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View Poll Results: Who is going to win the NFC North in 2009?
Minnesota Vikings 26 41.94%
Chicago Bears 17 27.42%
Green Bay Packers 15 24.19%
Detroit Lions 4 6.45%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2009, 04:52 PM    (permalink
StorminNorman
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Originally Posted by Gay Ork Wang View Post
u are the lions :/ too lazy to list most of it
Of COURSE! I forgot how important the logo of a team was to its success on the field! I also forgot how much history impacts the present! Coach Wisenhunt must also have overlooked that - after all, he just led the Cardinals, a team whose history is just as woeful and pathetic as the Lions, to the Super Bowl.

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Originally Posted by Manic Depressant View Post
What makes you different than the Rams who went from 3-13 to 2-14?

What makes you different than the Chiefs who went from 4-12 to 2-14?

What makes you different than any other team that got worse from one season to the next?
That's a good question, and if I was going around saying there is no way we can have a bad year - it would be a relevant question. My response was not a prediction of the playoffs, it wasn't a prediction of so many wins - it was simply refuting the idiotic notion that the Lions have no chance of success in 2009.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by regoob2 View Post
The difference is those teams actually won a game. You guys are coming off the worst season in NFL history.
Miami was one play away from going 0-16. So that's really not a difference.

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The worst ever.
If you are going to do something, might as well be the best.

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You guys suck.
Clearly I am talking to a gentleman and a scholar.

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Its going to take more than 2 vet LBs to make anyone even consider you guys a mediocre team.
See, this is what's so great about the NFL. Speculation is irrelevant because it will be proven on the field. We will get to see just how mediocre the Lions really are.

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Your terrible.
It's spelled you're.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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See, this is what's so great about the NFL. Speculation is irrelevant because it will be proven on the field. We will get to see just how mediocre the Lions really are.
The Detroit Lions have always been Mediocre for the most part. The Lions total win percentage since they have been made is .462. The Lions havent had a winning season since 2000 and you are trying to tell us because of what Miami and Falcons did last year is going to the lions? You have to be joking. The Falcons had a great Off season before last year and The Dolphins did have a shocking year but it doesn't hurt when they got excellent QB play from Pennington.

That said the Lions are headed in the right direction but they still have lots of holes that still need to be fixed and filled. They will not make the playoffs. They might win at most 6 games and that's being very generous.

I like that you are an optimistic but this is taking it a little bit too far. Enjoy the rebuilding process but I wouldn't expect much from the Lions this year..Maybe in years to come they will become good.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by StorminNorman View Post
That's a good question, and if I was going around saying there is no way we can have a bad year - it would be a relevant question. My response was not a prediction of the playoffs, it wasn't a prediction of so many wins - it was simply refuting the idiotic notion that the Lions have no chance of success in 2009.
The whole point of this thread is predicting the future. We're dealing in probabilities. The reality is the Lions have far and away the highest probability to finish last in the NFC North.

Each of the Vikings, Bears, and Packers can be considered serious playoff contenders. The Lions cannot.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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The Detroit Lions have always been Mediocre for the most part.
Same could be said for the Cardinals before 2009. Same could be said before Saints, especially before this decade. If the Lions simply went through a coaching change, your worries would be more warranted - but the Lions also cleaned up the front office. Martin Mayhew has started his tenure wonderfully.

Quote:
The Lions total win percentage since they have been made is .462. The Lions havent had a winning season since 2000 and you are trying to tell us because of what Miami and Falcons did last year is going to the lions? You have to be joking.
I just don't understand how what a team did in 2003 has any impact on what the team will look like in 2009.

Quote:
The Falcons had a great Off season before last year and The Dolphins did have a shocking year but it doesn't hurt when they got excellent QB play from Pennington.
The Lions have had a great off season and Detroit may have very solid QB play from either Culpepper or Stafford.


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Originally Posted by Manic Depressant View Post
The whole point of this thread is predicting the future. We're dealing in probabilities. The reality is the Lions have far and away the highest probability to finish last in the NFC North.

Each of the Vikings, Bears, and Packers can be considered serious playoff contenders. The Lions cannot.
And all I am saying is that dismissing possibilities simply because they are not PROBABLE is ridiculous in the NFL as the improbable so frequently happens.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Same could be said for the Cardinals before 2009. Same could be said before Saints, especially before this decade. If the Lions simply went through a coaching change, your worries would be more warranted - but the Lions also cleaned up the front office. Martin Mayhew has started his tenure wonderfully.
Cardinals had a Superbowl MVP for a QB last year. The Saints had Drew Brees, one of the best Quarterbacks in the league. The Lions have a rookie QB and have Culpepper, who was terrible after moss left. Given it was only a couple games he played but they were god awful.

