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Old 05-25-2009, 05:21 AM    (permalink
OzTitan
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Says the poster who just used Australian-isms derogatorily because of the poster's location?
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
Says the poster who just used Australian-isms derogatorily because of the poster's location?
Look on the bright side Oz! He could've told him to go have a Foster's (It's Australian for BEER!!!). :D
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:41 AM    (permalink
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You're assuming they get pinched by Goodell for tampering, CC.

Compensatory picks have nothing to do with tampering. They are given out based on net loss/gain of players via free agency
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:59 AM    (permalink
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You're assuming they get pinched by Goodell for tampering, CC.

There's nothing that leads me to believe this will be the final outcome, however, I 'm sure the burden of proof for the NFL is much less than it would be in a criminal court proceeding.




If you had read the entire thread, mate, you would see it does have a tangential relevance to the convo. The signing of Haynesworth makes the transition to SAM that much easier for Orakpo.

No need to crack back if you don't know what you're talking about.

G'day.

Why are there so many snarky guys on SWDC?
Yall need to chill OUT!!!
I did read the whole thread...and your comment about Merriman still has nothing to do with anything mentioned. Yes Merriman was an end in college, he also went to a team that primarily asks him to rush the passer, and when they did ask him to drop into coverage his impact was not nearly as great. So what you were saying is because Merriman did this, keeping in mind he is probably one of the biggest physical freaks in the NFL, you want Orakpo to play SAM in a 4-3 where it is obvious that he will have to fall into coverage atleast occasionally? (and yes i am aware he will be rushing the passer a lot, but still, i think most would agree he is taylor made to be an end). But yes, who am i to speak, i'm from Australia, a place not dissimilar to Rand McNally, where they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people.

And if you don't like it here...well, you know.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:23 AM    (permalink
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I did read the whole thread...and your comment about Merriman still has nothing to do with anything mentioned. Yes Merriman was an end in college, he also went to a team that primarily asks him to rush the passer, and when they did ask him to drop into coverage his impact was not nearly as great. So what you were saying is because Merriman did this, keeping in mind he is probably one of the biggest physical freaks in the NFL, you want Orakpo to play SAM in a 4-3 where it is obvious that he will have to fall into coverage atleast occasionally? (and yes i am aware he will be rushing the passer a lot, but still, i think most would agree he is taylor made to be an end). But yes, who am i to speak, i'm from Australia, a place not dissimilar to Rand McNally, where they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people.

And if you don't like it here...well, you know.
it's relevant position wise, like if you were to go into the colts forum and discussed brady. Because, you know, they play QB so it's über relevant.

Also I think it's funny to see Parrish_lemar make underhanded, below the belt-type remarks in every thread, but when someone makes a sarcastic comment or critisizes one of his posts he starts complaining like a little girl.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:28 AM    (permalink
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it's relevant position wise, like if you were to go into the colts forum and discussed brady. Because, you know, they play QB so it's über relevant.

Also I think it's funny to see Parrish_lemar make underhanded, below the belt-type remarks in every thread, but when someone makes a sarcastic comment or critisizes one of his posts he starts complaining like a little girl.
We all just need to stop being so snarky, cause you know, parrish_lemar said so.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:20 AM    (permalink
parrish_lemar24DBSkins
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That could not possibly have less to do with a single post in this thread. Like, at all.

The plastic things on the end of shoelaces are called aglets.

See that fact? It actually had more to do with this thread than your post. Congrats.
"If you had read the entire thread, mate, you would see it does have a tangential relevance to the convo." pl24DBSkins

Definition of the word tangential; incidental, indirectly related.

Obviously this thread isn't about whether Orakpo should be an OLB or DE, my point was that the presence of Haynesworth makes Rak's transition to a standup edge rusher on certain downs easier.
And if Merriman and Demarcus Ware could make the transition, I don't see why Orakpo couldn't or shouldn't be allowed to try, since it would fill a huge need for the Skins.

To say that my post had nothing to do with a conversation about whether the Skins illegally contacted Big Al, I think, is wrong. That's all.

7-11 acted like it was a total non sequitor, but if you work a little it's not hard to connect the dots, was my only point about Orakpo and Merriman.

Back to the topic at hand.

Stranger, (and whoever else made the same point earlier), I thought you meant the SKins would have to GIVE UP a compensatory pick to the Titans for signing Haynesworth, even if it's found there was no tampering.

You're absolutely right, based on how the league calculates these things, the Titans will probably be awarded an additional comp pick by the NFL, but not directly from the Skins.

