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View Poll Results: Who is your favorite philosopher(s)?
Ancient Philosophy (Aristotle, Plato) 13 19.40%
Scholasticism (St. Thomas Aquinas) 3 4.48%
Renaissance Humanism (Thomas More, Erasmus) 1 1.49%
Rationalism (Descartes, Voltaire, Kant) 18 26.87%
Empiricism, Social Contract (John Locke, David Hume) 11 16.42%
Social Materialism/Marxism (Karl Marx, Hegel) 6 8.96%
Existentialism (Kafka, Nietzsche) 7 10.45%
Post-Moderism/Structuralism (Derrida, Foucault, Nietzsche) 5 7.46%
Analytical Philosophy (Bertrand Russell, Wittgenstein) 1 1.49%
Structuralism (Levi-Strauss, Ferdinand de Saussure, Chomsky) 2 2.99%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-06-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
the decider13
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You can't just forgo a HUGE part of the Nazi ideal and then say you're a Nazi. You might believe part of what the Nazis believe, but you wouldn't identify yourself as a Nazi if they are persecuting the very group you are a part of.

How many read the program? I have no clue, but it's generally a good idea to know what the party you're voting for is about before filling in your ballot...
Now see...you are back to where you were before. Yes, getting rid of the Jews was a part of what Hitler wanted to do, but it wasn't the only thing that they wanted to do. Many people didn't even know what was going on and didn't know what the concentration camps were. They knew that they weren't being treated as citizens, but they might not have known that they were being rounded up until krystalnacht.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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So a person from the states couldn't be a member of a certain political party because they don't agree with one of their controversial policies...?
If that policy was a centrepoint to their views and it involves the persecution of their group, no, they wouldn't be a member of that political party.

Read the post where I showed the tenants the party was founded on. It's clearly anti-semetic. Why would a Jew want any involvement in a party that is going to persecute them, not allow them to hold office, and kill/kick them out of Germany?

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Old 05-06-2009, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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dude it wasnt the centrepoint
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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dude it wasnt the centrepoint
Nice argument. I posted the Nazi party's program. Clearly, anti-semetism is a center point of their beliefs.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Thanks.i clearly stated it wasnt, and told what it was before, but u didnt care. so whatever, im too lazy to continue to argue with you
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:12 PM    (permalink
the decider13
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If that policy was a centrepoint to their views and it involves the persecution of their group, no, they wouldn't be a member of that political party.

Read the post where I showed the tenants the party was founded on. It's clearly anti-semetic. Why would a Jew want any involvement in a party that is going to persecute them, not allow them to hold office, and kill/kick them out of Germany?
The center points were actually lebensraum, getting back the land for germany and restoring the vaterland to the greatness it was during the times of the holy roman empire and Bismark.
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i wish NFLDC had something like "wall to wall" where we could see Brodeur and Job's conversations.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Nice argument. I posted the Nazi party's program. Clearly, anti-semetism is a center point of their beliefs.
The center point of the Nazis was Ultra nationalism. If you read Mein Kampf Hitler spends much more time on communists and socialists than Jews.

The party started out with the SA beating up rivals political parties ( commies) before it came to power, not Jews. Antisemitism is certainly a point of the Nazi, but it's not the centerpiece of their platform.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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"who do you identify yourself closest to"
I cant really think of one. Maybe Hegel/Marx?
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Read the post where I showed the tenants the party was founded on. It's clearly anti-semetic. Why would a Jew want any involvement in a party that is going to persecute them, not allow them to hold office, and kill/kick them out of Germany?
Because quite a few people in Germany were Jewish to come extent but not so blatantly that they were found out by the SS. And to suggest that people can't be hypocritical, scared into participation, and easily forgetful of their personal morals for human interaction all in the name of self preservation is hugely naive.

Now, can we drop this?
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I cant really think of one. Maybe Hegel/Marx?
Prolly Marx. I also really love Plato, Aristotle and Sockrates
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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The center points were actually lebensraum, getting back the land for germany and restoring the vaterland to the greatness it was during the times of the holy roman empire and Bismark.
Do you know what lebensraum is? It involved the persecution of Jews...
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Prolly Marx. I also really love Plato, Aristotle and Sockrates
What did he study? Tube vs ankle socks?
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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What did he study? Tube vs ankle socks?
actually shoes and how they fit with socks
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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What did he study? Tube vs ankle socks?
His best book was Nylonachean Ethics.