I have said this before, I like where the Lions are headed but expecting a change from 0-16 to considering them winning the NFC North is outrageous.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Cardinals had a Superbowl MVP for a QB last year. The Saints had Drew Brees, one of the best Quarterbacks in the league. The Lions have a rookie QB and have Culpepper, who was terrible after moss left. Given it was only a couple games he played but they were god awful.
Culpepper once was an NFL MVP candidate (if he had that year any other than Peyton's brecord setting year, he would have the award). While Culpepper didn't show any indication that player any more, neither did Warner for several years.

I have huge faith in Stafford, but I also think Culpepper could have a decent year this year. I don't think you can look at 2008 in predicting how Culpepper can do this year, nor can you really look at any point in his career. The philosophy now suits him very well, if Culpepper has any gas at all left - he should play well. If Culpepper is as done as he looked next year, Stafford will start early if not day 1. I do not expect Culpepper to perform in 2008 as well as Warner did, but he certainly has the ability to.

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I have said this before, I like where the Lions are headed but expecting a change from 0-16 to considering them winning the NFC North is outrageous.
I never stated I expect the Lions to win the NFC North. I just don't think they are light years away from the other teams in the division.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=24187

Part 2?
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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So because a fan was wrong a year ago, the Lions can never be good?
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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So because a fan was wrong a year ago, the Lions can never be good?
yes exactly!
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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So because a fan was wrong a year ago, the Lions can never be good?
If we go by your logic, we can never denounce any team, ever. The Lions are basically the definition of a franchise that will likely struggle next season and be the worst team in their division. If we can't say that about the Lions, we can't say it about anybody.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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What makes you different than the Rams who went from 3-13 to 2-14?

What makes you different than the Chiefs who went from 4-12 to 2-14?

What makes you different than any other team that got worse from one season to the next?
Because the Rams/Chiefs and others didn't change 11 or more starters between those two years. They kept their GM between 2007 and 2008, they kept their coaches and they kept the majoirty of their players. We changed a butt load of things. Sometimes it only takes a couple changes like Matt Ryan/coaching and Jake Long/Pennington. So with 11 changes, to say we have .01 % is just ignorant garbage. We have as good a chance of any losing team.

Saying the Lions are the Lions is just lazy and annoying. That statement indicates the Lions will never turn it around. With Millen, I'd probably agree with you, but he's gone.

Yes it will take Lions some time to gel. 5-6 wins is possible though and is much improved. Its not like the North rolls to wins against us any way. The games are usually close.

The Lions will have some big impact players. IMO you only need a couple of them if they are surrounded by a bunch of solid players. I think this is what the Lions have done, added a solid core of players. When people around you are better, you play better. With better coaching, you play better. I think we need one more on the Dline to trully be a competive team. Shaun Rogers and Mike Martz scheme for Colletto was the only difference between 7-9(3-3 in division) and 0-16. Think about that and you'll see why the Lions have the ability to turn it around every year no matter what.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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why are we talking about football anyways
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:56 AM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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The Detroit Lions have always been Mediocre for the most part. The Lions total win percentage since they have been made is .462. The Lions havent had a winning season since 2000 and you are trying to tell us because of what Miami and Falcons did last year is going to the lions? You have to be joking. The Falcons had a great Off season before last year and The Dolphins did have a shocking year but it doesn't hurt when they got excellent QB play from Pennington.

That said the Lions are headed in the right direction but they still have lots of holes that still need to be fixed and filled. They will not make the playoffs. They might win at most 6 games and that's being very generous.

