Round 2: NFC East vs. NFC North - Best Division All-Pro Team

diabsoule · 05-16-2009, 04:15 PM

NFC East

QB- Eli Manning (NYG)
RB- Brian Westbrook (PHI)
FB- Madison Hedgecock (NYG)
WR- Roy Williams (DAL)
WR- Santana Moss (WSH)
TE- Jason Witten (DAL)
LT- David Diehl (NYG)
LG- Chris Snee (NYG)
C- Shaun O'Hara (NYG)
RG- Leonard Davis (DAL)
RT- Jason Peters (PHI)

DE- Justin Tuck (NYG)
DT- Brodrick Bunkley (PHI)
DT- Albert Haynesworth (WSH)
DE- Osi Umenyiora (NYG)
LB- DeMarcus Ware (DAL)
LB- London Fletcher-Baker (WSH)
LB- Michael Boley (NYG
CB- Sheldon Brown (PHI)
FS- LaRon Landry (WSH)
SS- Quintin Mikell (PHI)
CB- Corey Webster (NYG)

7 Notable Reserves: QB Donavon McNabb (PHI), RB Brandon Jacobs (NYG), RB Clinton Portis (WAS), CB Terrance Newman (DAL), CB Asante Samuel (PHI), DE Trent Cole (PHI), PR/KR DeSean Jackson (PHI)

NFC North

QB Jay Cutler (CHI)
RB Adrian Peterson (MIN)
FB Naufahu Tahi (MIN)
WR Calvin Johnson (DET)
WR Greg Jennings (GB)
TE Greg Olsen (CHI)
LT Bryant McKinney (MIN)
LG Steve Hutchinson (MIN)
C Olin Kreutz (CHI)
G Anthony Herrera (MIN)
RT Kevin Shaffer (CHI)

DE Jared Allen (MIN)
DT Pat Williams (MIN)
DT Kevin Williams (MIN)
DE Aaron Kampman (GB)
OLB Lance Briggs (CHI)
MLB Brian Urlacher (CHI)
OLB Chad Greenway (MIN)
CB Charles Woodson (GB)
CB Antoine Winfield (MIN)
FS Nick Collins (GB)
SS Kevin Payne (CHI)

7 Notable Reserves: QB Aaron Rodgers (GB), RB Matt Forte (CHI), KR/PR Devin Hester (CHI), CB Charles Tillman (CHI), WR Bernard Berrian (MIN), WR Donald Driver (GB), LB A.J. Hawk (GB)

BeerBaron · 05-16-2009, 04:53 PM

Still not in love with the East's offense. The North's D is going to crush the run up front and make Manning beat them, something I don't know if he can do throwing to those weapons.

eaglesalltheway · 05-16-2009, 05:00 PM

This is really close, I've been thinkinf for a while now, I'm being unbiased, so here it goes.

As far as matchups go, here it is...
East receivers vs North coverage. Advantage: East, but just barely. These are the two weaknesses when these two units are on the field. Charles Woodson is the bright spot in that secondary, and Witten is the bright spot for the receivers. Witten is the top TE in the NFL, IMO, and though they won't be matched up on eachother, I'm trying to compare the best thing the North has there. Woodson is a great CB, one of the tops in the league, I'd say top 4-8, depending on you opinion. Witten is either the #1 or #2 TE, however you see it. The rest of the matchup (Winfield, Payne, Collins) vs (Williams, Moss, DeSean) is pretty much a wash. But key contributors for the North is terms of coverage will come from Brian Urlacher, and key help on offense, receiving-wise, will come from Westbrook.

OK, I can't to that 5 more times, it'd be a waste of time, so i'm just going to say which way I think it goes and if anyone feels incredibly offended by it, or doesn't agree with it, I'll explain...

East Rushing vs North Run Stopping. Advantage: North, also slightly.

East Pass Protection vs. North pass rush. Advantage: East, again close.

North Receivers vs East coverage. Advantage: Draw. This is the best part of this matchup, IMO. If I had to swign either way, I'd say North, as they have three legitimate weapns in CJ, Jennings, and Olsen, as well as threats in Forte and Driver.

North Rushing vs East Run Stopping. Advantage: East, very close. I'll elaborat as many will wonder here. Any time AD is on you have a distinct advantage, but the East's DL is a force stopping the run, and the LB corp is solid as well. I said it in the matchup vs the NFC S, I think that O-line is weak, in comparison to some other teams...

North Pass Protection vs. East Pass Rushing. Advantage: East. Ware, Osi, Tuck, Albert against that Ol is a mismatch in favor of the East. This may be the biggest disparity here.