My mistake.

Was calling 7-11 'mate' or ending with g'day a little bitchy? Maybe.
( No serious offense intended, btw)

About the same as 7-11 saying a discussion about the plastic tips at the end of shoelaces is more related to the thread topic than my mentioning that the presence of Big Al makes the transition to OLB easier for Rak, one he should have a good shot at making because other similar hybrid college DEs have successfully made the switch.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:48 AM    (permalink
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Also I think it's funny to see Parrish_lemar make underhanded, below the belt-type remarks in every thread, but when someone makes a sarcastic comment or critisizes one of his posts he starts complaining like a little girl.

Have I complained to you once about anything, Addict?

I've never come at anyone first with attitude or hostility in any post on this forum.
Check the post order, Addict. It was 7-11 who got this thing started, not me.

DO unto others and all that, yeah, I know it may sound corny to you Addict, but I kinda believe in that type of stuff.

I welcome criticism, especially when I'm wrong, or someone has a different take on something that makes more sense. That process is called 'learning'.

Leading leads to 'knowledge'.
Knowledge leads to 'enlightment'.

The reason I'm here is to raise my overall football IQ, ( because someone always has a take on something that you've never thought of before), and talk 24/7 about my favorite sport, no more, no less.

But don't expect to rip on someone mercilessly and not have them respond in kind.

Enough hijacking this thread with personal stuff....

Haynesworth and Snyder will be exonerated by Goodell.

Orakpo will tally at least 8 sacks next season.

The SKins will challenge the Giants for the best defense in the NFC East.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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Donk posts. I'm sure we tampered and whatever penalty we get probably won't be stiff enough to make Snyder care. As a skins fan, I just look at it as losing a 4th round pick or so and Snyder not being able to trade it for TJ Duckett with some accelerator clause. Jesus Christ.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Donk posts.
Whatever. You guys can play with this thread a while longer.

It's pointless.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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someone have a tissue for this guy? i think he might actually cry
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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Enough with the teasing and condescending remarks guys. No need for drama, unless it's for why we American football.

Anyway, I just saw on ESPN that Haynesworth will be interviewed by NFL officials this coming week.

Also glad we got the comp pick thing understood. Some were on two complete different pages on that, but it made for some great reading at 4 AM! :D
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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What is the exact rules on tampering? I thought owners were allowed to talk to agents but they weren't allowed to contact the player directly. I didn't think there were any rules about talking to other players agent because there's a very good chance that agent services another player on said team. If Danny was talking to Malcolm Kelly's agent and the topic of Haynesworth came up there is absolutely no way to prove it, is there?

IMO this is going to be an uphill battle for the Titans but I wouldn't doubt the league takes a pick just because the perception of tampering is there. Goodell will probably try to make an example out of the situation and screw the Skins out of a pick but what can you do...?
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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What is the exact rules on tampering? I thought owners were allowed to talk to agents but they weren't allowed to contact the player directly. I didn't think there were any rules about talking to other players agent because there's a very good chance that agent services another player on said team. If Danny was talking to Malcolm Kelly's agent and the topic of Haynesworth came up there is absolutely no way to prove it, is there?

IMO this is going to be an uphill battle for the Titans but I wouldn't doubt the league takes a pick just because the perception of tampering is there. Goodell will probably try to make an example out of the situation and screw the Skins out of a pick but what can you do...?
Honestly, Speck could've called the 'Skins up and said, "Hey, Albert wants to play for ya'll," and it wouldn't be tampering. The tampering would begin when Wash. calls back asking, "Really? We'd love to have him in D.C.!" The agent can reach out, just not the organization.

I got this off a Titan board that OzTitan and I frequent, and he delved into this earlier in the thread:

This is the tampering policy:

TAMPERING AND FREE AGENCY
Definition
The term tampering, as used within the National Football League, refers to any interference by a member club with the employer-employee relationship of another club or any attempt by a club to impermissibly induce a person to seek employment with that club or with the NFL.

Purpose
The purpose of the NFL Anti-Tampering Policy, as it applies to tampering with players, is to protect member clubs’ contract and negotiating rights, and, at the same time, to allow the intra-League competitive systems devised for the acquisition and retention of player talent (e.g., college draft, waiver system, free-agent rules under an operative collective bargaining agreement) to operate efficiently. As the Policy applies to tampering with non-players, its purpose is to strike a balance between protecting the rights and maintaining the organizational stability of employer clubs, and providing realistic advancement opportunities for employees if other clubs desire their services.

