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Old 10-17-2009, 05:51 PM    (permalink
JT Jag
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Bradford could have overcome the questions about him before the season--- his team's non-standard offense, his allegedly less-than-ideal arm strength...

But with this series of injuries and re-injuries, his stock has taken a big hit. We don't have any answers, just more questions.

It would be the smart thing for Bradford to come back next year and try to silence the critics.
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Old 10-17-2009, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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So now he has one more question mark to add to the pile, and on top of that, he doesn't even have massive upside that is worth trying to develop over all the risks.

Sounds like a real winner.

At least when you take a raw prospect like Vince Young or Mike Vick, the potential dividends are massive.

This is a guy taht needs to develop and overcome a lot of things to be... a solid starter at best? No thanks.
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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It was the same shoulder that he badly hurt in the first game of the season. I strongly believe that he came back to soon and his shoulder wasn't healed enough to take any kind of punishment.
But now he's hurt it twice and may never fully recover, we don't know yet. Plus, this would affect his arm strength, so already average to begin with, may drop down to a weak arm.
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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Bradford needs to sit out the rest of the year IMO. Hurting your throwing shoulder is a serious injury and he needs to full recover.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:20 AM    (permalink
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As someone who has had a history of shoulder injuries, I would have to say that I would be somewhat amused if Bradford suffered structural damage in his shoulder due to how quickly he rushed back. The kid had no business playing as soon as he did given the kind of injury he suffered. His shoulder should have been immobilized longer than he actually sat out.

Somebody in the group of: Coach Stoops, Sam Bradford, and the OU athletic training staff is an idiot, from best I can tell.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:35 AM    (permalink
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As someone who has had a history of shoulder injuries, I would have to say that I would be somewhat amused if Bradford suffered structural damage in his shoulder due to how quickly he rushed back. The kid had no business playing as soon as he did given the kind of injury he suffered. His shoulder should have been immobilized longer than he actually sat out.

Somebody in the group of: Coach Stoops, Sam Bradford, and the OU athletic training staff is an idiot, from best I can tell.
No one is an idiot, to be honest. Stoops is a selfish asshole who will sacrifice the future of his players for short term success. That's well known amongst recruits and coaching staffs all over. The athletic department does what Stoops wants, an Bradford is simply just another victim of Stoops' huge ego.

You're right, there was no way in hell that Bradford should have been rushed back that soon, but i'm sure Stoops did his best to convince him he was healthy enough to play again. Bradford needs to visit his own doctors from now on and get the hell out of Norman after this year. He will still be a top twenty overall pick, cut your losses and turn pro, where you won't be lied to about your injuries.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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Bradford should just go the Jason White route and try to get 6 years of eligibility because he's not a pro QB and never has been. All you people crying about how Stoops is ruining his pro prospects fail to realize that he's not a pro talent.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Bradford should just go the Jason White route and try to get 6 years of eligibility because he's not a pro QB and never has been. All you people crying about how Stoops is ruining his pro prospects fail to realize that he's not a pro talent.
Bradford = Jason White????

Pure comedy!!

No coach should ever play his starting QB too soon when he's recovering from a major shoulder injury.

If Bradford goes to a team that puts him behind an Oline that gives him a liitle time to throw, Bradford has (gasp!!) Brady-like upside.

Yeah, I said it...
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Old 10-18-2009, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Bradford = Jason White????

Pure comedy!!

No coach should ever play his starting QB too soon when he's recovering from a major shoulder injury.

If Bradford goes to a team that puts him behind an Oline that gives him a liitle time to throw, Bradford has (gasp!!) Brady-like upside.

Yeah, I said it...
I completely agree that he shouldn't have been rushed back on the field so soon, however his NFL prospects are very limited (4th rounder at best imo) so it's really not a defining moment in his career.

Brady can actually throw farther than 20 yards, make reads and make good decisions with the ball when under duress. Those are all things that Bradford rarely does.

His ceiling is Chad Pennington.

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You're just f**king stupid, and I don't care if this gets me banned. You are the biggest idiot I have ran across this board. Sam Bradford is a QB in the NFL. He may not be a starting QB, but he will make an NFL roster for several years. It is foolish you think he is Jason White. Jason White played on dummy knees for 3 years. Everyone knows he isn't an NFL QB.
Bradford will never be a starting QB in the NFL....hence he's not a NFL talent. He'll be a backup somewhere for a few years and maybe bounce around different teams like Joey Harrington or Byron Leftwich, but he doesn't have an NFL arm, has overrated accuracy and is poorly prepared for the pros making quick, simple reads in a spread offense with a great offensive line and weapons to throw to/hand off to.

