NFC North vs. NFC South: Best Division All-Pro Team

[Draft King]

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

The NFC South would roll through this competition if it were a competition for teams with the biggest homers.

Meh, at least I gave reasoning for my choices. For the most part I thought I graded them pretty fairly. I said your D-Line is better than ours, and I said our LB's are slightly better. I also gave the secondary a wash which I don't believe is unreasonable. If I was to choose a defense I would side with the North, because the one place I feel we're more effective (LB), it's still a close call.

Offense on the other hand I think we are better. I still think we have the better receivers, you take RB, we take QB, we take TE, the OL would either be a wash or go to you guys slightly. I don't think any of that is unreasonable or very homerish. Maybe I came off as cocky when I first made that, but that's just the way I feel with the situation.

As for us all being homers, everybody is at times. BlindSite of course has had his fair share of moments, but I do recall seeing some of yours as well. I tried my best to give fair reasoning and the least amount of bias I could. The Detroit Lions can take this win I suppose, it'll probably be the only one they get all year.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by BlindSite

Smith has been a dominant force for nearly five years now, megatron is only just cutting his teeth and yes, his athletic abilities lend to him becoming potentially the greatest player ever at his position his poor grooming at the college level, altering systems and poor QB play mean he's still extremely under developed in his routes and technical abilities.

In yet somehow with all of that he still posted 78/1300/12 vs Steve Smith's 78/1400/6, so what does that tell you?


Touchdowns score points, and if Calvin is only "cutting his teeth" as you say I wonder what type of potential he has an a team as good as this one here? It wouldn't even be close.

[etk]

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

The NFC South would roll through this competition if it were a competition for teams with the biggest homers.

I don't know any regular Bucs posters on this board that are homers. Attacking us because you can't handle an argument and prove your points is pretty low. But I'm sure you feel real cool now because there are dozens of like-minded NFC North fans to back you up, just like a high school bully.

[someone447]

Originally Posted by diabsoule

NFC North

QB Jay Cutler (CHI)
RB Adrian Peterson (MIN)
FB Naufahu Tahi (MIN)
WR Calvin Johnson (DET)
WR Greg Jennings (GB)
TE Greg Olsen (CHI)
LT Bryant McKinney (MIN)
LG Steve Hutchinson (MIN)
C Olin Kreutz (CHI)
G Anthony Herrera (MIN)
RT Mark Tauscher (GB)

DE Jared Allen (MIN)
DT Pat Williams (MIN)
DT Kevin Williams (MIN)
DE Aaron Kampman (GB)
OLB Lance Briggs (CHI)
MLB Brian Urlacher (CHI)
OLB Chad Greenway (MIN)
CB Charles Woodson (GB)
CB Antoine Winfield (MIN)
FS Nick Collins (GB)
SS Kevin Payne (CHI)

5 Notable Reserves: QB Aaron Rodgers (GB), RB Matt Forte (CHI), WR Devin Hester (CHI), CB Charles Tillman (CHI), WR Bernard Berrian (MIN)


NFC South

QB Drew Brees (NO)
RB Michael Turner (ATL)
FB Ovie Mughelli (ATL)
WR Steve Smith (CAR)
WR Roddy White (ATL)
TE Tony Gonzalez (ATL)
LT Jordan Gross (CAR)
LG Arron Sears (TB)
C Jeff Faine (TB)
RG Jahri Evans (NO)
RT Jammal Brown (NO)

DE Julius Peppers (CAR)
DT Jonathan Babineaux (ATL)
DT Sedrick Ellis (NO)
DE John Abraham (ATL)
SLB Jonathan Vilma (NO)
MLB Barrett Ruud (TB)
WLB Jon Beason (CAR)
CB Chris Gamble (CAR)
CB Richard Marshall (CAR)
FS Tanard Jackson (TB)
SS Chris Harris (CAR)

5 Notable Reserves: RB DeAngelo Williams (CAR), DE Will Smith (NO), RB Reggie Bush (NO), WR Marques Colston (NO), TE Kellen Winslow Jr (TB)

QB-Medium Edge to South
RB-Huge Edge to North
WR-Johnson takes a small edge over Smith
WR-White and Jennings are a wash
Oline- Slight edge to North
TE-Large edge to South
DE-Small edge to South
DT-Large edge to North
SAM-Edge to South
WILL-small edge to north
MIKE-edge to north
CB-Woodson over Gamble by a decent amount
CB-Winfield over Marshal by a small amount
S-Collins over Jackson
S-Harris over pain

I give it to the North by a good amount.

