10 in 2008 but got benched late in the year and his attitude has the best of him now and seems to not care. and he has the worst hands ever, but it seems like everyone on our team does so who cares. hall like someone said is basically forced to start so we live with it.......


need a brain break ill be back.
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Edwin Williams might be our future center. He is playing ok right now out of position at OG, but I like his versatility. Still though he's probably in the same boat as Heyer. Capable of stepping in at a couple of positions, but nothing more than average-below average at whatever spot.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Offseason Mock (Uncapped)

Free Agency

- Resign McIntosh (OLB), Lorenzo Alexander (DT), Reed Doughty (SS), Kedric Gholston (DT), Levi Jones (OT), and Chris Wilson (OLB/DE)

- Trade Carlos Rogers (CB) for a late 3rd round pick, Trade LaRon Landry (S) for a 2nd round pick

- Cut Betts (RB) and Randle El (WR)

- Todd Collins (QB) retire

- Sign Ryan Clark (FS), Chris Redman (QB)

Draft

Round 1 - Russell Okung, OT, Okl State

Round 2 - Noel Devine, RB, WVU

Round 2 - Perrish Cox, CB, Okl State

Round 3 - Daryl Washington, LB, TCU

Round 4 - Kevin Alfred, C/G, Washington State

Round 5 - Kevin Haslem, T/G, Rutgers
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dirty Thirty View Post
Offseason Mock (Uncapped)

Free Agency

- Resign McIntosh (OLB), Lorenzo Alexander (DT), Reed Doughty (SS), Kedric Gholston (DT), Levi Jones (OT), and Chris Wilson (OLB/DE)

- Trade Carlos Rogers (CB) for a late 3rd round pick, Trade LaRon Landry (S) for a 2nd round pick

- Cut Betts (RB) and Randle El (WR)

- Todd Collins (QB) retire

- Sign Ryan Clark (FS), Chris Redman (QB)

Draft

Round 1 - Russell Okung, OT, Okl State

Round 2 - Noel Devine, RB, WVU

Round 2 - Perrish Cox, CB, Okl State

Round 3 - Daryl Washington, LB, TCU

Round 4 - Kevin Alfred, C/G, Washington State

Round 5 - Kevin Haslem, T/G, Rutgers
I like this D30, good work.

I would make a slight change:
R3 - Kyle Calloway OT Iowa
R4 - AJ Edds OLB Iowa

Washington is a great athlete but a little light for SLB, IMO. Also Levi Jones would be a good re-signing but apparently he just wants to play LT. I would re-sign to a 2 year incentive based contract (based on playing time considering his injury history). Not that it matters much but I we do have our 7th rounder in 2010.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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I like this D30, good work.

I would make a slight change:
R3 - Kyle Calloway OT Iowa
R4 - AJ Edds OLB Iowa

Washington is a great athlete but a little light for SLB, IMO. Also Levi Jones would be a good re-signing but apparently he just wants to play LT. I would re-sign to a 2 year incentive based contract (based on playing time considering his injury history). Not that it matters much but I we do have our 7th rounder in 2010.
yea for 7th round i just figure bpa or whatever. i actually almost went with calloway and edds combo but i wanted a center over a guard and alfred is actually a good combo player that could play both but i think would excel most at center. with washington, again i loved his versatility. can play inside or outside, very good in coverage, good tackle technique, and a really strong frame.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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<3 ryan clark. would love to get him back. everything looks good and realisitic in that mock offseason too.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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with Portis's future unclear now being put on IR, I love me some Noel Devine in Round 2!
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Well with the Monday night debacle still lingering is there any doubt that the Skins need to totally re-do their Oline? I just don't see us drafting Spiller with our #1 pick, especially if Shanny is the next HC. If we stick to only 5 picks at least 3 of them have to be Oline. I still advocate trading down and getting extra picks. I would rather struggle with young, hungry players instead of the overpaid garbage that was on the field Monday. Any QB or RB we draft would struggle behind this line. I initially thought of retaining Levi Jones on a 2-3 year incentive based contract and grooming a young LT to take over. However, Jones looked like the rest of the garbage - i don't see keeping him.
Any thoughts, Gents?
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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im with you on oline oline oline. there are a couple fa olineman that could be decnt and shanahan is known for being able to get olineman that work in his scheme but i absolutely want a franchise anchor on the line more than anything. at this point okung is the guy im praying for but anthony davis i am hoping proves in workouts that he could be that guy as well. ideally, id love to trade down as well but only if we think we can slide down a few spots and still get davis.