I think the matchups are won and lost in the trenches, and the two DLs are strengths on each team. I think the North's OL is not as good as the East's, and therefore, the East's DL will be able to make more of an impact than the North's.

OSUGiants17 · 05-16-2009, 05:19 PM

I'm a Giants fan and I still think that the North would win this one.

AntoinCD · 05-16-2009, 05:29 PM

Ive got to go with the NFC North on this one. Both defensive lines are ridiculous, but I have to give the LBs for the North the edge. D-Ware at SAM in a 43 is a bit iffy but he would give an amazing threat in blitz packages. Offensviely the East isn't that great especially passing wise outside of Witten and it would be so tough to run on the NFC North. There is a significant weakness at safety for the NFC North, however when you look at their offense with Cutler, AD, Calvin Johnson and Greg Jennings it would be so hard to stop them. Think about it-top 10 QB, probably the top RB and two top 10 WRs, plus Greg Olsen who I personally think is very underrated. If that O-line can give Cutler any time at all then it's an easy win for the North but with the East's pass rush it becomes a lot closer. The edge is because the North will be able to run on the East better than the East can run on the North

Mr. Stiller · 05-16-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

NFC East

QB- Eli Manning (NYG)
RB- Brian Westbrook (PHI)
FB- Madison Hedgecock (NYG)
WR- Roy Williams (DAL)
WR- Santana Moss (WSH)
TE- Jason Witten (DAL)
LT- David Diehl (NYG)
LG- Chris Snee (NYG)
C- Shaun O'Hara (NYG)
RG- Leonard Davis (DAL)
RT- Jason Peters (PHI)

DE- Justin Tuck (NYG)
DT- Brodrick Bunkley (PHI)
DT- Albert Haynesworth (WSH)
DE- Osi Umenyiora (NYG)
LB- DeMarcus Ware (DAL)
LB- London Fletcher-Baker (WSH)
LB- Michael Boley (NYG
CB- Sheldon Brown (PHI)
FS- LaRon Landry (WSH)
SS- Quintin Mikell (PHI)
CB- Corey Webster (NYG)

7 Notable Reserves: QB Donavon McNabb (PHI), RB Brandon Jacobs (NYG), RB Clinton Portis (WAS), CB Terrance Newman (DAL), CB Asante Samuel (PHI), DE Trent Cole (PHI), PR/KR DeSean Jackson (PHI)

NFC North

QB Jay Cutler (CHI)
RB Adrian Peterson (MIN)
FB Naufahu Tahi (MIN)
WR Calvin Johnson (DET)
WR Greg Jennings (GB)
TE Greg Olsen (CHI)
LT Bryant McKinney (MIN)
LG Steve Hutchinson (MIN)
C Olin Kreutz (CHI)
G Anthony Herrera (MIN)
RT Kevin Shaffer (CHI)

DE Jared Allen (MIN)
DT Pat Williams (MIN)
DT Kevin Williams (MIN)
DE Aaron Kampman (GB)
OLB Lance Briggs (CHI)
MLB Brian Urlacher (CHI)
OLB Chad Greenway (MIN)
CB Charles Woodson (GB)
CB Antoine Winfield (MIN)
FS Nick Collins (GB)
SS Kevin Payne (CHI)

7 Notable Reserves: QB Aaron Rodgers (GB), RB Matt Forte (CHI), KR/PR Devin Hester (CHI), CB Charles Tillman (CHI), WR Bernard Berrian (MIN), WR Donald Driver (GB), LB A.J. Hawk (GB)

Just me but:

QB: North
RB: North
TE: East
OL:North
DL: Push
LB: North
CB: North
S: East

Not a fan of Cutler, but Eli's going to have 0 run game to help him.

Kampman/Allen are 2 of the best Complete DE's in the league and No one runs on Pat/Kevin Williams.

I don't think Roy Williams is special, hasn't really shown it in Detroit or Dallas... Moss could cause problems but I'd put Woodson on him.

Safeties are extremely weak for the North but, yeah, I have to go with the North on this one.

That said...

Looking at the Sack #'s from last year..

LT: Diehl ~ 6.5....... McKinnie 4.0
LG: Snee ~ 1 ..... Hutchinson 7.0
C: O'Hara ~ 2... Kreutz 0
RG: Davis ~ 4.5 ... Herrerra 7.5 (Garza should be the starting RG or Beekman... 2.5 and 1.25 sacks respectfully)
RT: Peters ~ 11.5 Sacks ...Shaffer 4.5

Thats 26 Sacks to 23 (16.75 if you replace Herrera with Beekman).