NFL Anti-Tampering Policy 4
Anti-Tampering Policy applies during that period of the year (before the start of the free-agency period in mid-February) and that tampering violations may be based upon contacts with players at or in connection with the Pro Bowl, including when:
1. Club executives in attendance engage in private conversations or meetings with a player or players under contract to another club; or
2. Club executives directly or indirectly instruct or encourage conversations or meetings involving their own players and players under contract to other organizations that can reasonably be interpreted as designed to express the club’s interest in acquiring the services of such other player(s).

Non-Players
No club, nor any person employed by or otherwise affiliated with a club, is permitted to tamper with a non-player employee of another club. Unless otherwise provided for in this Policy, no club may request permission to discuss employment with a non-player, non-coach employee of another club, whether or not that employee is under contract, during the employer club’s playing season, defined as the period from the opening of preseason training camp through the club’s final game of the season, including postseason if applicable. (See the language under “Head Coaches” and “Assistant Coaches” below that prohibits all in-season discussions or dealings concerning coaches.) Except for Head Coaches and High-Level Club Employees (club presidents, general managers, and persons with equivalent responsibility and authority), clubs are not permitted to exchange draft choices or cash for the release of individuals who are under contract to another organization. If a club employs an individual who has been terminated by another organization, which is entitled to an offset for compensation owed to its former employee, the terms of the employee’s new contract must provide that the employee is paid an annual salary in each year of the contract which is reasonable for that employee in light of his experience, the services he will be performing, and the League’s average salary for employees in similar positions. In addition to providing an overall compensation which is reasonable, the new club must also ensure that any increases which are granted to the employee in contract years subsequent to the fermination of the prior club’s obligations are also reasonable. In the event o a dispute, final determination will be made by the Commissioner.

– NFL


As to what Oz was gettin' at:

7. TORTUOUS INTERFERENCE WITH CONTRACT

In order to establish a claim for Tortuous Interference with Contract, six elements must usually be established:

A valid existing contract;
That defendant had knowledge of;
That defendant intended to induce breach of;
That the contract was in fact breached or performance was rendered more difficult;
Causation; and
Actual damage.


Essentially, what Tortuous Interference in the NFL would be is affecting the signability of a player. The Titans held the right to re-sign their talent without interference, and if Washington was telling Speck that they'll pay big money, they violated the Titans rights.

As for proving it, we don't know. We don't know if this is an image thing which Goodell wants to make an example out of. We don't know if this is just the NFL going through the motions. That will greatly influence the outcome. In my opinion, if Goodell is wanting to use this to make a statement to the NFL, the Redskins are screwed and precedents could be set - Anything from fines, to the Skins having to forfeit portions of Haynesworth jersey sales, to giving Draft picks to the Titans, to facing regulatory sanctions in future FA periods, to who knows. If it's just going through the motions, then I'm not holding my breath as a Titans fan.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Why are there so many snarky guys on SWDC?
Yall need to chill OUT!!!
I'll be the first to admit that every thread you go in, people seem to go right against the grain on you. Although i don't agree with what you say some of the time (Asomogha discussion in particular), people seem to take a negative response type to continue the discussion. I agree that many people on here are very snarky and seem to like to team up (strength in numbers?). It is kind of sad actually, knowing that if people just posted like cival people rather than trying to pick on someone, that there could actually be a good discussion going on, rather than it coming off as a bunch of people whining and pointing fingers.

Getting lost in this discussion through all this, is that nothing has actually been determined yet and that people are accusing others of jumping to conclusions. The NFL wouldn't look into this and make it public if they didn't see something that caught their eye. Goodell wanting to take a strong stance on the NFL tampering situation certainly factors in as well.

We do not know all the details. We are not in a position that allows us to know all the details. There is very little, if any, chance that anything will be in paper that can be held against the Redskins, so it will have to be verbal evidence that shows them guilty. Given the people involved, and their current relationship to the Washington Redskins (players, agents, management), they all have something to lose if they get caught speaking out (if they haven't already). However, people do get caught in these situations, so it will be interesting what comes of it.

I don't know how they determine the pick compensation if found guilty, so i certainly won't comment on that.

Orakpo will be rushing the passer, that is obvious. If the OLB position is an area of need, why can't they have him stand up occasionally and rush the passer? Assuming he shows he can do it, they can certainly mix that in. For all we know, he can excel at that position (in the 4-3 it is highly unlikely, that is not a conversion done often). It certainly seems a long shot, but he can mix in there. Having him drop into coverage occasionally is something that will happen, but saying it will happen doesn't mean it will be frequent, so don't jump all over it.

