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Old 05-17-2009, 05:03 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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yeah screw the #1 overall QB who has an 80 million dollar deal!
He's not screwed if the Oline class is deep. Plus free agency is an option.
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/featu...tion=OL&y=2010

Marcus McNeil and Logan Mankins might help if available.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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He's not screwed if the Oline class is deep. Plus free agency is an option.
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/featu...tion=OL&y=2010

Marcus McNeil and Logan Mankins might help if available.
come on man, be realistic. McNeill and Mankins come from two top teams in the AFC. Do you really think they're going to sign with a NFC bottom dweller? Detroit needs to get its act together through the draft before any free agent of a certain stature is going to want to come here.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:34 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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come on man, be realistic. McNeill and Mankins come from two top teams in the AFC. Do you really think they're going to sign with a NFC bottom dweller? Detroit needs to get its act together through the draft before any free agent of a certain stature is going to want to come here.
Depends how much money we offer compared to what others offer. I guess we'll never get a big name free agent ever again. Foote came from a top team, of course he's from this area though. San Diego is not a top team. I could see McNeil coming here. Mankins depends how much money he wants compared to how much winners/New England offers him. He seems to be a guy more about winning but we'll see what the Lions look like this year. If they are competive and improve as the year goes on, someone will come here. How did we convince any free agent to come here this year.
If no free agency, a Round 2 tackle can be successfull. Schwartz knows this with Roos. Most of the playoff teams didn't have a 1st round tackle and Backus is fine for 2009 and possibly 2010 depending how healthy he stays. I think I'd actually prefer the veteran tackle than a rookie tackle with Stafford in 2010.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Depends how much money we offer compared to what others offer. I guess we'll never get a big name free agent ever again. Foote came from a top team, of course he's from this area though. San Diego is not a top team. I could see McNeil coming here. Mankins depends how much money he wants compared to how much winners/New England offers him. He seems to be a guy more about winning but we'll see what the Lions look like this year. If they are competive and improve as the year goes on, someone will come here. How did we convince any free agent to come here this year.
If no free agency, a Round 2 tackle can be successfull. Schwartz knows this with Roos. Most of the playoff teams didn't have a 1st round tackle and Backus is fine for 2009 and possibly 2010 depending how healthy he stays. I think I'd actually prefer the veteran tackle than a rookie tackle with Stafford in 2010.
I'm sorry I must have missed all the big-name free agents we got to come in this year... like... ummm, who?
The thing is yes we can shell out money, but so can every other team in the NFL. The Lions don't win. Haven't for almost 5 decades. Unless there's little to no interest for other teams or Detroit REALLY showers you in benjamins you'll think twice before joining the Lions. Like you said, these guys are competitors, so they'll want to compete. Foote came here because he's from here, it's much like LeCharles Bentley coming to Cleveland (it didn't work out, but that's a different story).
Every year, it seems we have these great plans of signing this guy and then this guy, then we can draft our mancrushes and be competitive. The only problem is we never sign anyone save a few scrubs and veterans who either are on the decline or already have declined. Do you really think the FO, ever under Millen, didn't go after the guys the fans wanted? I think they did, but to no avail.

The NFL might be a business. But you can't deny that these players are people too. People want a good salary, but they also want to enjoy their work. Even if it's just work for them, they'll want to enjoy it as much as they can, and nobody enjoys losing (save a few sadomasochistic people, but that's beside the point). So any time a player needs to decide between us and a different team, they'll lean towards the other...simply because they'll want to win, compete and not be stuck on a team that went 0-16 and has been a complete trainwreck since before they were born.
Signing big-name free agents is something that just isn't going to happen as long as this team doesn't show that it can perform at least decently. What we need to get we need to get through the draft. We need to go from abysmal to bad and all the way to good, all using the draft. Then we can go from good to great with free agency. Not the other way around.
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry I must have missed all the big-name free agents we got to come in this year... like... ummm, who?
The thing is yes we can shell out money, but so can every other team in the NFL. The Lions don't win. Haven't for almost 5 decades. Unless there's little to no interest for other teams or Detroit REALLY showers you in benjamins you'll think twice before joining the Lions. Like you said, these guys are competitors, so they'll want to compete. Foote came here because he's from here, it's much like LeCharles Bentley coming to Cleveland (it didn't work out, but that's a different story).
Every year, it seems we have these great plans of signing this guy and then this guy, then we can draft our mancrushes and be competitive. The only problem is we never sign anyone save a few scrubs and veterans who either are on the decline or already have declined. Do you really think the FO, ever under Millen, didn't go after the guys the fans wanted? I think they did, but to no avail.