Crickett · 05-16-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller

Not a fan of Cutler, but Eli's going to have 0 run game to help him.

Well, here's why.

2008 Washington Redskins 16 16 342 1,487 4.3 31 9 28 218 7.8 29 0 3 3

2008 Philadelphia Eagles 14 14 233 936 4.0 39T 9 54 402 7.4 47 5 2 1

jkpigskin · 05-16-2009, 05:45 PM

the defenses are pretty close but i think the north's O is miles ahead than the east
went with north

BmoreBlackByrdz · 05-16-2009, 05:45 PM

Eli over Donovan? Westbrook over Portis? yuck, I vote North, but this is hella close. I just can't see Eli leading that team to victory against a defense like the North and NO run game.

Eaglez.Fan · 05-16-2009, 05:46 PM

Andrews > Peters for RT, btw.

BeerBaron · 05-16-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller

Just me but:

QB: North
RB: North
TE: East
OL:North
DL: Push
LB: North
CB: North
S: East

And don't bet on that for long. I'm not trying to take away from Witten here, I think he might honestly have a claim as the best all around TE in the game, but Olsen is twice the athlete and I expect a huge year from him coming up here.

Just thought i'd point that out....

eaglesalltheway · 05-16-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

And don't bet on that for long. I'm not trying to take away from Witten here, I think he might honestly have a claim as the best all around TE in the game, but Olsen is twice the athlete and I expect a huge year from him coming up here.

Just thought i'd point that out....

I liek Olsen a lot, and I am also in the corner that believes Witten is the #1 TE. But Olsen hasn't showed the all-around game Witten has just yet. Olsen has made very little, if any, impact as a blocker. Witten is one of the better blocking TEs in the game, and he is also in the top 2 or 3 as a receiver as well. I don't think Olsen will be there just yet, but he certainly has the potential to be right up there in two or three years.

BeerBaron · 05-16-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway

I liek Olsen a lot, and I am also in the corner that believes Witten is the #1 TE. But Olsen hasn't showed the all-around game Witten has just yet. Olsen has made very little, if any, impact as a blocker. Witten is one of the better blocking TEs in the game, and he is also in the top 2 or 3 as a receiver as well. I don't think Olsen will be there just yet, but he certainly has the potential to be right up there in two or three years.

Well thats why I only said twice the athlete and that Witten has that won for now. I really do expect huge things from Olsen this year and so does our coaching staff. Next year at this time I really do expect him to be mentioned amongst the top 3-5 TE's in the game. He's certainly got a crazy high ceiling and he's been working on improving as a blocker as well i just read a few days ago.

eaglesalltheway · 05-16-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Well thats why I only said twice the athlete and that Witten has that won for now. I really do expect huge things from Olsen this year and so does our coaching staff. Next year at this time I really do expect him to be mentioned amongst the top 3-5 TE's in the game. He's certainly got a crazy high ceiling and he's been working on improving as a blocker as well i just read a few days ago.

He's got a bit to go as a blocker, but if he wants to be recognized in that 3-5 range, he will need to continue his progression as a receiver, as well as improve greatly as a blocker. He does have the capability to do it, I agree there.

wicket · 05-16-2009, 06:28 PM

East for me. (but its close)
I like the OLine of the East quite a bit more than the north.
I have to say that these are about two of the scariest DLines imaginable.
Dont like the easts LB's
Dont like the norths DB's
I think people overrate cutler a bit.
QB: north slight edge
RB: north very slight edge
WR: north
TE: east, pretty big edge
OL: east
DL: wash
LB: north
DB: east by a massive margin (on account of safeties mainly)

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 05-16-2009, 06:41 PM

Whats with the Easts corners in this.

Sheldon Brown and Corey Webster really? Try Carlos Rogers,Asante Samuel,Terrence Newman or even Aaron Ross all better than Webster and probably Sheldon too. Samuels is better than Brown.

And Moss is the second best WR? I guess since DeSean has to prove it for more than one year. QB is a tough call between Eli and Donovan and RB is tough between Portis and Westbrook.

And why don't you use SAM and Will. Greenway is a will I thought, wouldn't the best prototype SAM be Julian Peterson. But I guess Dallas runs a 3-4 so you could just used OLB so therefore Greenway would get it.