another guy that no one talks about is gabe carimi. i actually like carimi more than bruce campbell because i think he is closer to being able to be an immediate impact starter. hes started for wisc now 3 straight years and ive heard he could declare. he looks like a great prospect to me and probably would be the first OT taken if he stayed his senior year.

hopefully if we are able to snag an OT in the first than i wouldnt mind going rb in the second like dwyer or devine then oline again in the 4th with a guard or center.

if we do go OT in the second i hope its for a guy like nate solder if he declares. hes a guy that i think could be the best OT in this draft in the right situation with the right coaching.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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We desperately need Okung I feel like...right now we are at number 6 for the draft. Seems just a tad too high to get Okung...Scott has him going 5.

We need to lose out and hopefully move up a spot or two for him haha...
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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okung and jason fox/trent williams/vladimir ducasse(no clue but scott says hes versatile and good)/lee ziemba (read some rumours hes undecided right now), rd 1 and rd 2.

jeremy jarmon in round 3 ;)

aj edds lb in the rd 4

walter thrumond/walter mcfadden/nolan carroll rd 5

rd 6... **** jason taylor

rd 7 joe webb qb/rb/wr/rs i dunno, throwing it out there.

----maybe a center in there somewhere also, i dunno.
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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There are some pretty good players available at oline in FA. Maybe old Dan will make a splash there.
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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There are some pretty good players available at oline in FA. Maybe old Dan will make a splash there.
i pray to god/allah/buddha that bruce allen talks some sense into danny and leads him else where hahah.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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i pray to god/allah/buddha that bruce allen talks some sense into danny and leads him else where hahah.
if the skins land shanahan then i do expect 1-2 FA Oline signings for sure and maybe not the guys you would expect. shanahan is notorious for finding olineman that fit his style that arent necessarily the big name guys.

everything that i am hearing tends to side towards 2010 being uncapped. in which case i wouldnt be surprised to see bruce allen make some surprising cuts because i dont foresee many more if any uncapped years beyond 2010.

Here are a few guys that could be in question, their 2010 cap hit, and their likelihood of remaining a Redskins IMO if there are no cap penalties in 2010:

-Randy Thomas, $5.6 million - Out
-Antwaan Randle El, $5 million - Out
-Chris Samuels, $4.85 million - Out
-Todd Collins, $3.5 million - Out

-Clinton Portis, $12.1 million - Doubtful
-Fred Smoot, $5.4 million - Doubtful
-Casey Rabach, $3.5 million - Doubtful
-Ladell Betts, $2.5 million - Doubtful

-Cornelius Griffin, $2 million - Questionable
-Rock Cartwright, $1.6 million - Questionable

-Laron Landry, $5.7 million - Probable
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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if the skins land shanahan then i do expect 1-2 FA Oline signings for sure and maybe not the guys you would expect. shanahan is notorious for finding olineman that fit his style that arent necessarily the big name guys.

everything that i am hearing tends to side towards 2010 being uncapped. in which case i wouldnt be surprised to see bruce allen make some surprising cuts because i dont foresee many more if any uncapped years beyond 2010.

Here are a few guys that could be in question, their 2010 cap hit, and their likelihood of remaining a Redskins IMO if there are no cap penalties in 2010:

-Randy Thomas, $5.6 million - Out
-Antwaan Randle El, $5 million - Out
-Chris Samuels, $4.85 million - Out
-Todd Collins, $3.5 million - Out

-Clinton Portis, $12.1 million - Doubtful
-Fred Smoot, $5.4 million - Doubtful
-Casey Rabach, $3.5 million - Doubtful
-Ladell Betts, $2.5 million - Doubtful

-Cornelius Griffin, $2 million - Questionable
-Rock Cartwright, $1.6 million - Questionable

-Laron Landry, $5.7 million - Probable
I could see every one of these guys going in an uncapped year. Possibly trade Landry for a 2nd /3rd. I agree that we could see one or two Oline FA's but I would still draft at least 2 Olinemen in that scenario.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Guys to keep an eye on;

Broncos;Guards ben Hamilton+chris Kuper
Bucs;Tackles jeremy Trueblood+donald Penn

If uncapped all except Hamilton would be restricted free agents but if we could trade using our 4th or 5th rounders and a pick from 2011 then worth looking at.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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From ESPN Insider

If he's retained nothing else from his time at the University of Hawaii, at least Washington Redskins QB Colt Brennan still has a surfer's exuberance. Regarding a disappointing 2009 season where he was placed on IR in September, Brennan told the Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star, "I'm so glad that I'm a couple weeks from totally closing that chapter and moving on to something totally awesome." Totally.