The NFL might be a business. But you can't deny that these players are people too. People want a good salary, but they also want to enjoy their work. Even if it's just work for them, they'll want to enjoy it as much as they can, and nobody enjoys losing (save a few sadomasochistic people, but that's beside the point). So any time a player needs to decide between us and a different team, they'll lean towards the other...simply because they'll want to win, compete and not be stuck on a team that went 0-16 and has been a complete trainwreck since before they were born.
Signing big-name free agents is something that just isn't going to happen as long as this team doesn't show that it can perform at least decently. What we need to get we need to get through the draft. We need to go from abysmal to bad and all the way to good, all using the draft. Then we can go from good to great with free agency. Not the other way around.
You underestimate the egos of these players. They want to be paid the most or very high salaires and they won't settle for less. Which is why people get paid more and more every year. I agree we need to build through the draft, but if we offer McNeil a boat load of money with this new coaching staff, I think we have a chance to get him if we feel he upgrades the LT position that much. Some players are leaving their teams for money. If New England low balls Mankins like they tend to do, we'll have a chance there. Good teams will have to be willing to pony up the dough which some of them are not and they must have a large need at LT or LG, which most of the good teams do not. So that only leaves the losing teams who we have to contend with for an LT or LG.

Money is how we got Bly, its how we got Woody after 2 and 3 years of losing. Its a new regime so the past failures of this teams players do forget about. The guys we added this year don't care about 0-16. Its a new story and they think they can make a difference(some can) and they didn't play for the Lions last year. Plus again they have egos so they think they can actually make the difference. Same goes with coaches(some can).

How did Arizona get Edge,Saints get Brees before they got good,Seattle get Housh on their decline.

Plus Oline class is deep. If we get an LT or stud G in Round 2 next year I won't complain. This defense needs a ton of work, especially the Dline. Oline is more dependent than the Round they are picked. With a good Qb, the QB makes the Oline better IMO. Plus there is blocking tight end aid of Pettigrew, and 4 other pieces to the Oline puzzle(one solved in Gosder). We'll find out about the interior more this year with Peterman resigned,Loper and Raiola healthy.