I like that you are an optimistic but this is taking it a little bit too far. Enjoy the rebuilding process but I wouldn't expect much from the Lions this year..Maybe in years to come they will become good.
Yes 8 losing years. 8 years of Millen. Coincidence I think not. And those 8 years of losing have really very little to do with the Lions 2009 roster and coaches. Even the 2008 roster is almost completely different than the 2009 roster. The Lions made the playoffs 6 times out of 10 in the 90s in the free agency era. 9-7 in 2000.They can be a competive playoff team which is what we are talking about here. Without Millen, we can be a competive team I truly believe that. 2009 5-6 wins is probably the max because it all starts with the QB so Daunte has to improve or Stafford has to be good as a rookie, but with so many changes who knows. I've seen 1-2 changes with coaching drastically change things in this league. Hell Bears went to be seen as mediocre to deep playoff team because of one guy,Dolphins/Falcons last year. So with well over half a new roster/new coaches and GM(who appears to be intelligent overhauling his roster,hiring Schwartz, smart trades(Roy,trade back in 3rd),drafting a potential franchise QB) plus keeping the good players, well things could be drastically changed too in Detroit.
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Old 05-15-2009, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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If we go by your logic, we can never denounce any team, ever. The Lions are basically the definition of a franchise that will likely struggle next season and be the worst team in their division. If we can't say that about the Lions, we can't say it about anybody.
Exactly! And that's the beauty of the NFL! You can never dismiss ANY team in the preseason.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Exactly! And that's the beauty of the NFL! You can never dismiss ANY team in the preseason.
I guess you missed the point of this thread then...
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GB12
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=24187

Part 2?
Ha that is a very funny thread to look back on great read now that we know what happened. There are a few simularities between some of the lions fans arguements from than and now.

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Exactly! And that's the beauty of the NFL! You can never dismiss ANY team in the preseason.
Of course you can dismiss exteremly bad teams before the season starts. That is the true beauty of the NFL because inevitably 1 or 2 of the dismissed teams will surprise you. But you can't just go around using those surprises to justify giving every ****** team some respect. It is called a surprise for a reason because the majority of people aren't expecting it.


From what I have read in this thread you seem to just want the other NFC north fans to give the lions some respect.
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Originally Posted by StorminNorman
People overstate how far behind the Lions are.

Minnesota is my favorite for the Division.
Just to say that the lions aren't that far away from the rest of the pack. But why should they what have the Lions done to earn this? . . .

Yes, anything can happen in the NFL we all know that, but just because it CAN happen doesn't mean it will or that opposing fans should give some respect to a ****** team just because there is a small possibility they could be good.

Sure they made a lot of changes, but every bad team in the NFL made changes in their roster and/or coaching staff this year. Just because the Lions were the worst and thus made the most changes doesn't mean they should get a good amount more respect this year.

It's not like they went out and added a bunch of excellent players that will all definatly make big impacts this season. The only real good player added this year is Julian Peterson. Other than him it's just a bunch of mediocre-solid vets and some rookies. Re-read the thread GB12 posted in there they have a similar arguement about the change in the coaching staff and, all the new players they added last year and how they were going to improve the team. Did they improve them? Nope, that doesn't mean this year they won't improve because undoubtly you will win more than 0 games. But just because you add a bunch of different players not mean they have made a huge improvement.

The Lions are a better team than last year but they have not done anything that should make any one consider them as significantly closing the gap on the rest of the division. The Bears, Packers, and the Vikings all have pretty good chances at competing for a playoff spot this season. While I agree the difference may be a bit overstated, it's not by much. The Lions while improved are still at this point a good ways from the other 3 teams.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Exactly! And that's the beauty of the NFL! You can never dismiss ANY team in the preseason.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:20 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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Ha that is a very funny thread to look back on great read now that we know what happened. There are a few simularities between some of the lions fans arguements from than and now.



Of course you can dismiss exteremly bad teams before the season starts. That is the true beauty of the NFL because inevitably 1 or 2 of the dismissed teams will surprise you. But you can't just go around using those surprises to justify giving every ****** team some respect. It is called a surprise for a reason because the majority of people aren't expecting it.


From what I have read in this thread you seem to just want the other NFC north fans to give the lions some respect. Just to say that the lions aren't that far away from the rest of the pack. But why should they what have the Lions done to earn this? . . .

Yes, anything can happen in the NFL we all know that, but just because it CAN happen doesn't mean it will or that opposing fans should give some respect to a ****** team just because there is a small possibility they could be good.

Sure they made a lot of changes, but every bad team in the NFL made changes in their roster and/or coaching staff this year. Just because the Lions were the worst and thus made the most changes doesn't mean they should get a good amount more respect this year.

It's not like they went out and added a bunch of excellent players that will all definatly make big impacts this season. The only real good player added this year is Julian Peterson. Other than him it's just a bunch of mediocre-solid vets and some rookies. Re-read the thread GB12 posted in there they have a similar arguement about the change in the coaching staff and, all the new players they added last year and how they were going to improve the team. Did they improve them? Nope, that doesn't mean this year they won't improve because undoubtly you will win more than 0 games. But just because you add a bunch of different players not mean they have made a huge improvement.