The Titans doing this doesn't mean they are whining or anything liek that, and people on here saying they should just leave it alone are being ignorant. If they think something went on, with a guy with as much hype and attention as Big Albert, signing a HUGE contract for Dan Synder of all people, you have to realize this is a business and that the Titans would be stupid if they didn't try to obtain something from the situation. They lost their best defender and got nothing, so if you can get something, why not? They'd be stupid to just say 'Ah well, what's done is done, lets let this one slide'. They may or they may not, but it doesn't cost them anything.

They weren't going to re-sign him, but that isn't the point. The point is they can get something for nothing, and regardless of what the situation is, you try to get that something......
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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You're assuming they get pinched by Goodell for tampering, CC.

There's nothing that leads me to believe this will be the final outcome, however, I 'm sure the burden of proof for the NFL is much less than it would be in a criminal court proceeding.




If you had read the entire thread, mate, you would see it does have a tangential relevance to the convo. The signing of Haynesworth makes the transition to SAM that much easier for Orakpo.

No need to crack back if you don't know what you're talking about.

G'day.

Why are there so many snarky guys on SWDC?
Yall need to chill OUT!!!
YAY someone still doesn't know what a compensatory pick is!!

There were no tampering charges against the bears, yet they got a comp pick for Bernard Berrian. Interesting.
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Old 05-25-2009, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Nothing needs to get proven for the Titans to pick up a high comp pick. They're awarded based on a super secret formula which factors in UFAs let go, UFAs brought in, and the salaries of both.
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Since he is no longer a Titan
I said it when he was a Titan. He is a special pass rusher and is def. one of the top DT in the leauge. But he is not this brute agianst the run that the media hypes him up to be. He chases no one but the QB and he is not this consistant game changer week in and out. He wil see about 55% of the snaps a game and is a lock to miss between 2-4 games a season. Great player and I wish he were still a Titan but he isnt the sole awnser for the redskins and if you think he is going to be as good there as he was here his history and the titans history says otherwise.
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Nothing needs to get proven for the Titans to pick up a high comp pick. They're awarded based on a super secret formula which factors in UFAs let go, UFAs brought in, and the salaries of both.
This, and Jeff Fisher gave Goodell a super awesome mustache ride.

Fish...always takin' one for the team!
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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This, and Jeff Fisher gave Goodell a super awesome mustache ride.

Fish...always takin' one for the team!
Goodell wore his frowny face the whole time to maintain the facade of impartiality.


mmm bbq time.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Truth be told, Big Albert strikes me as one of those guys that once he gets his big paycheck is going to slump down to the 'average' category.....
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Good info. This is going to really tough for the league to prove considering there is just a bunch of hearsay. Its going to be interesting to see what they come up with regardless of the end result, IMO..

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Honestly, Speck could've called the 'Skins up and said, "Hey, Albert wants to play for ya'll," and it wouldn't be tampering. The tampering would begin when Wash. calls back asking, "Really? We'd love to have him in D.C.!" The agent can reach out, just not the organization.

I got this off a Titan board that OzTitan and I frequent, and he delved into this earlier in the thread:

This is the tampering policy:

TAMPERING AND FREE AGENCY
Definition
The term tampering, as used within the National Football League, refers to any interference by a member club with the employer-employee relationship of another club or any attempt by a club to impermissibly induce a person to seek employment with that club or with the NFL.

Purpose
The purpose of the NFL Anti-Tampering Policy, as it applies to tampering with players, is to protect member clubs’ contract and negotiating rights, and, at the same time, to allow the intra-League competitive systems devised for the acquisition and retention of player talent (e.g., college draft, waiver system, free-agent rules under an operative collective bargaining agreement) to operate efficiently. As the Policy applies to tampering with non-players, its purpose is to strike a balance between protecting the rights and maintaining the organizational stability of employer clubs, and providing realistic advancement opportunities for employees if other clubs desire their services.

NFL Anti-Tampering Policy 4
Anti-Tampering Policy applies during that period of the year (before the start of the free-agency period in mid-February) and that tampering violations may be based upon contacts with players at or in connection with the Pro Bowl, including when:
1. Club executives in attendance engage in private conversations or meetings with a player or players under contract to another club; or
2. Club executives directly or indirectly instruct or encourage conversations or meetings involving their own players and players under contract to other organizations that can reasonably be interpreted as designed to express the club’s interest in acquiring the services of such other player(s).