There's not much that separates him from Colt Brennan, who was once considered a top-20 pick in Scott's very own mock draft and bum knees are what separate him from Jason White.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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Bradford should just go the Jason White route and try to get 6 years of eligibility because he's not a pro QB and never has been. All you people crying about how Stoops is ruining his pro prospects fail to realize that he's not a pro talent.
I don't see Bradford being Jason White-esque, but man -- he so should have declared last year where he probably would have been taken in the top 15. I could have easily seen him being a Redskin.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:47 AM    (permalink
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Etk, how often is Brady ever under duress?? When he has to face consistent pressure, he looks average. Brady's game is based on superior protection; pressure up the middle or off the edge takes away from his game because of his poor mobility.
You're the next who believes Bradford's arm is similar to noodle wing Pennington. Did you think Bradford only threw the ball 20 yards downfield when Malcolm Kelly and Iglesias were Bradford's primary downfield targets??

Bradford has a pro arm, just as Tebow does. They both played in systems that were predicated mainly on receivers getting YAC, but these offensive systems were already in place when they both arrived on campus.

The only question I have about Bradford is his mental toughness. If he proves, which no one can know at this point, he can still thrive after being sacked 70 times in a year, he's going to be a stud.

Opinions are cool and speculation about prospects is what SWDC is all about, but the absolute certainty and broad brush some of you state your opinions without any exceptions or caveats is mind-boggling.

If Bradford can get his arm healthy, he's worth a pick no later than 15 or 20th in the first round.

I would not be surprised to see a team like the Vikes, Redskins, Panthers, Buffalo, the Rams, SF and even Denver make serious plays to get into a position to draft Bradford, if he tests healthy.

I have no idea where the Pennington or Harrington comparisons come from.

It's very easy to compare prospects you don't like to huge busts like Harrington, but at the same point in his college career, no one could tell Harrington didn't have the mental game to excel in the pros. Same deal with Carr to a lesser degree.

I'd roll the dice on Bradford, he's got too many outstanding attributes and minor question marks to his game, and see if he's got game.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Etk, how often is Brady ever under duress?? When he has to face consistent pressure, he looks average. Brady's game is based on superior protection; pressure up the middle or off the edge takes away from his game because of his poor mobility.
You're the next who believes Bradford's arm is similar to noodle wing Pennington. Did you think Bradford only threw the ball 20 yards downfield when Malcolm Kelly and Iglesias were Bradford's primary downfield targets??

Bradford has a pro arm, just as Tebow does. They both played in systems that were predicated mainly on receivers getting YAC, but these offensive systems were already in place when they both arrived on campus.

The only question I have about Bradford is his mental toughness. If he proves, which no one can know at this point, he can still thrive after being sacked 70 times in a year, he's going to be a stud.

Opinions are cool and speculation about prospects is what SWDC is all about, but the absolute certainty and broad brush some of you state your opinions without any exceptions or caveats is mind-boggling.

If Bradford can get his arm healthy, he's worth a pick no later than 15 or 20th in the first round.

I would not be surprised to see a team like the Vikes, Redskins, Panthers, Buffalo, the Rams, SF and even Denver make serious plays to get into a position to draft Bradford, if he tests healthy.

I have no idea where the Pennington or Harrington comparisons come from.

It's very easy to compare prospects you don't like to huge busts like Harrington, but at the same point in his college career, no one could tell Harrington didn't have the mental game to excel in the pros. Same deal with Carr to a lesser degree.

I'd roll the dice on Bradford, he's got too many outstanding attributes and minor question marks to his game, and see if he's got game.
Brady is known across the league as having great pocket presence and having a knack for avoiding the rush even though he's not a great athlete. Same with Matt Ryan.

Why should I believe Bradford has a strong arm when all his throws are shorter than 15 yards? I remember Bradford as a freshman with Malcolm Kelly and he threw one deep ball over Randy Phillips' head. That doesn't change the fact that his arm strength is well below-average. Arm strength, however, is merely one of the many reasons why I'd avoid Bradford (and McCoy and Tebow) like the plague.

Tebow definitely has enough arm strength to be a pro QB. Most of the questions regarding Tebow stem from his offense and what it requires of him. Tebow is the only QB of the 3 (McCoy/Bradford being the others) that has long-term upside and potential imo. I would take a shot at Tebow in the mid-rounds. McCoy and Bradford....not so much.

I agree that it can be frustrating how people state their opinions with certainty. Obviously I don't know that these guys will bust, but I'm pretty damn sure and confident.

I don't what "outstanding attributes" you're referring to with Bradford, other than his uncanny ability run OU's simple spread offense.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4583332

Please enter the draft and please fall to Minnesota.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Sam "Pennington" :(
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Everyone sees this injury as causing him the top pick and loads of money...is that such a bad thing? Sure if he falls, he loses a a large sum of money, but the pressure, hype, and expectations are also gone.

