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View Poll Results: Who is your favorite philosopher(s)?
Ancient Philosophy (Aristotle, Plato) 13 19.40%
Scholasticism (St. Thomas Aquinas) 3 4.48%
Renaissance Humanism (Thomas More, Erasmus) 1 1.49%
Rationalism (Descartes, Voltaire, Kant) 18 26.87%
Empiricism, Social Contract (John Locke, David Hume) 11 16.42%
Social Materialism/Marxism (Karl Marx, Hegel) 6 8.96%
Existentialism (Kafka, Nietzsche) 7 10.45%
Post-Moderism/Structuralism (Derrida, Foucault, Nietzsche) 5 7.46%
Analytical Philosophy (Bertrand Russell, Wittgenstein) 1 1.49%
Structuralism (Levi-Strauss, Ferdinand de Saussure, Chomsky) 2 2.99%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-06-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
Manic Depressant
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Yes, but how many half-Jews who were raised as catholic Germans did? How many quarter-Jews did? How many people with one Jewish grandparent (as Hitler allegedly had) fervently believed in the Nazi ideal?

The truth is that the Nazi party rode in on a reform platform, bound the military to their leader, and then rather secretly started to ethnically cleanse their country. Think about all the moments that people have supported people doing the wrong think for any reason (group-think, fear, ignorance, blind devotion, etc). The Nazi ideal was obviously greatly attractive to a lot of German people, and a great deal of those German people had Jewish blood.
Those people wouldn't identify as Jews though...

I see what you're saying in terms of the Nazis misleading people. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying no people who identified as Jews would support Nazi views if they actually understood what they were.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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The Socrates in the Republic may well be most fictional. Plato sort of had a an angry bitter lover thing going on when he wrote about Socrates. I hardly think we've gotten an honest picture of the guy.
Most definitely. I mean, he seems like a great guy and all, but if someone is seemingly his best pupil and one of the closest followers (Plato), they're bound to portray him in a manner that is not likely the truth. Though, some argue that Plato's writings are all Socrates' views/thoughts. Sadly, we'll never know.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I've honestly been arguing for arguments sake. It all depends on what time you are talking about. After the final solution, I'm sure there were no Jew Nazis, because the Jews were being slaughtered by the Nazis. But when Hitler was elected, he was probably supported by Jews, as Hitler hadn't yet installed his jews are not citizens idea.

This argument is a lot of semantics and saying the same thing over and over. I think we have reached the end.
Actually, the Nazi party's platform (the one I posted) came out in 1920, long before they were elected.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Most definitely. I mean, he seems like a great guy and all, but if someone is seemingly his best pupil and one of the closest followers (Plato), they're bound to portray him in a manner that is not likely the truth. Though, some argue that Plato's writings are all Socrates' views/thoughts. Sadly, we'll never know.
That's what sucks about ancient philosophy. I feel it's primarily allegories, fables, etc. and not necessarily historical accounts but that is my viewpoint on most ancient literature.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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That's what sucks about ancient philosophy. I feel it's primarily allegories, fables, etc. and not necessarily historical accounts but that is my viewpoint on most ancient literature.
but, what matters more, the message or the truthiness?
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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the truthiness
My facts come from the gut.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Actually, the Nazi party's platform (the one I posted) came out in 1920, long before they were elected.
The link you posted displayed no date as to when the document was created. Give me better proof.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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The link you posted displayed no date as to when the document was created. Give me better proof.
i like facts. if it existed, there will always be a link.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying the document didn't / doesn't exist, I just want to look for it in other places, and verify when it was created.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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The link you posted displayed no date as to when the document was created. Give me better proof.
From Wikipedia, but it's sourced:

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The 25 point Program of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP) was proclaimed by Adolf Hitler at a large public gathering in Munich on February 24, 1920 when the group was still known as the German Workers Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or DAP).[4]
Another website: http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holo...re_1933_8.html

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The 1920 party platform, elaborated by Hitler and Drexler, included clauses concerning the army, the nation, society, the economy, and antisemitism.
Hitler Historical Museum: http://www.hitler.org/writings/programme/

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The 25 points of the NSDAP Program were composed by Adolf Hitler and Anton Drexler. They were publically presented on 24 February 1920 "to a crowd of almost two thousand and every single point was accepted amid jubilant approval." (Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter I) Hitler explained their purpose in the fifth chapter of the second volume of Mein Kampf:

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Old 05-06-2009, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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OK, proved that point. Someone look at some of these sites. The filter at school won't allow me to check them out.

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...zi+movement%3F
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Those people wouldn't identify as Jews though...