But in addition to picking up the valley girl lingo, Brennan also set NCAA records while at Hawaii, so there is some hope that he'll be a suitable NFL starter some day.

Moving forward to 2010, Jason Campbell's future is up in the air, but many have speculated that he'll be elsewhere. Todd Collins -- who was born ten days before Intel released the world's first microprocessor on Nov. 15, 1971 -- is not the answer if this team is looking to the future. The options as we see it would be to retain Brennan (who is under a relatively-cheap contract through 2011), bring in a (younger than Collins) veteran, draft someone new, or some combination of the three.


Some other interesting ones:

The Baltimore Sun had word this past week that Troy Smith wanted a chance to be a legit NFL starter, and by our calculations, that means he's subtly angling for a trade or a release.

The demand for a trade may have already happened, and we learn about such things on Twitter from his agent Ralph Cindrich: "Ravens QB Troy Smith, Ohio State alum, native Heisman winner wants playing time. Ravens notified. Will seek trade after playoffs, SB run."


------------------------

Mike Holmgren -- the Cleveland Browns czar of all things football -- and Matt Hasselbeck have a lot of shared history. If the speculation this week from NFC West blogger Mike Sando becomes more than just speculation, that shared history might continue in 2010.

In discussing the three different options for the Seattle Seahawks related to Hasselbeck moving forward, Sando includes the possibility that the team could trade him; furthermore, Sando thinks that Holmgren and the Browns would be "a natural fit."

If the rumors are true that Holmgren wants to install some version of his West Coast offense in Cleveland, Hasselbeck might be the perfect option. We'll be interested to hear more on this as it develops this offseason.
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Old 12-29-2009, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Man, I just hope you guys patch your OL in FA and the Draft then give Colt a chance.
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Old 12-29-2009, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Man, I just hope you guys patch your OL in FA and the Draft then give Colt a chance.
Maybe but don't be surprised if he is cut by the new coach (likely Shanny), after FA/draft. He is Zorn's pet project and any film on him in the last 2 years won't provide a ringing endorsement. That being said he does deserve at least a chance somewhere.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Maybe but don't be surprised if he is cut by the new coach (likely Shanny), after FA/draft. He is Zorn's pet project and any film on him in the last 2 years won't provide a ringing endorsement. That being said he does deserve at least a chance somewhere.
I won't be surprised by anything. I know Colt's chances are slim to none.
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Anyone watch Okung today? I caught bits and pieces of the game but I forgot to pay attention to Okung in the little bit that i saw. i know robinson played like crap but hunter ran the ball well. like i said i did not watch enough to know though how specifically okung played.
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Old 01-02-2010, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Anyone watch Okung today? I caught bits and pieces of the game but I forgot to pay attention to Okung in the little bit that i saw. i know robinson played like crap but hunter ran the ball well. like i said i did not watch enough to know though how specifically okung played.
I saw most of the game and really didn't see much from Okung. Didn't play bad in the run game but nothing special overall. Didn't strike me as a player the Skins had to have over the other tackles in this draft.
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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I saw most of the game and really didn't see much from Okung. Didn't play bad in the run game but nothing special overall. Didn't strike me as a player the Skins had to have over the other tackles in this draft.
Turns out Okung was playing injured in the bowl game. Could be why he maybe didnt stand out but on the year he has only 1.5 sacks allowed which is incredibly impressive. He ends his career with 46 consecutive starts and anchors a line that gave up only 10 sacks on the entire season.

I love Davis upside but I dont think that theres an offensive lineman in the draft that is as ready to immediately contibute like Okung and we all know that we need a rookie that can start right away.

With that said, I am very much liking what Im seeing in Davis as well.
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