Also, he falls to a better team, sits on the bench for a few years, and starts when he is fully ready (Aaron Rodgers anyone?). It looks bad now, but could be the best thing for him in the long run. Idk, just a thought.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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Everyone sees this injury as causing him the top pick and loads of money...is that such a bad thing? Sure if he falls, he loses a a large sum of money, but the pressure, hype, and expectations are also gone.

Also, he falls to a better team, sits on the bench for a few years, and starts when he is fully ready (Aaron Rodgers anyone?). It looks bad now, but could be the best thing for him in the long run. Idk, just a thought.
I couldn't agree more. Teams picking later in the draft are more likely to have a stronger supporting cast to help a young QB.
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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Posted by Big Banger
Sneed is by far the most talented QB that could be in next years class. From all the QBs I've seen, it's not close. He has more potential than just about everyone else. With that said, he's not anywhere near the level of Mark Sanchez, but he is going to get a lot better.

If this is an example of your ability to assess QB's, I suggest you take up another hobby. Snead will be lucky to get drafted higher than round 5 if at all. He has no pocket presence, folds under any pressure, panics in the pocket with a completion average that suggest he has about as much pro potential for a NFL career at QB as you do as a talent appraiser.
I cannot believe people actually take you seriously.
Gee, last year you predicted Maualuga's fall to round 2, brilliant prediction, too bad you were dead wrong about his talent level seeing as he is starting on opening day as a rookie for the much improved Cincy defense something only 22-26% of first rounders ever do in their rookie season.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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I'm laughing at someone saying Bradford will never be a pro QB and can't throw down the field. I've seen him make plenty of throws down the field, yet most throws, like all QB's throws, are in the short to mid range.
For some reason people think half of his throws should be down the field.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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Posted by Big Banger
Sneed is by far the most talented QB that could be in next years class. From all the QBs I've seen, it's not close. He has more potential than just about everyone else. With that said, he's not anywhere near the level of Mark Sanchez, but he is going to get a lot better.

If this is an example of your ability to assess QB's, I suggest you take up another hobby. Snead will be lucky to get drafted higher than round 5 if at all. He has no pocket presence, folds under any pressure, panics in the pocket with a completion average that suggest he has about as much pro potential for a NFL career at QB as you do as a talent appraiser.
I cannot believe people actually take you seriously.
Gee, last year you predicted Maualuga's fall to round 2, brilliant prediction, too bad you were dead wrong about his talent level seeing as he is starting on opening day as a rookie for the much improved Cincy defense something only 22-26% of first rounders ever do in their rookie season.
I've never read so much junk in my life. A genius in his own mind.
How old is that quote of Sneed?

I had Sanchez 7th overall. If you look hard enough, I have also said Stafford was head and shoulders, "head and shoulders," a better prospect than Mark Sanchez... which makes Sneed... what? A mid to late first rounder? Potentially? I say potentially because I probably said that before the season started, basing my information off of a half of year he played in college. I said he's the most talented QB in the country going into the season... wow... is that the worst comment I've made? You had to look that hard? To find that?


And just to clear something up, I never predicted Rey would be a second round pick... I said he was playing like one, which he was. And at that time, he was ridiculously overrated... a top 10 prospect?? No. He certainly wasn't. You could also quote me where I said, he ended up getting so much bashing and so much hate that he actually became underrated. He has done nothing to surprise me in the NFL... good or bad. The Bengals have a very good defense, so he has gone into a very good situation. The Bengals defense isn't much improved because Rey is there if that's what you're implying. Odell Thurman was an excellent prospect... a top 15 talent IMO, but he had some issues (off the field) that were incredibly apparent. If you jumped to conclusions of him based on 5 or 6 games as a rookie, don't you think you'd look little bit foolish now? Turns out, he wasn't even worth the second round pick he ended up being. Let's see Rey turn into an elite player before we start calling him more than he is. And in that very thread you are referring to I also said this:

Quote:
I think he's a first round prospect. A late first round prospect, but in the top 10? The Top 5 like everyone seems to think? Just don't see it.
I know its hard for some people to understand someone when they look at prospect as if they were anyone else (from a completely neutral perspective). Rey had flaws in his game there were not indicative of a top 10 prospect. He's a good LB, a good LB that I'd take in round 1, which is a compliment. I know you see that as me thinking that I thought he absolutely sucks and he can't play, but you should try to understand that you are looking at him from a very biased perspective. No matter what kind of information I gave to support my feelings toward him, you were going to disagree because I made the ghastly and appalling notion that he wasn't playing well. (Scoffs) How dare I? I also went on to say this in that same thread:

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I'm not saying Rey is a bad player. You can't look at my post and logically come up with that answer. I'VE CALLED THE GUY A FIRST ROUND PICK!!!!! I like a lot of things he does. He has skills, but there are more talented players in the draft. Rey will be a good football player. I don't think he'll be great.
The people that make the most absurd comments are the ones that will dismiss anything anyone else says that is critical of a player they like. You like Bradford, I don't, you are going to instantly hate/disagree anything I say, because you feel so strongly about him... yet you wont give any kind of support to back up your reasoning for liking him... you resort to petty insults, which anyone can do.
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Old 10-23-2009, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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The people that make the most absurd comments are the ones that will dismiss anything anyone else says that is critical of a player they like. You like Bradford, I don't, you are going to instantly hate/disagree anything I say, because you feel so strongly about him... yet you wont give any kind of support to back up your reasoning for liking him... you resort to petty insults, which anyone can do.
I don't love or hate Bradford, so that argument won't help you. QB's are a tough breed to judge even by pro scouts and GM's, hence the 50% failure rate for 1st round QB's. I do know that the post season makes or breaks QB prospects not the regular season. When the Bradford's, Tebow's and McCoy enter the post season it won't matter what system they came from, they will have to perform in a pro set as soon as the Senior Bowl practices start until their private workouts end. If they show scouts GM's and HC's that they have what it takes and can adjust to a pro set, they jump up draft boards, Rivers and Sanchez are good examples, if they don't perform well in a pro set, they will fall quite far, Quinn was a good example of this. Actually, it doesn't matter what system you come from in college, the post season will determine your fate no matter what position you play and even then the draft is at best a crap shoot because judging mental toughness under duress isn't possible to assess.
The Bradford's, Tebow's and McCoys have question marks, so what, it doesn't matter at this stage of the draft process. Peyton Manning, Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw, etc. etc. etc., all had question marks based on their regular season play. Every prospect has question marks!!! The adjustment to pro ball is immense, some do it easily, some cannot manage it and unfortunately there is no guarantee with any pick that any prospect is sure to succeed or fail.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:13 AM    (permalink
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You're just f**king stupid, and I don't care if this gets me banned. You are the biggest idiot I have ran across this board. Sam Bradford is a QB in the NFL. He may not be a starting QB, but he will make an NFL roster for several years. It is foolish you think he is Jason White. Jason White played on dummy knees for 3 years. Everyone knows he isn't an NFL QB.
Well its not like you have anything to lose anyways... You're probably an old poster.

I think that Bradford will enter the draft and be a late 1st early 2nd. I don't think he will be starting for a few years, however. I would be thrilled if the Vikings drafted him. Its been a long time since they have picked a QB with a top pick. I wouldn't mind it at all.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:32 AM    (permalink
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I love how in the same post ETK says Bradford will never be a starting QB and then says that he has a ceiling of Chad Pennington, who just so happens to be/have been a starting QB.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Old 10-23-2009, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Bradford is not going to be as good as Chad Pennington. You're talking about a Top 3-5 QB in the NFL prior to injuring his shoulder. Pennington might be the most accurate and efficient NFL QB I've seen. It's amazing the way people bash Pennington... Dude has always won games and made his team better when healthy (even post-shoulder problems).
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Bradford is not going to be as good as Chad Pennington. You're talking about a Top 3-5 QB in the NFL prior to injuring his shoulder. Pennington might be the most accurate and efficient NFL QB I've seen. It's amazing the way people bash Pennington... Dude has always won games and made his team better when healthy (even post-shoulder problems).
Pennington was NEVER a top 5 QB at any point in his career. He's always been a very intelligent, efficient QB who maxed out his physical tools, and a very capable starter. What's most impressive about Pennington is his exceptional career completion percentage (66%).
Matter of fact, I'm not going to bang too hard on Pennington, really his only major drawback was his lack of arm strength and injuries.

Just from the eye test, IMO Bradford looks like a stronger guy in the upper body with a better ability to get the ball downfield. It's just that when folks compare a prospect's arm strength to Pennington, who's widely assumed to have one of the weaker arms in the game, it's an indirect way of saying a college player has a poor arm, which I don't feel at all about Bradford.

Personally, I think Bradford's arm is every bit the equal of Matt Ryan, for what it's worth.

Besides, once the ball is on the opponent's side of the 50 yard line, I have no doubt Bradford is more than capable of throwing strikes to the endzone, which is all the arm strength a good QB needs anyway.

IamCanadian, you last post was right on point.

And BigBanger, why not do an analysis of those prospects you think are the F'in TRUTH and will rock in the NFL??

Just saying, to balance it out.;)
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Bradford is not going to be as good as Chad Pennington. You're talking about a Top 3-5 QB in the NFL prior to injuring his shoulder.
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