I see what you're saying in terms of the Nazis misleading people. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying no people who identified as Jews would support Nazi views if they actually understood what they were.
I don't think a great many people would have identified themselves as Jewish in Nazi Germany (just a gut feeling). It doesn't change the fact they were in some way or another.

That's the difference between religious genocide and ethnic genocide, especially when that ethnicity is so tightly intertwined with the people doing the cleansing.

So, yes. There were people who were technically Jewish and technically Nazis.

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That's what sucks about ancient philosophy. I feel it's primarily allegories, fables, etc. and not necessarily historical accounts but that is my viewpoint on most ancient literature.
I would say that most literature is like that, ancient or modern. Personally, I love old mythology and ancient philosophy (though I'm not crazy about Plato; The Republic bugged me) and there's tons there to inform and entertain. Much more fun to read that rationalism, that's for sure (I have a copy of Leviathan next to my bed for when I can't sleep).
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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The Republic bugged me
Oh? Why is that, if I may ask?
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Oh? Why is that, if I may ask?
Besides for a few parts, a lot of the dialouge is boring and heavy handed. There's really only so many times I can read a "conversation" between Socrates and Glaucon that ends in Glaucon stating what a genius Socrates is.

There are a few points of honest interest. But, for the most part, the Socratic Method makes for poor reading and a lot of the ideas espoused are caricatures of dissenting opinions.
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Besides for a few parts, a lot of the dialouge is boring and heavy handed. There's really only so many times I can read a "conversation" between Socrates and Glaucon that ends in Glaucon stating what a genius Socrates is.

There are a few points of honest interest. But, for the most part, the Socratic Method makes for poor reading and a lot of the ideas espoused are caricatures of dissenting opinions.
Fair enough. I know it's not the greatest piece to read but I didnt mind it. I think I had to read The Phaedrus like three times in college.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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I will not let Nazis ruin this thread.

What's everyone's opinion on Immanuel Kant.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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I will not let Nazis ruin this thread.

What's everyone's opinion on Immanuel Kant.
Again, I can't speak from experience on any of these things, but I heard that he thought that it was always wrong to lie, even if it could save someone's life. Now that's ******* stupid.

Do I have my story wrong?
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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What's everyone's opinion on Immanuel Kant.
Admittedly, one of my favorite professors who I developed a sort of friendship with studied Kant in Germany and was a huge fan of his, so I kind of developed an admiration for Kant but I cant say I agreed with everything he said. I thought his stuff on Schema was really interesting.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Admittedly, one of my favorite professors who I developed a sort of friendship with studied Kant in Germany and was a huge fan of his, so I kind of developed an admiration for Kant but I cant say I agreed with everything he said. I thought his stuff on Schema was really interesting.
From what I'm told, Kant is way better in German. His giant run-on sentences have more linking words to choose from in German than they do in English. Honestly, Kant may be one of the most impressively smart philosophers I've ever read, but his writing style handily defeats a good deal of the purpose of publishing philosophy, especially his style of philosophy. It's hard not to be impressed with the guy, even if he does seem like a callous bastard.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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From what I'm told, Kant is way better in German. His giant run-on sentences have more linking words to choose from in German than they do in English. Honestly, Kant may be one of the most impressively smart philosophers I've ever read, but his writing style handily defeats a good deal of the purpose of publishing philosophy, especially his style of philosophy. It's hard not to be impressed with the guy, even if he does seem like a callous bastard.
Yeah, the prof I was referring to was barely older than I was. He finished his PhD and then got another advanced degree in Germany before teaching here. Basically, I would read Kant and when I visited during office hours, he would help me to understand what I had read. He was pretty cool prof but kind of sad because his office was barren except as single poster of Douglas that just said "Rhetoric" below it. Also, he wore the same 5-6 outfits over and over haha.

So, again, admittedly, he had an effect on my appreciate of Kant. I still respect Kant but I cant say I agree with everything. Brilliant guy though.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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What's everyone's opinion on Immanuel Kant.
Well I voted post-modernism so..umm..not much.

He's better than Voltaire and Diderot, however, who were raging cockfaces.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:46 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
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What philosophy is it where you do things for your own personal pleasure? +rep
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:48 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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What philosophy is it where you do things for your own personal pleasure? +rep
That could be several, you have to be more specific.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:51 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
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That could be several, you have to be more specific.
Is it Hedonism that is strictly doing things for your own personal pleasure?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:52 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brent is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Is it Hedonism that is strictly doing things for your own personal pleasure?
Hedonism is thinking that pleasure is the most important thing.
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