[BamaFalcon59]

Oh, and no OL from the best OL in the conference last season is silly. Blalock is better than Sears, Clabo (last season) was superior to brown, and McClure didn't give up a sack all season.

[TitleTown088]

Originally Posted by etk

I don't know any regular Bucs posters on this board that are homers. Attacking us because you can't handle an argument and prove your points is pretty low. But I'm sure you feel real cool now because there are dozens of like-minded NFC North fans to back you up, just like a high school bully.

Ha, chill out. I wasn't angry when I said it just an observation.

[BamaFalcon59]

Originally Posted by someone447

QB-Medium Edge to South
RB-Huge Edge to North
WR-Johnson takes a small edge over Smith
WR-White and Jennings are a wash
Oline- Slight edge to North
TE-Large edge to South
DE-Small edge to South
DT-Large edge to North
SAM-Edge to South
WILL-small edge to north
MIKE-edge to north
CB-Woodson over Gamble by a decent amount
CB-Winfield over Marshal by a small amount
S-Collins over Jackson
S-Harris over pain

I give it to the North by a good amount.

You have to be kidding. Drew Brees is a medium edge over Cutler, but AP is a huge edge over Turner? That is a joke. Also, CJ has done nothing to be better than Steve Smith. Roddy is better than Jennings, statistically, and is a more complete player.

[TitleTown088]

Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59

Roddy is better than Jennings, statistically, and is a more complete player.

Statistically Jennings had a better YPC average and more 2 TDs. White had 90 more yards.

Statistically it's a wash.

Statistically, I'd personally take 2 TDs over 90 yards.

[Gay Ork Wang]

so much homerism contained in one place

[BamaFalcon59]

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

Statistically Jennings had a better YPC average and more 2 TDs. White had 90 more yards.

Statistically it's a wash.

Statistically, I'd personally take 2 TDs over 90 yards.

White has the clear edge in two of the three primary catagories for wide receivers (receptions, yards, touchdowns). And he did it with inferior QB play on teams that passed the ball less than the Packers did.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59

You have to be kidding. Drew Brees is a medium edge over Cutler, but AP is a huge edge over Turner? That is a joke. Also, CJ has done nothing to be better than Steve Smith. Roddy is better than Jennings, statistically, and is a more complete player.

You do realize that Adrian Peterson plays for the Vikings and that Calvin Johnson plays for the Lions, don't you? Jackson + Orlovski all day.

[GB12]

Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59

White has the clear edge in two of the three primary catagories for wide receivers (receptions, yards, touchdowns). And he did it with inferior QB play on teams that passed the ball less than the Packers did.

Ok, you can't go both ways on that. White saw the ball more than Jennings did, so the fact that you passed the ball less doesn't mean **** here. Personally I think the reception stat is ridiculous to use in any argument. It doesn't matter how many catches you have, it's what you do with what you get.

Jennings statistically had the better season, and it's not really debatable. White had 8 more catches and 90 more yards; Jennings had 2 more TDs and an average that was a full yard better than White's. It is no question of which of those is better statistically.

If you want to argue that White is better fine, but don't use the statistical argument because there is no way he wins that.

I think that White and Jennings are about even. If you're comparing the teams position by position then these two should just cancel each other out.

[Caddy]

Yeah I seriously doubt Calvin Johnson should be considered a better player than Steve Smith.

[GB12]

Originally Posted by etk

lol this is pretty funny. NFC South was one of the best divisions in football last year. NFC North was one of the worst.

Yet the NFC North has over 3/4 of the votes. Pretty unbiased, eh?

I'm sorry but Brees to Smith, White, Gonzalez, Bryant, Shockey, Colston, Winslow, etc. would TORCH the NFC North secondary.

That doesn't mean ****. It's taking the best players from each division and comparing them, not comparing each team.

Or they're just better. I already said earlier that if you take out the fans from the participating divisions the North still wins 32-10.

There is no "Bryant, Shockey, Colston, Winslow, etc.". It's Smith, White and Gonzalez only. And the North secondary would be able to handle them a lot better than the South seconday would be able to handle Jennings, Johnson, and Olsen.