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Old 05-18-2009, 07:15 AM    (permalink
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I hope we get Greg Hardy or Carlos Dunlap or Gerald McCoy or Ndamokung Suh or Russell Okung or Everson Griffen or Taylor Mays or ... You seem to get the idea.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:16 AM    (permalink
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I am a trenches guy when all is said and done.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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I hope we get Greg Hardy or Carlos Dunlap or Gerald McCoy or Ndamokung Suh or Russell Okung or Everson Griffen or Taylor Mays or ... You seem to get the idea.
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I am a trenches guy when all is said and done.
you should try the edit button sometime... it's awesome.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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What do I need to edit? Is there a mistake? Was there a grammatical or spelling error? Is there a factual error? What exactly needs to be edited, Addict.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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IMO, signing even top FA's is a slippery slop. Teams that are winners think long and hard about which FA to release and few really good ones get let loose unless the top team feels replacing them isn't as tough as the player's egos may feel.
The risk in signing a top FA is immense, they may have played real well because they knew it was their opportunity to get a big contract and they don't play nearly as well once that incentive is removed.
Sometimes the best FA's come from financially strapped teams like Buffalo who simply cannot afford to retain their top guys, not from the top teams who release players because they know finding an adequate replacement for less money isn't as hard as people think.
The Yankees in baseball shelled out huge, immense sums to both their top FA's Teixeira and A.J. Burnett. Teixeira is batting .239 and Burnett has 2 wins and a 5.02 ERA. FA's usually don't do well their first year after signing for whatever reason. Sometimes they rebound in year 2 but many times they never approach what they previously accomplished after signing with another team.
The other point about FA's is that a team like Detroit must overpay for any chance at getting the top guys. Players want a big pay day first but all things being equal, they will sign with the team that has a real chance at competing and right now that isn't Detroit. So to sign them, we must offer more money than the others are willing to pay, and that carries a lot of dangers on a rebuilding team that needs cap space to maneuver.
We are far better off establishing a winning team, then going after top FA's to fill the gaps in the teams weaknesses than trying to sign them now and just spending money haphazardly. I just don't think signing FA's is the correct course to take for any losing team. Far better to approach FA from a position of strength where players actually want to sign with you because you have real potential to win, then you have a far better shot at FA's who place a premium on winning over just money.
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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What do I need to edit? Is there a mistake? Was there a grammatical or spelling error? Is there a factual error? What exactly needs to be edited, Addict.
back to back posts within 1 minute of posting. saves from inflating post count, which happens enough in gameday threads.
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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back to back posts within 1 minute of posting. saves from inflating post count, which happens enough in gameday threads.
pretty much this. If your own (short) post is the last in the thread and you still want to say something extra just edit it in... otherwise it's just filling.
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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Default I have 94 posts in a year.

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Old 05-22-2009, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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we really need some new draft information.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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we really need some new draft information.
how do you mean?

also Weasel, I was referring more to the fact that it just looks silly. Your post count and how much you value it isn't really my concern, I could care less.
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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there's too big of a delay in the action right now. there needs to be some kinda college all star drills or something. i'm also looking forward to the site relaunch.
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Old 05-24-2009, 06:45 AM    (permalink
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there's too big of a delay in the action right now. there needs to be some kinda college all star drills or something. i'm also looking forward to the site relaunch.
Yeah it's kind of slow at this point. But that's good. If it were all action the boards would get too crowded... that would totally block my mojo, if you know what I mean ;)
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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You underestimate the egos of these players. They want to be paid the most or very high salaires and they won't settle for less. Which is why people get paid more and more every year. I agree we need to build through the draft, but if we offer McNeil a boat load of money with this new coaching staff, I think we have a chance to get him if we feel he upgrades the LT position that much. Some players are leaving their teams for money. If New England low balls Mankins like they tend to do, we'll have a chance there. Good teams will have to be willing to pony up the dough which some of them are not and they must have a large need at LT or LG, which most of the good teams do not. So that only leaves the losing teams who we have to contend with for an LT or LG.

Money is how we got Bly, its how we got Woody after 2 and 3 years of losing. Its a new regime so the past failures of this teams players do forget about. The guys we added this year don't care about 0-16. Its a new story and they think they can make a difference(some can) and they didn't play for the Lions last year. Plus again they have egos so they think they can actually make the difference. Same goes with coaches(some can).

How did Arizona get Edge,Saints get Brees before they got good,Seattle get Housh on their decline.