The Lions are a better team than last year but they have not done anything that should make any one consider them as significantly closing the gap on the rest of the division. The Bears, Packers, and the Vikings all have pretty good chances at competing for a playoff spot this season. While I agree the difference may be a bit overstated, it's not by much. The Lions while improved are still at this point a good ways from the other 3 teams.
You know what I agree. Who cares about respect at this point, its May. Plus its fans of the other North teams, they shouldn't give respect anyway. We should all hate each others teams no matter what. I think everyone has agreed that the Lions have improved, some only slightly,some a good/decent amount(Lions fans) and then nobody in their right mind thinks its significant enough improvement to be a definite playoff team(not even Lions fans except for Tactica probably lol). How much improvement is to be determined with the season. Just because players failed(Millen/Marinelli players) doesn't mean that our over 11 new starters will fail this year from Mayhew/Scwartz. They have just as good a chance of any other LOSING team to suprise. But as you said its a suprise. Over 11 starters is a massive massive change in the NFL so a suprise is not out of the question and if it happens we'll know the reason why. The many new players won't necessarily gurantee to significantly improve the team either but its a start in the right direction.

However, I will say these free agents have a better track record than the free agents last year by far. Which is why people(non Lions fans) think the Lions improved even slightly whereas last year nobody thought we improved which we didn't losing Shaun Rogers/Martz(except for most Lions fans,myself included). Peterson is a stud SAM especially when compared to Nece, Foote is a very solid player cut for cap reasons especially when compared to Paris Lenon, Grady Jackson will cause problems due to his size(especially when compared to undersized nose Chuck Darby), Buchanon and Henry are far from great but solid so we are about the same at corner, just new names. Secondary will be an issue IMO. Rookies are rookies but they can have a big impact if they play and live up to the hype so Pettigrew and Delmas are just as impactful as any other player like Harvin/Raji/Matthews. Throw that on top of other solid players the Lions kept(some not all), and the improvment builds on itself making a suprise an option.

With it being May, everyone is optimistic. Bears fans are optimistic with Cutler but he hasn't proven anything either in a Bears uni and new Ron Turner offense. Especially with a lack of weapons. Green Bay was 6-10 and are switiching to the 3-4 that they may or may not fit. They haven't proven anything either. Vikings are the team to beat with only QB issues/suspension issues setting them back. Sage/TJ have a lot on their shoulders because clearly you can't win playoff games in this league without a QB or historic defense. Playoffs isn't a suprise for those teams, but each of these teams have to prove they can go deep in the playoffs just like the Lions have to prove they have significantly improved with this roster/coaching/GM overhaul. The Lions can compete head to head because North games are usually close. The rest of the schedule its up to your team to prove their worth.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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bears weapons are underrated. they lack weapons in form of WRs, its not like they lack weapons at all
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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I mainly picked Minnesota because of defense and the fact that Jay Cutler is going to have to do A LOT of work in Chi Town. Like previously mentioned, he's going to be seeing sometime on the turf and will have less valued wide receivers to throw to.
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Olsen, Hester, and Forte are weapons on offense, and good ones at that. It's not like Jay will have dog **** around him. If anything our offense is going to be better, we didn't change much will our skill positions and we added a Pro Bowl QB. The question we all have is about the defense.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Olsen, Hester, and Forte are weapons on offense, and good ones at that. It's not like Jay will have dog **** around him. If anything our offense is going to be better, we didn't change much will our skill positions and we added a Pro Bowl QB. The question we all have is about the defense.
I agree, IMO the Bears biggest weakness last year was the pass defense. They did nothing to address the pass rush and very little to address the secondary. I think the only addition to the secondary was in the draft and none of those will likely make a big impact.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Yes no weapons is an exaggeration for the Bears. Lack of number 1 receiver by far should be the statement. I think Hester can be a Eddie Royal type and get 800-900 yards and a half dozen tds. Same type of receiver. Olsen is a good TE weapon/redzone guy and Forte is good but has to work on that YPC. Cutler definitley helps the focus on Forte. Bears won't be top 5 or anything in O like Cutler was last year, but they'll be improved for sure borderline top 10 range. And with that defense way better than the Broncos, that might be all they need if Cutler can limit the ints.
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Old 05-24-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...1&#post1155271

for the guy that said Shaun Rogers alone made them win 7 wins
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