(yes that was Aristotle, but go with it ppl)
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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I liked to play Devil's Advocate in my Rhet. classes and mess with people and see if they believed if Socrates was a real person or a fictional person that Plato made up. Basically, it was to see how much they knew because I am a jerk.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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The center point of the Nazis was Ultra nationalism. If you read Mein Kampf Hitler spends much more time on communists and socialists than Jews.
Communists and Jews are related in Hitler's view of the world...

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For centuries Russia drew nourishment from this Germanic nucleus of its upper leading strata. Today it can be regarded as almost totally exterminated and extinguished. It has been replaced by the Jew. Impossible as it is for the Russian by himself to shake off the yoke of the Jew by his own resources, it is equally impossible for the Jew to maintain the mighty empire forever. He himself is no element of organization, but a ferment of decomposition. The Persian empire in the east is ripe for collapse. And the end of Jewish rule in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state.
--- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf 4
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Do you actually know where the hate on jews came from? if u find that answer u find the thing we are saying
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:24 PM    (permalink
the decider13
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Do you know what lebensraum is? It involved the persecution of Jews...
lebensraum=living space

The Jews were just in the way. Ask the French, Austrians and Czech's if you had to be Jewish.
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i wish NFLDC had something like "wall to wall" where we could see Brodeur and Job's conversations.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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lebensraum=living space

The Jews were just in the way. Ask the French, Austrians and Czech's if you had to be Jewish.
I'm sorry, did I say it was only Jews?
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Communists and Jews are related in Hitler's view of the world...
Agreed. But can a communist not also be a non-jew? They're " related" but not coexistent.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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SWDC, keeping Godwin's Law alive...

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I liked to play Devil's Advocate in my Rhet. classes and mess with people and see if they believed if Socrates was a real person or a fictional person that Plato made up. Basically, it was to see how much they knew because I am a jerk.
The Socrates in the Republic may well be most fictional. Plato sort of had a an angry bitter lover thing going on when he wrote about Socrates. I hardly think we've gotten an honest picture of the guy.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitleTown088 View Post
Agreed. But can a communist not also be a non-jew? They're " related" but not coexistent.
Sure, you can be one but not the other. I never said that Nazi's persecuted Jews only. I would argue they persecuted Jews more feverently than any other group and blamed them for more of society's ills, but they had a laundry list of groups they persecuted.

This whole thing started when Gay Ork Wang made the claim that Jews supported Nazism. That is insane, unless you look at Paranoidmoonduck's view that some were doing it for self-preservation (which I agree is a possibility in some cases, but they didn't actually support/believe the Nazi ideal, they simply pretended to in order to increase their chance of survival).
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
SWDC, keeping Godwin's Law alive...
Haha, so true.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Manic Depressant View Post
This whole thing started when Gay Ork Wang made the claim that Jews supported Nazism. That is insane, unless you look at Paranoidmoonduck's view that some were doing it for self-preservation (which I agree is a possibility in some cases, but they didn't actually support/believe the Nazi ideal).
Yes, but how many half-Jews who were raised as catholic Germans did? How many quarter-Jews did? How many people with one Jewish grandparent (as Hitler allegedly had) fervently believed in the Nazi ideal?

The truth is that the Nazi party rode in on a reform platform, bound the military to their leader, and then rather secretly started to ethnically cleanse their country. Think about all the moments that people have supported people doing the wrong think for any reason (group-think, fear, ignorance, blind devotion, etc). The Nazi ideal was obviously greatly attractive to a lot of German people, and a great deal of those German people had Jewish blood.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Manic Depressant View Post
Sure, you can be one but not the other. I never said that Nazi's persecuted Jews only. I would argue they persecuted Jews more feverently than any other group and blamed them for more of society's ills, but they had a laundry list of groups they persecuted.

This whole thing started when Gay Ork Wang made the claim that Jews supported Nazism. That is insane, unless you look at Paranoidmoonduck's view that some were doing it for self-preservation (which I agree is a possibility in some cases, but they didn't actually support/believe the Nazi ideal, they simply pretended to in order to increase their chance of survival).
I've honestly been arguing for arguments sake. It all depends on what time you are talking about. After the final solution, I'm sure there were no Jew Nazis, because the Jews were being slaughtered by the Nazis. But when Hitler was elected, he was probably supported by Jews, as Hitler hadn't yet installed his jews are not citizens idea.

This argument is a lot of semantics and saying the same thing over and over. I think we have reached the end.
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