Plus Oline class is deep. If we get an LT or stud G in Round 2 next year I won't complain. This defense needs a ton of work, especially the Dline. Oline is more dependent than the Round they are picked. With a good Qb, the QB makes the Oline better IMO. Plus there is blocking tight end aid of Pettigrew, and 4 other pieces to the Oline puzzle(one solved in Gosder). We'll find out about the interior more this year with Peterman resigned,Loper and Raiola healthy.
There is a reason McNeil slipped to round 2 in the draft. He has a narrowing of his spinal column which means his career could be very short. Besides if his spinal cord isn't a problem, he'll never be a FA. Solid LT's are never allowed to become FA's, they are always franchised or traded before that ever happens. If you want a stud LT, you have to get him in the draft.
Teams like NE or Pittsburgh or even the Colts will release starters if they ask for too much money, they know that most players are parts of a whole unless they are true impact players, and can be easily replaced by cheaper FA's who don't come from championship teams but have just as much ability as the player they are releasing. Overpaying players who were just parts of the whole with a ridiculous amount of money is non productive if you ask me unless your signee can offer real leadership perhaps.
NE can get veterans to sign with them as FA's because they offer a shot at a SB ring, not all FA's are looking just for top dollars, many want a shot at a ring because that is their life long goal as well and right now these types won't sign with Detroit. Signing big name FA's has rarely produced a champion in the NFL, hell, it isn't doing much for the Yankees anymore either. The only thing that works in the NFL is building through the draft and when you are close, filling the few remaining weaknesses with solid FA's. This is the formula we need to follow IMO.
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Old 05-24-2009, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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I just had a random thought and wanted to share it. The Lions should sign Vincent Jackson in 2010 when he becomes a FA. You guys would have a sick offense and that would help Stafford out a lot having two huge WRs and a huge TE.
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Old 05-24-2009, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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We should go DE with the Round 1 and then maybe trade back up into Round 1 for an OT. Assuming we have a high round 2 pick, and assuming the picks are going for cheap, Round 2 + Round 4 could get us somewhere in the 20's..
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Old 05-25-2009, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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lets see how backus plays before we do anything but regardless i think we need to go defense in round 1 next year
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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I think we need a future LT regardless of how well Backus plays. He definitley is good for 2009 but 2010 is iffy for him given his age.

I agree McNeil might not hit free agency since LT is important(depending on who else the Chargers have to sign, Merriman for instance) and Logan Mankins is more than just a part of a whole in New Engalnd. Mankins is a very good left guard. Draft is obviously the key, but if you can get a good player for the Oline in free agency, the Lions should do everything possible to do that because we need good players for the future. FA made Minnesotas Oline great through free agency with Hutch(most of their team with Winfield,Pat Williams,Jared Allen,Leber). Titans Oline got much better with Mawae and Jake Scott. Jets Oline got much better with Faneca who went to New York after a poor year in New York. So its not all building through the draft, one good FA that actually pans out(thats the key actually panning out which I think Mankins would) would be well worth the money. Players want both a chance of winning and money, but many times they feel they can be the difference. If the Lions show improvement to like 6 games this year, then players defintiely would see us heading in the right direction with this new staff. Therefore, I could see Mankins/McNeil wanting to sign here. Some players want money, some only want to win, some want a combo of both, for instance Jason Brown wanted money. Plus the good teams are usually more set on the Oline already, so the market is limited to poor teams. So the want to win argument is limited because only poor teams needing talent badly go for them.
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Old 05-25-2009, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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i love vincent jackson and have no idea how san diego could possibly let him walk.

lets draft our line talent instead of 30 year old or near 30 year old vets.
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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the reason i dont think we will draft OT in round one next year is because we passed on oher. If we didnt think backus could get the job done Oher should have been the obvious pick.

If there is a good OT in round 2 then we should take him and actually try to develop someone on our oline for once.
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyColtScout View Post
I just had a random thought and wanted to share it. The Lions should sign Vincent Jackson in 2010 when he becomes a FA. You guys would have a sick offense and that would help Stafford out a lot having two huge WRs and a huge TE.
We had THREE huge recievers on the same team. (Well Chuck wasn't that big.) That didn't work, I honestly believe that it is better to have one great receiver and two or three other complimentary receivers. Just not enough balls to go around it seems like. There have been cases were it has worked. Like Indy, Arizona, the Steelers in the 70's but that seems to be about it.
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