Non-Players
No club, nor any person employed by or otherwise affiliated with a club, is permitted to tamper with a non-player employee of another club. Unless otherwise provided for in this Policy, no club may request permission to discuss employment with a non-player, non-coach employee of another club, whether or not that employee is under contract, during the employer club’s playing season, defined as the period from the opening of preseason training camp through the club’s final game of the season, including postseason if applicable. (See the language under “Head Coaches” and “Assistant Coaches” below that prohibits all in-season discussions or dealings concerning coaches.) Except for Head Coaches and High-Level Club Employees (club presidents, general managers, and persons with equivalent responsibility and authority), clubs are not permitted to exchange draft choices or cash for the release of individuals who are under contract to another organization. If a club employs an individual who has been terminated by another organization, which is entitled to an offset for compensation owed to its former employee, the terms of the employee’s new contract must provide that the employee is paid an annual salary in each year of the contract which is reasonable for that employee in light of his experience, the services he will be performing, and the League’s average salary for employees in similar positions. In addition to providing an overall compensation which is reasonable, the new club must also ensure that any increases which are granted to the employee in contract years subsequent to the fermination of the prior club’s obligations are also reasonable. In the event o a dispute, final determination will be made by the Commissioner.

– NFL


As to what Oz was gettin' at:

7. TORTUOUS INTERFERENCE WITH CONTRACT

In order to establish a claim for Tortuous Interference with Contract, six elements must usually be established:

A valid existing contract;
That defendant had knowledge of;
That defendant intended to induce breach of;
That the contract was in fact breached or performance was rendered more difficult;
Causation; and
Actual damage.


Essentially, what Tortuous Interference in the NFL would be is affecting the signability of a player. The Titans held the right to re-sign their talent without interference, and if Washington was telling Speck that they'll pay big money, they violated the Titans rights.

As for proving it, we don't know. We don't know if this is an image thing which Goodell wants to make an example out of. We don't know if this is just the NFL going through the motions. That will greatly influence the outcome. In my opinion, if Goodell is wanting to use this to make a statement to the NFL, the Redskins are screwed and precedents could be set - Anything from fines, to the Skins having to forfeit portions of Haynesworth jersey sales, to giving Draft picks to the Titans, to facing regulatory sanctions in future FA periods, to who knows. If it's just going through the motions, then I'm not holding my breath as a Titans fan.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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The Skins tend toward FAs instead of draft picks, that's why they usually have <7 on draft day. The ones they do have are pissed away on bad choices anyway.

They might lose a 5th rounder, bfd. I think that's what the 9ers were penalized for tampering with Briggs. Hell yes the whole league tampers
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Says the poster who just used Australian-isms derogatorily because of the poster's location?
More wombat-bashing, shameful.....

Ethnic slur Memorial Day jk --> Those Native American Redskins didn't know just how the Aussies were offended by naming a team after their beloved wombats..... Kind of like using the name "abo" in front of black Aussies, or "redskins" on a Native American reservation. :-)

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Old 05-25-2009, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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I said it when he was a Titan. He is a special pass rusher and is def. one of the top DT in the leauge. But he is not this brute agianst the run that the media hypes him up to be. He chases no one but the QB and he is not this consistant game changer week in and out. He wil see about 55% of the snaps a game and is a lock to miss between 2-4 games a season. Great player and I wish he were still a Titan but he isnt the sole awnser for the redskins and if you think he is going to be as good there as he was here his history and the titans history says otherwise.
Crap well I guess no one should ever be picked from the Titans because Jeff Fisher and company know all. Dude please. To say that Haynesworth will be less of a player in DC because of the history of players leaving Tennessee is pulling arguments out of your ass and hoping they stick. I have articles from your own players stating the Albert not only brings his game with him but also makes others around him much better. Thats adding to the #4 ranked defense last year.

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Truth be told, Big Albert strikes me as one of those guys that once he gets his big paycheck is going to slump down to the 'average' category.....
If you read some of his interviews you wouldnt think so.

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The Skins tend toward FAs instead of draft picks, that's why they usually have <7 on draft day. The ones they do have are pissed away on bad choices anyway.

They might lose a 5th rounder, bfd. I think that's what the 9ers were penalized for tampering with Briggs. Hell yes the whole league tampers
Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley, LaRon Landry, Chris Horton, Rocky McIntosh, Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen, Anthony Montgomery, Carlos Rogers.....thanks for the unintelligent comment
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