[someone447]

Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59

You have to be kidding. Drew Brees is a medium edge over Cutler, but AP is a huge edge over Turner? That is a joke. Also, CJ has done nothing to be better than Steve Smith. Roddy is better than Jennings, statistically, and is a more complete player.

I am a huge Cutler fan, I have been since his rookie year. I'll admit I may have overrated him. AP had no one, put him on a team with a QB and he hits 2000. He is by far the best RB in the league, it isn't even close. CJ and Steve Smith are both amazing receivers. I give it to CJ because he is an absolute freak, and he also doesn't have another weapon on his team. He doesn't have a QB. Jennings is severely underrated by anyone who isn't a Packer fan. White and Jennings are a wash, they are both very good, albeit different receivers.

[someone447]

By the way, nobody torches Charles Woodson.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by someone447

I am a huge Cutler fan, I have been since his rookie year. I'll admit I may have overrated him. AP had no one, put him on a team with a QB and he hits 2000. He is by far the best RB in the league, it isn't even close. CJ and Steve Smith are both amazing receivers. I give it to CJ because he is an absolute freak, and he also doesn't have another weapon on his team. He doesn't have a QB. Jennings is severely underrated by anyone who isn't a Packer fan. White and Jennings are a wash, they are both very good, albeit different receivers.

Being an 'absolute freak' does not a great player make. Steve Smith > Calvin Johnson.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by Caddy

Being an 'absolute freak' does not a great player make. Steve Smith > Calvin Johnson.

Says what? Calvin doubled his TD totals this past season with a far worse QB, far worse offense, far worse team, their numbers were pretty much even across the board except that Calvin doubled his TD totals.


So what evidence are you guys using that Steve Smith is better? Call me crazy, but put Steve Smith on the Lions and he's nowhere close to 1300 yds and 12 TD's.

[Scotty D]

Originally Posted by Caddy

Yeah I seriously doubt Calvin Johnson should be considered a better player than Steve Smith.

So going into next season you'd take Smith over Calvin?

[GB12]

Originally Posted by Scotty D

So going into next season you'd take Smith over Calvin?

I would not take any WR over Calvin Johnson for 2009.

[Beans]

as an nfc south fan i kind of prefer calvin johnson but thats just me

carry on

[jsa230]

Either pair of wrs would be amazing and they would compliment each other perfectly. I would take CJ and Jennings all day but Smith+White would kill too. I think what it comes down to is personal preference. My preference is the tall, young receiver on the upswing rather than a receiver, albeit great, that is probably going downhill.

[Crazy_Chris]

Originally Posted by diabsoule

The Saints held AP to 32 rushing. The Falcons limited him to 76, the Panthes to 77, and the Bucs to 85.

I think this game would be closer than people give it credit for.

The Saints did an excellent job against AP, the Falcons did well too. The other two AP was only held to not have as may touches he averaged 4.5 YPC against Carolina and Tampa.

But what those teams did against him during the season is really quite irrealevant to this. You just cannot compare what they did against AP with Gus Frerotee/Tarvaris Jackson and the Vikings offense, to what they could do against an AP with Cutler/Rodgers, Jennings, and Johnson.

[SchizophrenicBatman]

I came in here wanting to vote South because I think if you matched up the North vs South 1-4 the South has decent odds at going 4-0...but on the all-pro teams, it just doesnt work out that way

the offense goes to the south for sure. Brees > Cutler. AD is a force at RB, but the South has the guys who come closest to him ATM, and its stable (which matters in the NFL) is >>> Forte and Taylor. The South's line should have more Panthers IMO, they were prob a top 5 OLine last season. Fix that and the OL isn't close with the better players on the North line getting old. Receiving corps to the South (argue all you want about the WRs but Gonzalez and KW2 > Olsen and whoever)

but dear god the South's defense is brutal. The DTs are a joke, I'm not even sure if I want Richard Marshall as a starting CB for the Panthers this year and he's on the all-division team, wow. Big, big win for the north there

add in coaching staffs and it might even it up some, but I doubt it. The numbers dont lie here, the North's team is better. Their second team would be garbage, though

[Michigan]

Originally Posted by etk

lol this is pretty funny. NFC South was one of the best divisions in football last year. NFC North was one of the worst.

Yet the NFC North has over 3/4 of the votes. Pretty unbiased, eh?

I'm sorry but Brees to Smith, White, Gonzalez, Bryant, Shockey, Colston, Winslow, etc. would TORCH the NFC North secondary.

No one torches Charles Woodson.