And RT for the North, if we are switching LTs like with Peters over I'd put Pace. Gosder Cherilus has more to prove but he's an up and coming Right Tackle in the North and he had a solid year last year getting better as the year went on. I'd take Gosder over Schaffer but not Pace if we are switching. Schaffer must be a throw in.

diabsoule · 05-16-2009, 06:48 PM

The East's pass rush is insane. If they get at Cutler a couple of times it would definitely rattle him.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-16-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Whats with the Easts corners in this.

Sheldon Brown and Corey Webster really? Try Carlos Rogers,Asante Samuel,Terrence Newman or even Aaron Ross all better than Webster and probably Sheldon too. Samuels is better than Brown.

And Moss is the second best WR? I guess since DeSean has to prove it for more than one year. QB is a tough call between Eli and Donovan and RB is tough between Portis and Westbrook.

And why don't you use SAM and Will. Greenway is a will I thought, wouldn't the best prototype SAM be Julian Peterson. But I guess Dallas runs a 3-4 so you could just used OLB so therefore Greenway would get it.

And RT for the North, if we are switching LTs like with Peters over I'd put Pace. Gosder Cherilus has more to prove but he's an up and coming Right Tackle in the North and he had a solid year last year getting better as the year went on. I'd take Gosder over Schaffer but not Pace if we are switching. Schaffer must be a throw in.

Seriously Sheldon Brown and Corey Webster were better than all of them

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 05-16-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

Seriously Sheldon Brown and Corey Webster were better than all of them

Well when you cover the number 2 receivers you'll look better. Samuels,Rogers and Newman and Ross all cover number 1 receivers. Plus Samuels and Newman have had better careers than Brown and Webster. Ross and Rogers have had better careers than Webster too. Webster had a good 2008 but his career was has been shaky.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-16-2009, 06:57 PM

why do people insist on #1 CB will always stick to the #1 WR? i do not understand.

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 05-16-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

why do people insist on #1 CB will always stick to the #1 WR? i do not understand.

Why do people not understand people move the number 1 WR around to avoid the number 1 cornerbacks for a reason. Webster and Brown are not number 1 corners. How can they be the best in the division. That is what I was saying, not that they 100% of the time covered number 2 WRs. The majority of the time, yes I would say they covered number 2 WRs though. Corners are messed up IMO but oh well its just a poll. If the East fans agree I'll roll with it.

And I think the East would win if they used McNabb instead of Eli and Andy Reids offense. Also at FB, I used Cooley as an H-back. East have a bunch of hybrid offensive and defensive players that can do some damage.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-16-2009, 07:19 PM

Both have not allowed a single touchdown. there were only about 70 passes thrown in the direction of brown. Asante Samuel got burned by guys like Devin Hester.

GB12 · 05-16-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Whats with the Easts corners in this.

Sheldon Brown and Corey Webster really? Try Carlos Rogers,Asante Samuel,Terrence Newman or even Aaron Ross all better than Webster and probably Sheldon too. Samuels is better than Brown.

The only one of those that could be ahead of Brown and Webster is Newman. Webster is better than Aaron Ross. If you won't take my word for it, just ask any Giants fan. And Carlos Rogers? GTFO.

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 05-16-2009, 07:52 PM

Over their entire careers no tds or just last year no tds. I've seen Webster get burnt plenty before 2008. And Webster did give up 1 td in 2008 but again it depends on the wide outs they are covering(for the majority of time Samuel/Newman/Ross took on the number 1s) and the coverages that are called to determine who's "fault" it was. Unless you know the coverage called, its very difficult to determine who's fault it was someitmes. Most times teams allow the underneath routes and try to stop progression and YAC. Samuel only gave up 3tds and Rogers gave up 4 tds, Webster 1, Brown 0. Newman was hurt some of the year. However, how many times in the redzone did Webster/Brown cover the number 1. How many times are they in zone coverage and don't get help but still get the fault? How many times do they get no pass rush and still get the fault.

I've seen Webster burnt a ton in his career. He may have had a good year in 2008 but I'm not taking him over Samuel or Newman(if healthy) or Rogers.

As for Sheldon Brown, I'm not saying Brown isn't a good corner and one bad game for Samuels(covering Chicagos fastest receiver) doesn't neglect a whole very strong career with game changing ints which are important too. The turnover battle would be big in an all star game like this. Brown I'd accept more than Webster no matter how good Webster played last year.

someone447 · 05-16-2009, 08:00 PM

This one is incredibly close, but I gave it to the North by a hair. I thik their offense wins it for them. If the Oline can give Cutler ANY amount of time the East's corners can't cover the Norths WRs.